IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."

IGX "...overflowing with foulmouthed ignorance."
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:23 pm 
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So then what would be a good template for "well rounded" fitness?

How does this look

Weights/Strength Training - 2 days a week
Yoga/JM work - daily with 2 longer sessions per week
Cardio (walking, jogging, biking, swimming) - 3 times a week.

Adjusted as needed, for example taking strength up to 3 times a week with the cardio dropping down to 2.

For any of them you could rotate every three weeks. Go from three weeks of barbell/DB work to three weeks of clubbell, kettlebell work. Three weeks of "heavy" training to three weeks of bodybuilding.

Try to break out of the "set PR's" mindset and just lift well, adding weight every so often, over the years.

Go from three weeks of jogging to three weeks of swimming or biking. Once again, no records. Just move.
I don't think you could go wrong with that as a template.

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"I also think training like a Navy S.E.A.L. is stupid for the average person. I would say PT like an infantry unit, run, body weight stuff, hump a little, a little weights and enjoy life if you are not training for specifics." -tough old man


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:32 pm 
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I understand what you're saying, I think the frustration that most of us feel are that we aren't willing or able to find a local instructor (the closest one to me seems to be about 40 minutes away and I'm not willing/able to do that) and are overloaded with options as to how to begin. My comment about IGx endorsing one product was half tongue-in-cheek, but in presenting 30 options I think most of us are left just as confused and lost as if we were presented with no options. YRG's value is that is serves as a gateway into yoga that you can then branch off once you have tried out the basic stuff. But I completely understand what you're saying, so I just kind of threw a dart at one of the products that was mentioned. I figure it's better than nothing. We'll see.
I don't think the instructor part is that crucial as long as you do something that's traditional and simple or based on a high-level guy like Dr. Hu, that's also 100% understandable off a video.

If you just look at the strict definition of simple moving qigong in the YMAA books, and if you buy that definition, then just practice and don't quit. I have had another qigong guy, that I definitely know for a fact has good, proven abilities, give me the same definition.

Talking about qigong is messy. The fact is there are very old people that, if you go to some trouble to see them move, prove that there is something to it.

I do think it's really helpful to see a pro about standing to complement simple moving qigong.

Ping Micky for the Tu-Ky Lam article on standing. Pass it around.

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Last edited by ultracool on Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:36 pm 
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double d dykes.com

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:44 pm 
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People also need to realize that a big aspect of it can be clever joint mobility and dynamic stretching stuff that never occurred to you before. You can be a complete atheist about qi and get a hell of a lot out of it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:15 pm 
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Kitosho, FlowFIt was free, not sure if it still is, and you get plenty of benefits from that alone. Mak just posted yesterday or so a link to CC, so watch and put something together, I am sure you can look around for Qigong stuff and find enough to get you started for little to no $$$...there's so much free knowledge floating around, it just takes a little initiative and then a lot of sweat/patience

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:56 pm 
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I understand what you're saying, I think the frustration that most of us feel are that we aren't willing or able to find a local instructor (the closest one to me seems to be about 40 minutes away and I'm not willing/able to do that) and are overloaded with options as to how to begin. My comment about IGx endorsing one product was half tongue-in-cheek, but in presenting 30 options I think most of us are left just as confused and lost as if we were presented with no options. YRG's value is that is serves as a gateway into yoga that you can then branch off once you have tried out the basic stuff. But I completely understand what you're saying, so I just kind of threw a dart at one of the products that was mentioned. I figure it's better than nothing. We'll see.
I don't think the instructor part is that crucial as long as you do something that's traditional and simple or based on a high-level guy like Dr. Hu, that's also 100% understandable off a video.

If you just look at the strict definition of simple moving qigong in the YMAA books, and if you buy that definition, then just practice and don't quit. I have had another qigong guy, that I definitely know for a fact has good, proven abilities, give me the same definition.

Talking about qigong is messy. The fact is there are very old people that, if you go to some trouble to see them move, prove that there is something to it.

I do think it's really helpful to see a pro about standing to complement simple moving qigong.

