Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

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aussie luke
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Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by aussie luke » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:13 am

Our third kid was born 8 weeks ago just as the Q&D book was coming out, so being curious and critical of what it seemed to be I bought it and started the program to see. Turned out I was right and IMO the swings and pushups plan = a lot of time spent not doing very much. The snatch plan appealed to me for its simplicity, with all the other stuff i have going on and lack of time etc.

I've been mixing the different snatch rep schemes 2-4 days a week, but cbf rolling a dice, nor can I tolerate doing more reps on one side than the other, so just been doing either 40 or 80 total reps.

On other days I've been doing one arm clean and press and pullup/chinup ladders of 2-3-5 as per one of Tom Furman's blog posts.

Currently get about 30 minutes most days to train in my lunchbreak in the office gym - all the equipment is shit so I brought my own 24kg GS bell in.

The short version is it's got me interested in doing kb snatches again, but i think the rep schemes and rest times are a big mess and a waste of time. Might as well do 5 reps on the minute for 20 minutes, or just do 10 sets of 10 with adequate rest, etc.

The other day after a snatch workout I did a couple of minutes of one arm jerks , 10 per side, and nearly fucken passed out - had totally forgotten how taxing they are, and it made me wonder - why don't I just do a few minutes of OA snatches and then a few minutes of OA jerks...?

Maybe other days just X minutes of OA LC...


What would a GS-style version of Q&D or the PM or S&S look like? ...when training for general fitness/leanness etc and not competition?

Sonnon's OALC plan? Have always seen Fedorenko say use one arm only unless training to compete.

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:21 am

Why do you need a program? Showing up a 1/2 hour a day and doing what you're doing is great. Try it for 4-6 weeks, you're not going to get dick cancer by not following a program.

Congrats on your baby.

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by aussie luke » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:38 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:21 am
Why do you need a program? Showing up a 1/2 hour a day and doing what you're doing is great. Try it for 4-6 weeks, you're not going to get dick cancer by not following a program.

Congrats on your baby.
Thanks

Guess I just mean some guidelines - like with S&S or Q&D of how a simple GS-based workout would look

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by JohnDoe » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:24 pm

I'm no GS-er, but I am an out of shape father of two, so congrats. I'm doing 300 GS swings a day @ 53. 10/20/30/40 to warm up, then 3x50. I'm detrained and short on time, but it feels good. Especially after having done so many hard swings, GS just seems more natural. Going to go up a bell size after this week and drop the daily reps to 200 or 250 and build back up.

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Sangoma
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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Sangoma » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:04 am

Q&D is a variation of HIIT and has a place in a training program as such. Damn nice illustration below.
HIIT picture.jpg
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Last edited by Sangoma on Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Sangoma » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am

I personally like the idea of A+A training scheme. I can't afford doing it on top of BJJ, the volume will kill me, unfortunately. What I would do though is to add variety - in addition to a set of 5 on the minute I would do, say a double cluster (5 reps, 15 seconds rest, 5 reps, then long rest), change KB weight in different sets, do more reps some sets etc. In other words, you can mix Q&D into an A+A workout.

I also like long snatch sets with frequent hand switch. At some time got to 240 reps with 20 kg. Infrequently, as it fucks up the hands, but it is a nice workout.
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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by aussie luke » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:57 am

Sangoma wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am
I personally like the idea of A+A training scheme. I can't afford doing it on top of BJJ, the volume will kill me, unfortunately. What I would do though is to add variety - in addition to a set of 5 on the minute I would do, say a double cluster (5 reps, 15 seconds rest, 5 reps, then long rest), change KB weight in different sets, do more reps some sets etc. In other words, you can mix Q&D into an A+A workout.

