Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

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Fat Cat
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:55 pm

Soup, you know your body so take everything I say with a grain of salt but here's my thought: you do too much lower back stretching and mobility. If anything you should consider strengthening your lower back with a few deadlifts or swings, and stretching your UPPER back. Jiu-Jitsu already incorporates a ton of lower back movement, you could be compounding the issue by doing yoga and mobility, doing more of what you already have too much of. Just a thought but I see this over and over again with guys who are on the BJJ-and-yoga train: hypermobile lower back, but poor thoracic flexibility, leading to back pain. I call it "Rickson Syndrome".
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:39 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Soup, you know your body so take everything I say with a grain of salt but here's my thought: you do too much lower back stretching and mobility. If anything you should consider strengthening your lower back with a few deadlifts or swings, and stretching your UPPER back. Jiu-Jitsu already incorporates a ton of lower back movement, you could be compounding the issue by doing yoga and mobility, doing more of what you already have too much of. Just a thought but I see this over and over again with guys who are on the BJJ-and-yoga train: hypermobile lower back, but poor thoracic flexibility, leading to back pain. I call it "Rickson Syndrome".
Funny you should mention that Fats.
I have access to the college weight room here and was thinking about adding a super minimalist routine of trap bar deads, presses and pullups into the mix and creating more of a distinction in the types of training that I do i.e., minimalist strength work, jiujitsu, cardio, mobility, qigong and yoga, etc. I have been working my t-spine a lot and have seen massive improvement. During qigong this morning during a rotation, I had such improved ROM that it startled me. Not that your insight is off by any means, additional upper back work is always a good thing. I do a lot of general back work including upper back stuff, but your opinion is always welcome here and is greatly appreciated.
Last edited by Soupbone on Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Holland Oates » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:43 pm

BD and I were discussing adding some barbell work in. I was thinking something akin to PTTP using deadlifts and presses with some pull ups.

I've lucked into upper back flexibility with my kettle training so considering Fat's post I'm accidentally doing something right.

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Dunn » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:09 pm

Good thoughts Fats, Soup, and EZ.

Hope the back issue gets fixed by the strength work.

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by nafod » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:19 pm

Soupbone wrote:2014.07.19

4 hour Commando Krav Maga seminar. AWESOME! The gun and knife stuff was cool. The unarmed stuff was just like bjj.

And I got my black belt in Brazilian jiujitsu today.

One of the proudest moments in my life.

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:10 pm

Soupbone wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:Soup, you know your body so take everything I say with a grain of salt but here's my thought: you do too much lower back stretching and mobility. If anything you should consider strengthening your lower back with a few deadlifts or swings, and stretching your UPPER back. Jiu-Jitsu already incorporates a ton of lower back movement, you could be compounding the issue by doing yoga and mobility, doing more of what you already have too much of. Just a thought but I see this over and over again with guys who are on the BJJ-and-yoga train: hypermobile lower back, but poor thoracic flexibility, leading to back pain. I call it "Rickson Syndrome".
Funny you should mention that Fats.
I have access to the college weight room here and was thinking about adding a super minimalist routine of trap bar deads, presses and pullups into the mix and creating more of a distinction in the types of training that I do i.e., minimalist strength work, jiujitsu, cardio, mobility, qigong and yoga, etc. I have been working my t-spine a lot and have seen massive improvement. During qigong this morning during a rotation, I had such improved ROM that it startled me. Not that your insight is off by any means, additional upper back work is always a good thing. I do a lot of general back work including upper back stuff, but your opinion is always welcome here and is greatly appreciated.
Aloha Soup, again my observations are based on two things: (i) general experience with grapplers, and (ii) your training log. If upper back is not an issue, it's not an issue, but something is causing your back pain. One thing to consider is that BJJ is anterior chain dominant. It is equivalent to, and in addition to, the hours you already spend sitting down. Exacerbating the problem further, most programs which claim to train BJJ attributes, such as Ginastica Natural and yoga, include even more similar patterns. The result is a weak posterior chain and lower back pain. The conclusion I draw from this is that it is important to focus on the muscles BJJ doesn't use instead of movements which try to mirror BJJ. Rickson is a classic example, in that he has done a huge amount of jiu-jitsu and yoga, but has a bad back. In contrast, look at traditional training of kushti wrestlers: all extensor work (e.g., dands and bethaks, clubs too if you think about it) which complement the flexor work of wrestling.