Ping Micky for the Tu-Ky Lam article on standing. Pass it around.
For some reason I thought you wanted to start with standing then after a few months go into the moving qigong. That's how I perceived the progression from The Way of Energy and that's the way I am going about it. I am going to do standing for another month or so until I work up to 20-30 min. then start some moving ala Little Nine Heaven, DD 5 animals, the Cohen 100 Days dvd or the Flexibility Through Qigong (which looks really interesting and may suit my interests the best). I suppose I am mistaken? Or is it an either way kinda deal?

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Last edited by Mickey O'neil on Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:07 pm 
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This is the way I started:

20 minutes 8 brocades / 5 minutes standing x twice a week

+

40 minutes 8 brocades / 5 minutes standing x once a week

---

I'm no expert. That's just what I chose to do.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:01 pm 
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Not a damned thing wrong with what you said. See McCallum, Sipes, Arnold and a slew of other old school bodybuilders for supporting evidence.
I agree with this as well. What Mak said too. Don't forget the Blonde Bomber! That is a great site loaded with some great info.[/quote]

Yes, Draper's website is top notch and worth mentioning. I actually registered there recently. I don't know why, as I only post here and once in a very blue moon at Power & Bulk.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:12 pm 
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There's a book, "Joe X", that recommends a fitness program that is bodybuilding-like in its weighted exercise selection and classic steady state/interval training/hill climbing in its aerobics. The key is the very slow progression. Every two weeks, you select one exercise to progress on. The idea is that exercise should leave you feeling good when you're done, and the constant progress keeps you motivated. Soreness, accumulated fatigue and stress are minimal. The progression is slow but the point is time is on your side, with steady, accumulating gains over years. Over years you progress to be very strong without the "no pain, no gain" mentality.

I haven't tried it, but the idea appears sound for lifelong fitness. Given the spate of recent and reappearing injuries at my ripe old age of 46, I may just give it a go.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:03 am 
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I understand what you're saying, I think the frustration that most of us feel are that we aren't willing or able to find a local instructor (the closest one to me seems to be about 40 minutes away and I'm not willing/able to do that) and are overloaded with options as to how to begin. My comment about IGx endorsing one product was half tongue-in-cheek, but in presenting 30 options I think most of us are left just as confused and lost as if we were presented with no options. YRG's value is that is serves as a gateway into yoga that you can then branch off once you have tried out the basic stuff. But I completely understand what you're saying, so I just kind of threw a dart at one of the products that was mentioned. I figure it's better than nothing. We'll see.
I don't think the instructor part is that crucial as long as you do something that's traditional and simple or based on a high-level guy like Dr. Hu, that's also 100% understandable off a video.

If you just look at the strict definition of simple moving qigong in the YMAA books, and if you buy that definition, then just practice and don't quit. I have had another qigong guy, that I definitely know for a fact has good, proven abilities, give me the same definition.

Talking about qigong is messy. The fact is there are very old people that, if you go to some trouble to see them move, prove that there is something to it.

I do think it's really helpful to see a pro about standing to complement simple moving qigong.

Ping Micky for the Tu-Ky Lam article on standing. Pass it around.
For some reason I thought you wanted to start with standing then after a few months go into the moving qigong. That's how I perceived the progression from The Way of Energy and that's the way I am going about it. I am going to do standing for another month or so until I work up to 20-30 min. then start some moving ala Little Nine Heaven, DD 5 animals, the Cohen 100 Days dvd or the Flexibility Through Qigong (which looks really interesting and may suit my interests the best). I suppose I am mistaken? Or is it an either way kinda deal?
Mickey:

Unless you are being supervised by someone that you know is really good, there is no right or wrong on this.

I do think standing properly is a good idea.

The other thing to think about is the 8 brocades is documented to be real systematic in it's effect. I would trust Cotter's stuff implicitly. The other stuff might be really good but it isn't historically mapped out as well; not that this would make much difference. You have to dig around a lot to even think about stuff like this. Just find something to sick with.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:28 am 
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This is probably the best ever training thread .
Keep going!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Even though my head has been around the idea that one should do some prehab/ restoritive practices, such as Yoga, JM or Chi Bang your Gong, but as soon as I would feel better, back to the KBs, BBs and Jujutsu, stretching becomes a quick thing you do before and after a workout.

