Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

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JasonC
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Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by JasonC » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:22 pm

I'm on a Rudnev kick, because his stuff is working better than the OTW that I burned out on long ago. In today's act of heresy, I'm questioning whether I should be thrusting my hand farther into the handle than VF taught.

VF's doctrine was to rest the handle on "the hip of the hand," the bone I would axe-hand a brick with if I felt dumb enough to do so.

But am I right that Rudnev wants to you put the hand in even farther? Though it's not clear, I've got the impression that the handles cross the heel of his hand right in the middle, on the bone between the muscles at the base of the thumb (thenar eminence) and the chopping (hypothenar) muscles. Have I got that right?

I've tried snatching it like that and, though not especially comfortable, I can do it, but during the drop it's tricky to get the hand out fast enough to catch the handle only on fingers and not on bunched-up palm skin too.


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Shafpocalypse Now
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:11 pm

Rudnev is a relatively small man. Valery is a relatively large man.

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by JasonC » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:22 am

A post with "insertion" in the title and the first response doesn't have a GIF of tentacle porn or even a dildo? Is this still IGX?! Did everyone get abducted by UFOs and replaced with bots controlled by Baptists?

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Sangoma » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:15 pm

Rudnev's hand position at the top of the snatch is much deeper than what I was used to before consulting him. The idea is maximal relaxation of the forearm. You can experiment with the position yourself: inserting the wrist deeper achieves that. The result - less accumulated grip fatigue over many reps, so that this is not the limiting factor of the duration.
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by JasonC » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:25 pm

Thanks, I'm starting to get it. I found I had to open my hand more when I start the drop, and then I can catch the handle on the fingers instead of the palm.

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:25 pm

Did nobody read?

Rudnev and VFed are not saying different things. They both want you to use as little energy as possible when the kettlebell is inserted into the hand.

VFed is like 6'3". Rudnev is 5'5" maybe. VFed's hands are big, Rudnev's hands are normal. Both VFed and Rudnev are inserting as far as they need to to minimize hand fatigue.

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Sangoma » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 pm

I think the difference between VF and Rudnev is the former is a physically gifted specimen, while the latter - very high level athlete - had to figure out lots of detail and is also smaller. That's why I think he is more specific in his instruction, while for VF many things are a given.

It's going to sound sinister, but the first time Rudnev drew my attention to hand insertion was at my house, after I helped him translate his seminar in Sydney. I asked him to check my technique and it turned out that my snatch was completely out of whack, on every technical point. Inserting the hand his way at first was quite uncomfortable. Later on I got used to it and appreciated the significance.
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by SubClaw » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:14 am

Sangoma wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 pm
the first time Rudnev drew my attention to hand insertion was at my house
my snatch was completely out of whack
Inserting the hand his way at first was quite uncomfortable.
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by newguy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:30 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 pm
I think the difference between VF and Rudnev is the former is a physically gifted specimen, while the latter - very high level athlete - had to figure out lots of detail and is also smaller. That's why I think he is more specific in his instruction, while for VF many things are a given.
I spent two days training with VF. I really don't see any difference between what he taught me vs. what Rudnev is teaching. He taught me to get the handle off the palm, relax the hand, etc. etc.
"When I was little, my father was famous. He was the greatest samurai in the empire. And he was the Shogun's decapitator. He cut off the heads of a 131 Lords. It was a bad time for the empire."

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by newguy » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:32 pm

JasonC wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:25 pm
Thanks, I'm starting to get it. I found I had to open my hand more when I start the drop, and then I can catch the handle on the fingers instead of the palm.
I no way did VF teach to catch the handle on the palm. You caught/catch the corner of the handle with an "ok" type catch. The whole descent was to conserve energy and minimize skin damage/blisters.
"When I was little, my father was famous. He was the greatest samurai in the empire. And he was the Shogun's decapitator. He cut off the heads of a 131 Lords. It was a bad time for the empire."

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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Sangoma » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:50 pm

newguy wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:30 pm
Sangoma wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 pm
I think the difference between VF and Rudnev is the former is a physically gifted specimen, while the latter - very high level athlete - had to figure out lots of detail and is also smaller. That's why I think he is more specific in his instruction, while for VF many things are a given.
I spent two days training with VF. I really don't see any difference between what he taught me vs. what Rudnev is teaching. He taught me to get the handle off the palm, relax the hand, etc. etc.
I don't really know the technique VF taught, so here you go. Grip is the first thing to give out, so it makes sense to take the load off it as much as possible.
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:57 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:14 am
Sangoma wrote:
Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:56 pm
the first time Rudnev drew my attention to hand insertion was at my house
my snatch was completely out of whack
Inserting the hand his way at first was quite uncomfortable.
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:11 am

I did say it's going to sound sinister. But, man, as gay as kettlebells can be I haven't come across anything gayer than BJJ. The amount of tight body contact, including with the crotch, is not comparable to any other... aktivitee ... And I have to confess... I am enjoying it... Oh, God, AM I GAY???!!!
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Re: Insertion into handle: Rudnev vs. OTW

Post by SubClaw » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:42 am

Sangoma wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:11 am
I did say it's going to sound sinister. But, man, as gay as kettlebells can be I haven't come across anything gayer than BJJ.
Olympic wrestling. By FAR.

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