IMHO, the correct way to exercise is in complement and contrast to the work you already do in BJJ. Sorry for crowding your log, professor.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by TomFurman » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:26 am

Aloha Soup, again my observations are based on two things: (i) general experience with grapplers, and (ii) your training log. If upper back is not an issue, it's not an issue, but something is causing your back pain. One thing to consider is that BJJ is anterior chain dominant. It is equivalent to, and in addition to, the hours you already spend sitting down. Exacerbating the problem further, most programs which claim to train BJJ attributes, such as Ginastica Natural and yoga, include even more similar patterns. The result is a weak posterior chain and lower back pain. The conclusion I draw from this is that it is important to focus on the muscles BJJ doesn't use instead of movements which try to mirror BJJ. Rickson is a classic example, in that he has done a huge amount of jiu-jitsu and yoga, but has a bad back. In contrast, look at traditional training of kushti wrestlers: all extensor work (e.g., dands and bethaks, clubs too if you think about it) which complement the flexor work of wrestling.

IMHO, the correct way to exercise is in complement and contrast to the work you already do in BJJ. Sorry for crowding your log, professor.
Very solid observation and I agree with this 100%. Anyone I privately coach who is doing BJJ is getting lots of extensor work. Great call, Makena.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:25 am

Fat Cat wrote: Sorry for crowding your log, professor.
No apologies necessary, this is exactly the sort of enlightened dialogue that I want in my log. Any insight is welcome! Thanks again.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:38 pm

2014.08.13

No bjj last night due to our College President's Convocation.

Did a very minimalist routine after some mobility.

In circuit fashion:

Swings x10 w/32k
Presses 5+5 w/24k
Pullups x8 +10#

Did 4 circuits

Followed by power wheel rollouts and CoC gripper work.

Stretched the hell out of my upper back.
10:00 of vipassana

Not too shabby.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:42 am

Been a super busy couple of days and I have fallen behind on my logging. Had to put my truck in the shop for some work as well as prepping for the students move-in day for the fall semester, which is today.

2014.08.14

open mat and professor's no gi class- sparred for an hour no gi then it was all about footlocks and toeholds, both attacking and defending.

2014.08.15

mobility and a basic PTTP circuit- deadlifts, presses, weighted pullups; followed by the 4HB myotatic crunch and cat vomit exercise for 2 sets apiece. Hard stretch to follow.

2014.08.16

2 hours of bjj and judo. What a cool experience. Our judo class was lead by the sempai who ran the club that I learned judo at in the late 70's and early 80's. He also gave me some tricks to finally figuring out a kouchi gari, a super cool way to hit de-ashi and a new spin on tani-otoshi. It will be something I never forget. I also got to do some matwork with him and he was not prepared for the differences in the ground work between bjj and judo. I have always said and will continue to say- Standing Judo + BJJ ground = Bad Mo Fo!

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:32 am

2014.08.18

Elliott Hulse bioenergetic charging and grounding stretching routine

10x10 kb cnp w/30 sec. rest b/w sets

Circuit:
5 batwings
10 superslow situps
8 pullups
5 cat vomits

Repeated 3 times

CoC grip work

Hard stretch

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:19 pm

2014.08.19

BJJ- open mat- rolled with several people that I haven't trained with in years. All of them tried to kill me, so it was an exercise in composure. Class was on half and deep half guard sweeps to a pass and back take that Travis Stevens used on Miyao at the Copa Podio. More sparring to follow and one of our black belts straight up made me his bitch. I was both nail and feathers.

2014.08.2014

Stretching, mobility and calisthenics for one hour.

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by TomFurman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:22 pm

Lots of people want to keep you humble. That's a good thing. It only makes you better.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:11 am

TomFurman wrote:Lots of people want to keep you humble. That's a good thing. It only makes you better.
This is the truth. I am humbled to be surrounded by hungry and technical teammates. I am also proud.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:08 am

2014.08.21

bjj- gave a private lesson during open mat to a hulking purple belt on side control escapes. Utilized material from Ryron Gracie, Saulo Riberio, Roy Harris and Roy Dean. We then put it together and pressure tested it in sparring situations. He said it was one of the best jiujitsu lessons he has ever had.
Professors class no gi-High crotch to outside single
Backstep pass to mounted kimura
Backstep pass to guillotine
Several rounds of sparring to follow.
Finished class with one set of 25 pullups. Had more reps in the bank.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by TomFurman » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:32 pm

Finished class with one set of 25 pullups. Had more reps in the bank.
Really, really, good pulling strength. Time to add some weight every third workout?
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:31 pm

TomFurman wrote:
Finished class with one set of 25 pullups. Had more reps in the bank.
Really, really, good pulling strength. Time to add some weight every third workout?
Yes sir. I believe that would be a good choice.

2014.08.22

Basic joint mobility and stretching warmup
Circuit:
Pushup+Renegade rows x10
Goblet Squats x10
Woodchopper situps x10
Power wheel rollout x5

Done 4 times

Followed by:
DB curls on one leg x10
Explosive pushup x10
Cat vomits x5

10:00 yoga/qigong

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:28 pm

25 pullups is diesel! Good for you man!
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:52 pm

Thanks Mak!