I cant act that way anymore, I am phaseing into 1-2 Yoga classes a week and doing about 5-15 minutes every day. (Got to do a few slautations after any hard jujutsu training.)
Doing 2-3 S&C workouts, mixing KBs, Bosu, BBs and some machines into the mix.

After about maybe 3 weeks of dorking with it a LITTLE on my own and 2 classes and I feel a big difference in less pain, movement and zI was getting better gurad passes and holding Rubber, closed and X-Guards like rubber man.

Yoga is my new hobby, got to get some Jump Stretch shit and some weighted attire next.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:02 pm 
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So where do you all plug hypertrophy into the mix? By which I mean lifting with higher reps, more sets, shorter rest, etc?
One of the classic "Biomarkers" is amt of muscle mass, so I think there's a place in there for straight up BBing.

With this in mind I am supposedly trying to change to doing stuff like the Ironman program that FC posted for about half of my barbell lifting year and then higher-tension lower-rep for the rest. The first 3 weeks were fine, the second I got felled by some fucking sinus infection, so the jury is still out.

Anyway, I'd be interested in whether you think you need some deliberate hypertrophy work in there or if you think that it's covered by KB, JM, etc.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:37 pm 
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Got out my copy of Keys to Progress to look up the "Fountain of Youth" program. The big emphasis is on staying lean and bringing up your conditioning:

Eat protein, vegetables, and fruits. And York supplements. Energol!

Lift three times per week with PHA-style circuit training.

"Vigorous social activities" -- swimming, tennis, hiking, dancing, etc.

Run five miles at least four times per week. Seems kind of high volume to me, but running had just been invented at the time, so McCallum was extremely enthusiastic about it.

He also mentions staying mentally active, sleeping, and getting your bodyweight as low as possible without losing muscle.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:03 pm 
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I think I'm beyond the need for anything more than incidental hypertrophy.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:01 pm 
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This is probably the best ever training thread .
Keep going!
Aren't you a OTW/AKC, CMS who happens to be a doctor? What are your thoughts as they pertain to this thread?

TIA!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:02 pm 
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I think I'm beyond the need for anything more than incidental hypertrophy.
I didn't state that very well. What I meant was, do you guys think that some specific attention to "hypertrophy" is useful in a long-term plan, or is the "loss of muscle mass" that is cited as an effect of aging just due to being sedentary, and is adequately combated by any sort of resistance exercise, be it BW programs, KBs, etc?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:20 pm 
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I see nothing wrong for someone to deliberately set aside a couple of training cycles with the sole purpose of adding quality muscle to their frame.

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Big, strong men (preferably in kilts) are my lesbian kryptonite~Jez
the right kind of male can make Jezzy's reproductive instinct overcome her preference for black vagina~Gary


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:53 pm 
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So where do you all plug hypertrophy into the mix? By which I mean lifting with higher reps, more sets, shorter rest, etc?
One of the classic "Biomarkers" is amt of muscle mass, so I think there's a place in there for straight up BBing.

With this in mind I am supposedly trying to change to doing stuff like the Ironman program that FC posted for about half of my barbell lifting year and then higher-tension lower-rep for the rest. The first 3 weeks were fine, the second I got felled by some fucking sinus infection, so the jury is still out.

Anyway, I'd be interested in whether you think you need some deliberate hypertrophy work in there or if you think that it's covered by KB, JM, etc.
I think a sensible approach is to build the muscle you need and then maintain it in your training. A lot of times an approach seems to be professed where you work on some muscles or train some aspect, say overhead pressing, and then neglect it to work on something else.

I'm kind of siding now with the approach of if it's important than do it at least weekly, barring a specific short cycle of strength work or peaking.

