Joker

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Fat Cat
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Joker

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:54 pm

I only went to see it because it has Joachim Phoenix, one of my favorite actors. It turned out to be surprisingly good, if a bit exhausting to watch. Phoenix is pretty amazing in it, which is good because it's a slow burn character study where he evokes the most awkward moments of work of Andy Kaufman or the pure psychosis of Martin Sheen by turns. As a film it is most reminiscent of Scorsese's 1970s early 80s works, like Mean Streets, The King of Comedy, and most of all, Taxi Driver.

There are also a few moments which also offer new interpretations of the Bat-Universe.

4/5 meows

EDIT: I see a lot of criticism of the film for it's "muh social programs" messaging, and I think that's pretty legitimate, although I would expect nothing less from the luxury values left wing Hollyweird establishment.
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Re: Joker

Post by Bram » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:42 pm

Watched this last night and don't know how to review it from a 1-10 perspective.

Joaquin Phoenix destroys in this role, he's phenomenal.

But fuck, I found this movie just miserable to watch after about the 20 minute mark (where he does his first killing). It's so relentlessly miserable and oppressive. And continues to get more-so.

I talked to a few people and some opinions differed - some felt more sympathy towards the mentally unwell (which I did too), but felt it didn't glorify his transformation from whipping boy to vengeful force. I found that it did and made me think it was a socially irresponsible choice to make in an era of mass shootings (man finds purpose and meaning after murdering people).

It is noteworthy that the handful of people I talked to took so many different things from it. I would prefer to un-see it or to have skipped it. But now I can see that it's going to appeal a lot of different people (my co-worker thought it was one of the best films he's ever seen).
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Kazuya Mishima
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Re: Joker

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:36 pm

Saw this a week ago in Dallas while traveling for business.

The obvious centerpiece to this film is Joaquin and his tour de force character study of the Joker. Unfortunately, I believe that if you take him out of this film then what you are mainly left with is a cringe compilation. While it never left me uncomfortable, there was certainly a visceral response as you watched an unfortunate character take one misstep after another on top of the withering circumstances that he had to deal with.

What left me unfulfilled was the fact that this film was almost completely devoid of any clear protagonist/antagonist relationship. It tries to pull off the stunt of showing us characters that are so contradictory in their natures and motivations that we don't know who to love and who to hate, but what we are left with is just the stain of human ugliness. Of course, we all know that the Joker is the "villain" in this mythos, but the movie tries in every way to make us sympathetic due to his mental illness, the way he cares for his mother, his incessant bullying by his peers and the world at large, etc. In the end, this is all undone by his murderous rampage, and the way he finds meaning as an embodiment of physical force and violence. On the flip side, Thomas Wayne (the traditional hero in this mythos) is being thrust towards us as some sort of malevolent capitalist that we are supposed to hate for some wispy and ill-defined reasons that would certainly make sense to an Occupy Wall Street mindset, but are ultimately lost on the average viewer. Meanwhile, he is alternately painted as a loving father who gets his comeuppance in perhaps the most violent rendition we've seen of the Wayne family murder. Do I hope for his victory or long for his downfall...the movie leaves it up to me with very little evidence as to which side I should lean. The other supporting characters are just as much trapped in a quagmire of contradictions and opacity. Murray Franklin is gunned down on live television, but never really does anything that would make you hate him while actually serving as a voice of order and morality in the final moments. The bumbling cops doing their best to hunt down a subway vigilante and get a killer off of the street...they are foiled at every turn and succumb to the violence of the braying mob. You could go on and on with just about every major and supporting character in this film.

Where I really start to get negative about this film is that it presents a cavalcade of human detritus that would certainly make the most hardened nihilist nod in approval, and yet strives to beat us over the head with a social message that we are all somehow letting each other down while failing to show us anybody worth saving. As has been mentioned by reviewers who are far more insightful than me, the movie comes off as an infomercial for DEM PROGRAMZ. I have joked elsewhere that the Joaquer is soundly defeated in the sequel when Zazie Beetz writes a grant to get funding for the mental health programs that Arthur was dependent upon. He is taken down by a minority female social worker with a community college degree and a pocket full of neuroleptic medications. I could go on and on about this, but I think this sums it up nicely.

While Marvel and Disney have long ago succumbed to the need to beat us poor goys over the head with their stories of rainbow coalitions saving the world, I'm afraid that DC has gone full on Woketard with their latest offerings. Ruby Rose is running around playing Batfaggot on The CW, and we now have Arthur Fleck/Joaquer at the forefront of a movie that offers us so many obvious (((tropes))) that one can hardly keep count. Stronk black queenz, interracial romance (albeit imaginary), the scourge of WASPs ruining the world, inept policing, everybody but the rich is a victim, and we can save the world as long as we can GIT MUNNY FO DEM PROGRAMZ.

I'm sorry, but I just can't get behind this kind of trash. The fact that this thing resonates with so many young white males is just another data point along the slide into Turd World status. In the end, it won't inspire the kind of revolutionary thought and action that will change anything for the better. To the contrary, it will just provide justification for an entire generation of potential builders to resign themselves to their game consoles, virtual porn, and self medication with hard seltzers.

Fuck this movie.

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Re: Joker

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:33 pm

Always well written, Kaz. My advice is, for the sake of your physical well-being, DO NOT WATCH THE NEW WATCHMEN SERIES.
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Re: Joker

Post by Kazuya Mishima » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:26 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:33 pm
Always well written, Kaz. My advice is, for the sake of your physical well-being, DO NOT WATCH THE NEW WATCHMEN SERIES.
Oh, for sure...I'm not watching the castration of that franchise.

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Re: Joker

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:32 pm

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Re: Joker

Post by nafod » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:38 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:33 pm
Always well written, Kaz. My advice is, for the sake of your physical well-being, DO NOT WATCH THE NEW WATCHMEN SERIES.
Had to watch it after that.

In the classroom there was a poster about the anatomy of squids, and the later the falling squids. Had to see the whole episode at that point.

My wife didn’t know that the Tulsa riots were a real thing. I bet most people watching it didn’t, either.

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I didn't see that one coming.
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