Jujutsu,Jiu Jitsu, Judo, BJJ = American Jujutsu

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Garm
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Post by Garm » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:58 pm

Dnyal, my boy will be old enough for his first .22 this summer, and a .410 for Dove hunting next year. First time I eat something my son killed will be a red letter day. IMO, modern MA's (weaponcraft) is where to spend most of your time with kids.
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Post by DARTH » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:58 pm

Bats,

Your training seems to be a conscience blending of cambat ranges ( a very Chinese outlook, but it could be Ranger pragmatisim) Between Hsing-I, Boxing and Judo. How are the diferent arts blending for you when just working attack and response type training?
Does one come out more than the others, is it just a situational blend-what happens happens, or is it WHAT THE FUCK YOU TALKING "BOUT DARTH?!!




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Post by cqc10 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:06 am

Garm wrote:Dnyal, my boy will be old enough for his first .22 this summer, and a .410 for Dove hunting next year. First time I eat something my son killed will be a red letter day. IMO, modern MA's (weaponcraft) is where to spend most of your time with kids.
True knowledge . . . no reason a 7 or 8 year old can't kill a few deer with a deer rifle, not to mention dove hunting, etc.

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DARTH
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Post by DARTH » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:25 am

Oh plenty of time will be with my heroes John Browning and Eugen Stoner and my boys.
That's cool, soon you and your son can stalk and kill game together, and that is a moment a boy will never forget. Killing an animal in front of your father is priceless.
I did not get to hunt with my Birth Father till I was 18. Shot a Doe from his stand, man I was 10 again for a moment.
Still, My son wont be able to pull a 45 when he's 16 and has a run in with Biff and the Boys, so he'll just have to snap an arm or 2, toss some asshole face first into the ground, and then make him scream " I'm a cocksucking faggot!" before walking off with Biff's bitch :-k :axe:




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Post by ___________ » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:26 am

Darth,

See Brandon "The Truth" Vera. That is next level shit right there. 2X All American Wrestler, Air Force Squad Wrestling, trains out of American Kickboxing Academy with Rob Kaman (baddest fucking kickboxer ever) and subbed a BJJ Black Belt in his last fight with a guiollitiene after striking the holy fucking shit out of him.

He's also a brown belt in GJJ.

This is the future, even "The Truth". I'll see if I can dig up his KO of Eilers. He hits Eilers with a head kick, knocking him down, and on the way down, follows up with a flying knee to the head. Brutal motherfucker.

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Post by Batboy2/75 » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:26 am

SITH COACH DARTH wrote:Bats,

Your training seems to be a conscience blending of cambat ranges ( a very Chinese outlook, but it could be Ranger pragmatisim) Between Hsing-I, Boxing and Judo. How are the diferent arts blending for you when just working attack and response type training?
Does one come out more than the others, is it just a situational blend-what happens happens, or is it WHAT THE FUCK YOU TALKING "BOUT DARTH?!!
As of right now My MA training is segmented & I have yet to pull everything together. Although I'd have to say I'm probably going to be at a point this fall where I'm going to have to blend all of this together. From stand up striking, the clinch, the knock down/throw, and ground action.

The good thing is that while practicing these ranges seperatly my mind and instincts are making the right connections. While boxing my instincts are kicking in at the correct time for executing elbows, low kicks, knees, head butts, knock downs and throws. This also happens durring judo randori. When practicing hsing-I I can see more applications for techniques or hidden techniques contained in the forms. I'm not saying I'm hell on wheels, but I can at least see the doors are beginning to open for me.

This fall I'm going to have to pull what i have so far together and do some MMA style sparring and training. Not to be a MMA fighter per say, but to use it as a full range sparring experience. After this I'll make a full circle and hopefully work with Steve to to incorporate this into Hsing-I training, sparring, and strategy.

Give me another 9 months and I'll be able to answer your question about how this all will meld together and works.

BTW- I seem to have a very hsing-I approach to Boxing. Every guy that I've sparred with says I have only direction, forward. I hate laying back and reacting. I'd much rather press the action, find a good angle, put them off balance, and attack.

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Post by Fat Cat » Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:21 pm

Marc wrote: See Brandon "The Truth" Vera. That is next level shit right there. 2X All American Wrestler, Air Force Squad Wrestling, trains out of American Kickboxing Academy with Rob Kaman (baddest fucking kickboxer ever) and subbed a BJJ Black Belt in his last fight with a guiollitiene after striking the holy fucking shit out of him.

He's also a brown belt in GJJ.
Marc, I remember his fight but I wasn't so impressed. I will got try to take another look. One thing is for sure: wrestling + jiujitsu = very hard to deal with.
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Post by ___________ » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:16 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Marc wrote: See Brandon "The Truth" Vera. That is next level shit right there. 2X All American Wrestler, Air Force Squad Wrestling, trains out of American Kickboxing Academy with Rob Kaman (baddest fucking kickboxer ever) and subbed a BJJ Black Belt in his last fight with a guiollitiene after striking the holy fucking shit out of him.