Been reading a ton of DJ threads. I have always appreciated his material. DJ, TF, Maxwell, etc. are guys that have "been there, done that, got the t-shirt, several sizes" and always emphasize several things: Training for life, Training for the long haul and Training like an athlete. I respond very well to their methods. Today's routine was an example:

Mobility: Banded dislocates, waist twister, windmill stick, stoney stretch

TGU w/16k-5:00

Circuit (done 3 times)
Weighted pullup w/25# in backpack x5
24k press 5+5
24k goblet squat x 8
24k swings 10/15/25
Farmers while wearing backpack 2 lengths of backyard
Spiderman crawl 1 length of backyard
Cross marching 1 length of backyard

2 sets of push up planks 1:[email protected]

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:03 pm

2014.08.26

BJJ-
Open mat with a wiry brown belt. I have discovered playing with a cool position lately: Half-cradle kimura. I have been playing with it and it offers some really great transitions. I discovered one with Ryan which was an armlock attack that lead straight to a kneebar. It was good exercise and fun to experiment.
Professor's class-
Sasae fake to turtle position
Half guard to calf crank, banana split, truck position calf crank, back take and choke
Back mount to twister
20 min. chess match roll with another blackbelt

Pullups after class 1x20; 1x10

2014.08.27

Digging a lot of DJ articles lately and did the Coyote Point Kettlebell Club workout and it was just what the doctor ordered. Strength, cardio and mobility in a nice mix.

Oss.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:10 pm

2014.08.28

Open mat- drilled technique and pressure tested some guard stuff with a hulking purple belt. We started off in closed guard and transitioned to double unders, then inserted either one or both butterfly hooks, transitioning to a grip that would threaten either sweep or armbar, back to center, shove the head either direction for omoplata, transition to butterfly or open guard and use Kit Dale's great white grip or Williams guard or in half guard figure four the arm and attack stuff from there. We drilled and sparred it.

No gi- No gi version of tai otoshi for the takedown
side control to papercutter choke
rolling backtake from backstep in half guard
Hard sparring.

2014.08.29
Big 5 pressing reset
plus
The Coyote Point Kettlebell Club Warmup-Doing this by itself and I think you would be OK.
3/2/1 kb cnp 16k, 24, 32 ss/ trx rows x10 for a couple of sets
Power wheel rollouts 2x5
Cat vomits 1 set

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:22 pm

2014.08.30

2 hours of jiujitsu and Judo:
Sasae fake to punch to turtle position.
Taking the back from turtle
Loop choke from turtle grip
Hard sparring
Had a shodan in judo as my partner for judo today. Class was pure footwork. and fun.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:59 pm

2014.09.01

Doing sets of swings, TGU and goblet squats between yoga and mobility movements for one hour. Strength+cardio+mobility+mindfulness = excellent workout.

2014.09.02

Listened to TF on the MM/SH podcast. I could listen to Tom for hours about his indonesian influences, the new book, Konig, Inosanto, mobility, etc. I wished that he would break down how he approaches mobility and more of his personal routine, but overall it was excellent.

Open mat- worked deficit sparring with actuary greg for an hour. I worked on escaping mounted chokes and the two collar choke from the back. Found out that my go to back escape was helping the guy transition to a bow and arrow choke. So I adjusted and have a much better escape now.
Advanced class- grip break to back take
Butterfly sweep
Failed butterfly sweep to mount escape
Specific training from butterfly
20 pullups

2014.09.03
Doing sets of swings between mobility moves, TGU, goblet squat, TRX stuff, groundwork. Did some deadlifts and weighted pushups and TRX plank rows. Finished up with some farmers walks and spiderman crawls. Good session.

Oss.
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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:40 pm

2014.09.04

2+ hours of jiujitsu followed by 2x10 pullups, which were just heavy to do. Got to train with a scrappy and wiry brown belt who said that training with me is the best learning experience he has had in jiujitsu. I was humbled and learned more from him. No gi was attacking from an outside single and a sweet series from closed guard- short arm scissor, elbow guillotine, butterfly sweep, omoplata to back take. Followed by several rounds of hard sparring.

2014.09.05

Variety is the spice of life workout-
Mobility work
Rubber band circuit
TRX circuit
Kettlebell circuit
Med ball circuit
Bosu ball circuit
Power wheel work including a crawl up the back yard. Holy crap that was hard! I need to do that more.

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Re: Jiujutsu mind, beginner's mind...

Post by Soupbone » Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:45 pm

2014.09.08

I am on call this week. No bjj for me. So it is time to switch gears. This should be fun.

Basic mobility and flexibility on the TRX for 15:00 (squat/pull, lunge/fly, rollout, warrior 3)

Atomic Pushup x10 ss/ hip press with abduction for 10- 3 sets
Rubber band push and pull - 3 sets
Double kb clean+front squat - 2 sets

Jump rope- 10:00

Stretch

Oss.
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