I also like long snatch sets with frequent hand switch. At some time got to 240 reps with 20 kg. Infrequently, as it fucks up the hands, but it is a nice workout.
during the 6 weeks or so I've been doing this Q&D snatch thing, a couple of times I just couldn't be bothered with the stupid rep scheme and just did 20 minutes of the A+A thing - 5 reps on the minute, switching hands each minute - it's more reps in the same time with less fuss and less fatigue - I really don't see how it can be less effective - probably the opposite

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by SubClaw » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:22 am

Sangoma wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am
I personally like the idea of A+A training scheme. I can't afford doing it on top of BJJ, the volume will kill me, unfortunately. What I would do though is to add variety - in addition to a set of 5 on the minute I would do, say a double cluster (5 reps, 15 seconds rest, 5 reps, then long rest), change KB weight in different sets, do more reps some sets etc. In other words, you can mix Q&D into an A+A workout.

I also like long snatch sets with frequent hand switch. At some time got to 240 reps with 20 kg. Infrequently, as it fucks up the hands, but it is a nice workout.
Nowadays, I find myself leaning more and more towards any kind of A+A training (between one and five reps, on the minute, for fifteen, may twenty minutes).

How many total reps would be a nice goal to achieve before bumping the load? Would it be advisable to shorten the rest periods (sixty seconds, forty five seconds, thirty seconds and, finally, fifteen seconds) or that would mean entering the metcon territory?

I’m talking about using double KBs, for both grinds and ballistics.

Any insight would be most welcome.

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Hanglow Joe » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:05 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:22 am
Sangoma wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:08 am
I personally like the idea of A+A training scheme. I can't afford doing it on top of BJJ, the volume will kill me, unfortunately. What I would do though is to add variety - in addition to a set of 5 on the minute I would do, say a double cluster (5 reps, 15 seconds rest, 5 reps, then long rest), change KB weight in different sets, do more reps some sets etc. In other words, you can mix Q&D into an A+A workout.

I also like long snatch sets with frequent hand switch. At some time got to 240 reps with 20 kg. Infrequently, as it fucks up the hands, but it is a nice workout.
Nowadays, I find myself leaning more and more towards any kind of A+A training (between one and five reps, on the minute, for fifteen, may twenty minutes).

How many total reps would be a nice goal to achieve before bumping the load? Would it be advisable to shorten the rest periods (sixty seconds, forty five seconds, thirty seconds and, finally, fifteen seconds) or that would mean entering the metcon territory?

I’m talking about using double KBs, for both grinds and ballistics.

Any insight would be most welcome.
You could bastardize Escalated Density Training for 15-20 minutes. Sets of 2 every minute on the minute for a press/row, squat swing combo. When it gets easy up the reps to 3. Maybe you do 10 sets of 3, 10 sets of 2. Reverse lunge/double snatch and Press/pullups are good for this as well.

With doubles, any rep scheme that goes over 25+ for grinds is good, Ballistics, 50-75

I can't play beat the clock anymore with grinds. By the end of the first week, I'll have popped my sacrum and need to go to the chiropractor. High rep snatching over 200 is a recipe for blisters and tennis elbow.

Still prefer METCON

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by JohnDoe » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:22 pm

That's similar to what Mike Caviston does for one level of his indoor rower workouts. I've always thought about it for KBs. On the erg you add strokes here and there in the same 60', which raises your average stroke rate/minute (and thus, the distance travelled) over a period of months. For KBs, you'd add reps here and there, like 50/20, but use average reps/minute as a measure of intensity. I'm planning on trying it with GS swings in a month or two.

Now that I think about it. We're just doing 50/20, but with some other number and time. Bryce came up with some good stuff.

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Sangoma » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:22 am

Regarding throwing dice, a question was asked on SF forum, tongue in cheek, for advice as to which brand of dice is best for Q&D. Not surprisingly, advice has been given.
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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by SubClaw » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:47 am

Sangoma wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:22 am
Regarding throwing dice, a question was asked on SF forum, tongue in cheek, for advice as to which brand of dice is best for Q&D. Not surprisingly, advice has been given.
That Damiola guy is an asshole. :finga:

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Re: Q&D vs basic GS for fitness?

Post by Sangoma » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 am

SubClaw wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:47 am
Sangoma wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:22 am
Regarding throwing dice, a question was asked on SF forum, tongue in cheek, for advice as to which brand of dice is best for Q&D. Not surprisingly, advice has been given.
That Damiola guy is an asshole. :finga:
:yawinkle:
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