And some people don't need to do hypertrophy work, or at least don't need it for certain muscle groups, to keep a healthy amount of muscle on their bodies.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:57 am 
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People also need to realize that a big aspect of it can be clever joint mobility and dynamic stretching stuff that never occurred to you before. You can be a complete atheist about qi and get a hell of a lot out of it.
That's absolutely true. For instance, you could approach the 16 exercises in the Cartmell/Miller compilation "Xing Yi Nei Gong" as pure joint mobility and dynamic ROM and still get a hell of a lot out of it. That routine is practically a one-for-one analog to Pavel's 'Super Joints'.

And the (relatively) new "Liang Gong Shr Ba Fa" method popularized in Mainland China is almost pure joint mobility for at least 2/3rds of the program (then it branches off into organ health and meridian patting, etc).

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"I also think training like a Navy S.E.A.L. is stupid for the average person. I would say PT like an infantry unit, run, body weight stuff, hump a little, a little weights and enjoy life if you are not training for specifics." -tough old man


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:26 am 
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Quote:
This is probably the best ever training thread .
Keep going!
Aren't you a OTW/AKC, CMS who happens to be a doctor? What are your thoughts as they pertain to this thread?

TIA!
OTW/AKC ? don't think so. Don't you have to attend a cert or something? A CMS ? As official as your GSLevelwhatever, oh velociraptorous one. And , well, I have "made my numbers" recently , that would relegate the othernohairstyler to 2nd place - but it counts for absolutely f'all - if not for the fact that the last 5 years trainings & whatnot have revealed some truths to me about the so-called ageing process and what one should (or should not fear) as one surfs the wave to eventual oblivion. :sperm:

Having explored some of the byways alluded to in this thread (incl a spot of self-taught power Bikram) what is abundantly clear is that we all need some kind of antidote to forward stressful living patterns which accumulate as unwanted tension and will eventually negatively impact on quality of life. It doesn't really hit until you become ineligible for 18-35 kontiki holiday packages and the reflection in the mirror bears no resemblance to the uberstud of old.

There is no mystery to any of this but part of the midlife crisis is to enter the 2nd half of one's life with some positivity - not loathsome self destroying negativity about what vengeance mother nature appears to be wreaking on the increasingly frail , tight and sore frame.

Thus all that has been stated are valid methods of learning to overcome the stress response, and for some even introducing a kind of spiritual quality to their state of health.

Personally I am relieved to have emerged from the fire with bigger and better knowledges , and find trainings are now efficient and highly effective - giving me back most of the athleticism I had as a teenager. Admittedly with a few extra aches and pains which are largely scars of a life lived rather than existed. Now I know all about trigger points (and how to manage them) I do not fear the physical aspects of ageing. As has been mentioned , past 40 ( and before if not competing) training should be enjoyable and lifestyle enhancing , not a constant round of visits to therapists.

I detest doctors. They are for sick people. Many doctors view my rantings with suspicion. Like Andy , I don't get sick. Unlike Andy I don't use bands. Whatever works , one mans meat is another's poison blah blah. Personally I find achywhatsits are 1) convenient & 2) pretty efficient and used in a certain way (if for no other purpose than to simply maintain a perfect posture) provide me with a tough kernel around which the fruit of life matures :heart: . Kernel not core, because I hate that word also.

This thread is about admitting that on some planes , getting old sucks. A bit.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:23 am 
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Where would you place PTP with regards to long term health. It seems like something you could safely follow for a long time, particularly if you cycle in all the variations of the basic lifts and alternate it with RKC. Has anyone really messed themselves up with PTP.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:08 am 
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The idea of "putting it all together" always fascinated me, and I can only think of a couple of author's who really tried to do it in a way that interested me.

Check out Jan and Terry Todd's 1985 attempt: Lift Your Way to Youthful Fitness. I think my copy ran $6 including shipping. Somewhat dated, but tries to throw together the best stuff of the time: periodized lifting, heavyhands-ish power walking, and western style stretching ala Anderson.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... 579&sr=8-1

It's worth it for the pictures: Dr. Ivanov at 74, Bill Pearl at 53...many more.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:10 am 
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...........................This thread is about admitting that on some planes , getting old sucks. A bit.
Good post.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Proper use for yoga:

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