Bag Gloves

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Bag Gloves

Post by Batboy2/75 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:41 pm

Plan on buy a pair of these.

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http://store.titleboxing.com/titleboxin ... loves.html

They've been highly recomended. I'll update the community once I've had them for a while.

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Post by Fat Cat » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:47 pm

Have you ever tried Reyes gloves? Not the bag ones, the actual boxing gloves?
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:01 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Have you ever tried Reyes gloves? Not the bag ones, the actual boxing gloves?
I've heard of them, but no I haven't used them.

The gym I go to uses ring side and Title bag & training (sparring gloves) gloves.

I'm new to this, but from what I've been told, having a good pair of bag gloves for the heavy bag and mits is a must. When I start sparring in a month or so, I'll buy a piar of training gloves.

I could use the gym's gloves, but what's the fun of practicing a sport if you don't buy the toys. Plus, it's probbably more hygenic if I use my own.

I'm considering the Rival bag gloves because they are supposed to wear like iron and fit extremely well.

If I don't go with the rival I'll go with a Ringside or Everlast Pro Bag gloves.

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Post by Trip » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:11 pm

BB 2/75 are you doing some western boxing now?

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Post by Batboy2/75 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:42 pm

Trip wrote:BB 2/75 are you doing some western boxing now?
I have been working with a trainer 2 days a week for the last 5 weeks or so.

I'm still a Hsing-i Guy, it's just that my formal MA knowledge before Hsing-I was limited & I only get to train with my Hisng-I teacher 2 to 4 times a month. This was causing a serious drag on developing fighting ability. So afer Talking things over with my Hsing-I teacher, we decided to add in some sports related MA that will help develop a base & also allow me to get in some sparring on various levels od intensity. I decided to take up Judo and Boxing because if they are taught correctly they follow internal priciples of body movement and power generation and will be easy to incorporate in to my hsing-I or visa versa.

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Post by Garm » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:45 pm

IMO, bag gloves and hand taping are counterproductive for folks who wish to use their mitts in an ungloved altercation if required. I only use them on the rough canvas bags that can skin your knuckles. Anyone should be able to work up the ability to bang most heavy bags without gloves or wraps, excepting the ones actually filled with sand and no padding, with rough surfaces, etc.

If you have to use them because the gym or sport mandates it, that's a different story. I like the Ringside jobs, because they are nice and light.
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Post by Fat Cat » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:45 pm

Edited upon request.
Last edited by Fat Cat on Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hagbard » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:52 pm

When I had a bag in my garage it was one of those vinyl johns. Started with gloves and wraps, then wraps only, then nothing. But then I was 17-18 and thought it was cool when I bled all over the bag and my hands ached for days.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:53 pm

Garm wrote:IMO, bag gloves and hand taping are counterproductive for folks who wish to use their mitts in an ungloved altercation if required. I only use them on the rough canvas bags that can skin your knuckles. Anyone should be able to work up the ability to bang most heavy bags without gloves or wraps, excepting the ones actually filled with sand and no padding, with rough surfaces, etc.

If you have to use them because the gym or sport mandates it, that's a different story. I like the Ringside jobs, because they are nice and light.
It's required where I'm training. I'd like to try some of these boxing smokers they have n the area. Also, I'm more concerned about mit work. Bag gloves will hold up much longer than training gloves. These fucking things are expensive if you want well built jobs.

Once I've developed a base of skill and knowledge, I'll start working on incorporating the Judo and boxing into a hsing-i frame work. At that point, I'll start to work on conditioning the hands so that the gloves and wraps won't be needed.

Hey Fat, no need to continue the fight with Garm here on my thread. You guys are doing just fine on the FS forum.

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Post by Fat Cat » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:01 pm

Sure thing Bats.
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Post by Garm » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:05 pm

There's a bunch of wrist and hand conditioning Gong in the Patterson-Black-McNeill Xingyi family. You should see if Cotter will show you some of these exercises and get you some liniment if he hasn't already. The nose figure-8s, sand/iron bag slapping, etc.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Sat Feb 04, 2006 12:15 am

Garm wrote:There's a bunch of wrist and hand conditioning Gong in the Patterson-Black-McNeill Xingyi family. You should see if Cotter will show you some of these exercises and get you some liniment if he hasn't already. The nose figure-8s, sand/iron bag slapping, etc.
I've seen some the exercises you're talking about.