He's also a brown belt in GJJ.
Marc, I remember his fight but I wasn't so impressed. I will got try to take another look. One thing is for sure: wrestling + jiujitsu = very hard to deal with.
Even worse is Wrestling + Jits + K1 level kickboxing.

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Post by Hagbard » Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:35 pm

Marc wrote: I'll see if I can dig up his KO of Eilers. He hits Eilers with a head kick, knocking him down, and on the way down, follows up with a flying knee to the head. Brutal motherfucker.
I remember that one, that shit was SICK.
?

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Vera vs. Eilers

Post by grey » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:20 pm


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Post by TomFurman » Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:59 pm

Right behind the ear. Very effective Muay Thai.

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Post by Fat Cat » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:14 pm

I dunno. He didn't look that crisp to me, but you can't argue with the effect. I'll pay more attention to his fights from now on and develop an opinion.
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Post by Mags » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:46 am

Hey Darth,
Well, ya asked for the .02 of the lurking Jujutsukas sooo here goes... cross training in martial arts is essential to becoming a good fighter but I think there's a fine line. You have to start with a good base in something before you start branching out, remember the old saying- Jack of all trades, master of none. There's one or two of our dojo mates who I can recall were more interested in branching out before they made rank. They didn't become good at anything, and their jujutsu suffered for it. We can learn something from a great many martial arts out there, but we also have to understand that what fits one person may not work well for another. I think that's one of the greatest things about the diversity of martial arts. Jujutsu is an excellent art, and it encompasses a lot of things. We've got a lot of incredible cross training opportunities through our dojo and around the world. Glad to hear you're taking advantage of them.

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Post by Schlegel » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:09 am

Mags wrote:Hey Darth,
You have to start with a good base in something before you start branching out.

Totally agree. It amazes me when guys aren't even willing to put a measly 1, 2 or 3 years into an art.

No one expects to be a virtuoso musician in 6 months, for example.
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Mags
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Post by Mags » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:27 am

Precisely. But there are many people in the country who believe laying down some serious dough and six months in a martial arts school makes them Billy Badass, a legend in their own minds. The McDojo effect.

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DARTH
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Post by DARTH » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:52 pm

Mags,

I totally agree you need a base or root style, and crosstraing should be kept at a low level for the first few years of ones Martial Education, for the reasons you point out.
You were there from day one of my re education from a TKD/Kenpo/Polish Karate trained, deceint street fighter into a Jujutsuka. I shedded alot of my old movements and instincts to become a Jujutsuka, and for the first few years, it was all IYR, and what outside influence Native Bermudian, Bristol and Geoff brought into it.
When we started with the Wink crew, we learned alot, and were introduced to better entries vs. the blade and stick, the Full Contact stuff was very valuable, and the footwork and disarms feed into IYR nicely and what not, but it was also when I realized I trully was a Jujutsuka, as a few times, Sensei's teaching were suppirior, at least for me. ( You can take the boy out of Jujutsu, but you can never take Jujutsu out of the boy.)
But my point is more about blending stuff from the different styles of Jujutsu, as they are all related, I don't feel their would be the same problems as doing Muay Thai, Jujutsu and FMA right of the bat.
The BJJ entry into Juju gatmae is clearly better than IYRs, but the way we sink and secure (or just fucking snap through) the arm bar is better thasn what they do. Blend them both, and you have a hell of a Juju gatmae. It's the way they sink it that alowed me to escape all those armbars durring those matches at Dave's tournament, I don't escape our like that.
I am sinking in more of them lately, because I am using the BJJ way of setting it up and entering ( Pinch with the knees. Hint hint).
Small Circle is really good at capturing peoples limbs to make our Kote Giash, Sanku and Nikyu more effective. They are alos good at baiting you into shit.
I just see that there will be a point when this will branch into it's own style, just like Miyama Ryu, and IYR. We allready are a blended sytem, but it's a Combat Jujutsu/Judo/Aiki-Jujutsu blend. I see a spot for BJJ and Small Circle in there. Put in some Fight suit work and adrenaline dumping scenario training and serve as desired.

BTW, Great to have you here, Sis!
I look forward to showing you what I am getting at, you will be pleased my Mistress of Pain.




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Re: Jujutsu,Jiu Jitsu, Judo, BJJ = American Jujutsu

Post by Soupbone » Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:10 am

I know I am about 4 years late on this discussion and I dont know if people ever add stuff later to the nuggets section or not, but this is an excellent discussion. I parallel it alot to my education: Judo; Freestyle/Greco and later Shootwrestling; and now BJJ. A karate guy I trained with in the early days was also an Aikijujutsu guy and had the nastiest blend of boxing to wristlocks I have ever seen. I spend more of my time these days reading old WWII era judo books that still emphasized Atemi-waza and think that if one included this training along with the takedown/clinch emphasis of wrestling and the ground play of bjj = American Jujutsu badassness. If I have one critique of most bjj schools it is the total neglect of ukemi (breakfalls) and lack of emphasis on standup. Even guys like Roy Harris, Roy Dean and Oswaldo Alves incorporate wristlocks to a devastating effect. This is a lot to ponder and good shit to think about.

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