One of the upsides and downside to the Hung I hsiang lineage, Tang Shou Tao, is the huge amount of material available. I have an 11 x 17 sheet of paper listing all of the forms, internal gong, and meditation practices. And this doesn't even cover everthing. As usual with the chinese, there seems to be forms, exercises, and practices that are not written down and are trasmitted to students on a need to know basis.

I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to master half of the available knowledge.

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Post by Batboy2/75 » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:25 pm

went ahead and ordered these.

http://store.everlastboxing.com/everlas ... loves.html

Training (sparring) Gloves are 16 oz gloves

http://store.everlastboxing.com/everlas ... loves.html

Bag Gloves are 12 oz gloves

Damn I love hobbies.

Hey Makena, I looked in the reyes gloves. Very pricy!

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Post by Batboy2/75 » Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:25 pm

Batboy2/75 wrote:went ahead and ordered these.

http://store.everlastboxing.com/everlas ... loves.html

Training (sparring) Gloves are 16 oz gloves

http://store.everlastboxing.com/everlas ... loves.html

Bag Gloves are 12 oz gloves

Damn I love hobbies.

Hey Makena, I looked in the reyes gloves. Very pricy!

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BB2/75
Change of plans- canceled the training glove order- I'm still getting the bag gloves.

Some guy on Craigslist.com was selling his boxing gear. I was able to pick up the some awsome training/sparring gloves. The dude had a pair of hardly used/almost new 16 oz Grant lace up sparring gloves. These things cost about $140 new w/ shipping. I picked them up for a cold $75.00. Sucker!

He has a headgear and groin protector, but I'm going to let him stew for a while in order to drive down the price.

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Post by bill fox » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:45 pm

Agree w/ Garm - if you plan on hitting someone - no gloves. I used to just wrap my hands as a comprimise - never got questioned at the gym.
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Post by Garm » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:07 pm

You'd have zero chance in Kyokushin if you spent a lot of training time working gloved. IMO, again, as long as the bag doesn't have a rough surface you don't need them. You can even hit the rough canvas bags hard without gloves or wraps as long as your hand doesn't scrape the bag during or after the hit, which is actually good training - all your force goes in, and you get some imediate punishment feedback if it doesn't. Anybody who bleeds a lot on the bag needs to concentrate on technique. Soreness, bruising, jams, and fractures are avoided via both conditioning and technical skill.

Can't do any of the above on rough bags with strikes that mandate any after-contact twist, screwing-in, etc., until after a very long period of conditioning, not recommended for typists, musicians, or others who have to use their hands for other things.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:44 pm

bill fox wrote:Agree w/ Garm - if you plan on hitting someone - no gloves. I used to just wrap my hands as a comprimise - never got questioned at the gym.
Really Bill,

What if this person was fighting in a tournament that mandates gloves?

I have my reasons for going to a Boxing trainer. The goal however is not to become a boxer.As of right now what I'm looking for is sparring partners. I unfortunately do not have any hsing-I sparring partners. Steve Cotter doesn't run a school & I only meet with him 2 to 4 times a months. So take the one years of Hsing-I training=fighting ability and trow it out the window. Boxing is nothing more than a train stop on my Hsing-I journey.

Bag & training Gloves are a trade off hand safety vs hand conditioning. As of right know my trainer requests that I use them while at his gym. I of course use only hand wraps or nothing at all while at home and practicing hsing-I strikes.

I do agree that if one wants to be involved in real world street altercations it would be wise to condition the hands. With that being said, this is a long term project. At a future date a switch will be flipped and I will work with Steve Cotter on hand conditioning and incorporating these external arts into a Hsing-I framework.

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Post by bill fox » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:26 pm

Batboy2/75 wrote:
bill fox wrote:Agree w/ Garm - if you plan on hitting someone - no gloves. I used to just wrap my hands as a comprimise - never got questioned at the gym.
Really Bill,

What if this person was fighting in a tournament that mandates gloves?

BB2/75
That's not "fighting".

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Post by Batboy2/75 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:37 pm

bill fox wrote:
Batboy2/75 wrote:
bill fox wrote:Agree w/ Garm - if you plan on hitting someone - no gloves. I used to just wrap my hands as a comprimise - never got questioned at the gym.
Really Bill,

What if this person was fighting in a tournament that mandates gloves?

BB2/75
That's not "fighting".

Bill
Sure thing Bill.

Next time I see a Soldier or Marine back from iraq I'll tell them that because they didn't duke it out bare fist they were not fighting. Fighting is a moving target and depends on the intent. I guess I'll tell the guys Rocky marciano put in the hospital they were saprring and that they were not in a real fight. I guess all them guys in pride and the UFC are just playing tag?

If I had to bet money on 100 fights involving Sport Combat practitioners (SAMBO, Judo, BJJ, Boxing etc) vs traditional MA (CMA, TKD, Karate) with thier bare fist & lethal techniques. Whith everything else being equal age, weight, etc. I would bet on the Sport Combatives practitioner every time.

Your arguement was used against Jigoro Kano when he formulated Judo. The Kodakan cleaned house when competeing with the traditional lethal ju jisu.The same can be said about BJJ.

The training methodolgies for Sports Cobatives is superior to most TMA training as it is practiced. Sports combatives get more ring or mat time sparring because the protective methods used in Boxing, Judo, BJJ, and Sambo allow it's practitioners to spar very frequently and without the injuries of TMA.

I should also say I'm not poo pooing TMA. I'm talking in general. A tradition CMA will be a force to be recond with, if his training, body conditioning, and his frequently of intelligently sparring was done intelligently. Unfortunately most TMA do not do this. Steve Cotter is the only TCMA I have met that lives up his billing.

A smart person will use the best of the old and the best of the new training techniques. Using bag gloves for mit work and some bag work is smart. Combining these type of workouts with traditional CMA hand conditioning and hitting the heavy bag or mits without hand protection is even smarter. poo pooing one or the other as not fighting is stupid.

Tim Cartmell said it best (I'm paraphrasing) "Why cross train? The guy that invented your style cross trained"

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Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:00 pm

Bats, you have to practice hitting bareknuckle if you want to be prepared to punch somebody bare knuckle. Boxers traditionally don't bother because they are training for the sport-specific task of fighting in the ring. Does the increased hand protection allow them to reduce hand injuries? Yes. Does it also make them more susceptible to hand injuries in a real fight? Absolutely.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:17 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:Bats, you have to practice hitting bareknuckle if you want to be prepared to punch somebody bare knuckle. Boxers traditionally don't bother because they are training for the sport-specific task of fighting in the ring. Does the increased hand protection allow them to reduce hand injuries? Yes. Does it also make them more susceptible to hand injuries in a real fight? Absolutely.
Stroy,

The problem here is that Bill , Garm, & you are doing a whle lot of assuming. I never argued that bag gloves were just fine, that hitting the heavy bag with bare hands was a waste of time, or that hand conditioning was not needed. I argued that there are situations were bag gloves would be a good idea.

Just so everyone is on the up and up I use bag gloves when training w/ my boxing trainer. When at home I use bare hands and sometimes hand wraps when practicing Hsing-I strikes. By mixing them both up, I get the best of both worlds.

Also, when I used the term bag gloves I'm refering to 10 oz or 12 oz gloves used for not just the heavy bag, but for mit work. When sparring with Boxers I will use 16 oz Training or Sparring gloves. When Saprring Hsing-i style i will do what ever Steve Cotter says to do. I have personnaly done light sparring without gloves with Steve & I have seen Steve at times use boxing gloves.

Also, it been quite some time since Chinese Kyoku fought without light MMA type gloves and head protectors. So I guess Steve Cotter is not a fighter?

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Post by Fat Cat » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:22 pm

It's better to do at least some of your work with gloves to spare your hands. Even with the 4 oz. MMA gloves I hit hard enough to jack up my hands.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:26 pm

Fat Cat wrote:It's better to do at least some of your work with gloves to spare your hands. Even with the 4 oz. MMA gloves I hit hard enough to jack up my hands.
What fairtex MMA Gloves did you buy?

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Post by Fat Cat » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:27 pm

Relson gave them to me. Then Rhalan decided I hit too hard. Now nobody lets me hit them, so I just do bag work.
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Post by Batboy2/75 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:29 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Relson gave them to me. Then Rhalan decided I hit too hard. Now nobody lets me hit them, so I just do bag work.
LOL.

How do you like them?

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