Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:24 pm

"Without obvious postures or techniques you will be effective, if you do make the mistake of posturing and posing you will be ineffective..." -- General Qi Jiguang, 16th c.

"The reason of postures in the MA is to facilitate transformations...forms contain fixed postures, but in actual practice there are no fixed postures. When applied they become fluid but still maintain their structural characteristics." -- Tang Shunzhi
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:27 pm

cqc10 wrote:Fat Cat has an encyclopedic knowledge of martial histories, styles, etc.
Fat Cat is a near sighted, fat, dummy. Let's keep it real, I'm just a goofyu kid who watched too much Kwai Chang Caine.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by cqc10 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:32 pm

Great quotes. Most people don't realize that the movement in-between the postures is where the real treasure is hiding. Learn the principles of the form - the stances, transitions, etc. Then break away from it and be formless.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by buckethead » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:12 pm

Would I go too far astray by just following this video for 100 days?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7799282019

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by GoDogGo! » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:29 pm

BucketHead wrote:Would I go too far astray by just following this video for 100 days?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7799282019
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by cqc10 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:33 pm

I think the main lesson in that video is that with white, almost see-through silk pajamas and a couple of male friends, you too can teleport to wondrous and forbidden places.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by cqc10 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:33 pm

And on a serious note, that looks like an 8 brocades variation and following along wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by buckethead » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:18 pm

cqc10 wrote:And on a serious note, that looks like an 8 brocades variation and following along wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose.
I was being serious. Not sure what you mean by the teleporting stuff, unless the video link is screwed up.

I've been doing sitting meditation for years but I sit so freakin' much anyways, I thought I'd give qigong a try. The video I linked seemed to be pretty good. I just don't have a budget to go get a teacher, yet.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by cqc10 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:52 pm

I figured you were.

Try it for a week and see how you feel. Some 'Way of Energy' standing or one of the other mentioned resources might be better, but sticking with this for a week or two to test the waters would be just fine.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Freki » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:03 pm

I assume this is the same Ken Cohen??

http://www.gaiam.com/product/media-libr ... ercises.do

Great thread.

EDIT: Never mind, appears to have been replaced by the Essential Qigong Training Course posted earlier.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Abandoned by Wolves » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:07 pm

The "Bliss QiGong" set from DD is a presentation of the Yang Family Tai Chi Chi Kung Set I learned from Stuart Olson. (Presumably since DuCane sponsored the seminar where I learned it, that's who he learned it from, too). It can easily be modified to incorporate Standing forms at the beginning or end of the session, and includes several supplemental exercise that can also be added at the beginning or end of the session. If all you want is basic health, vitality and relaxation, you can't go too far wrong.

Also pretty good are Terry Dunn's "Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing" chi kung tapes/DVDs. IThey include several standing and sitting postures, as well as moving sets. Each set is preceded by a special breathing sequence that supposedly activates the chi (or the lymph and nervous system if you don't believe in chi) in a slightly different way. The nice thing about Dunn's stuff is that it is presented in a follow-along format - watch the tape, follow along, and that's your session (unless you want to work further into it).

What's nice about both these presentations is that the material is clearly presented, is easy to follow and understand, and the mystical claptrap is kept to a minimum. Breath right, move right, pay attention to what you're doing, and you will experience pretty strong wai chi flow.

Eight brocades bores me to death (the standing version anyway), but lots of people like it and thrive on it.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:42 pm

I was thinking about this some more.

If you want to see an explanation of simple moving and still qigong, it's on page 18 and 19 of this book.

http://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Health-Mar ... 312&sr=8-1

--

My feet and calves got incredibly sore from the toe raises in the 8 brocades. This thing is incredibly effective on feet and lower legs. It got rid of some terrible knots I had in my calves.

Very worth the money:

http://www.amazon.com/Reflex-Roller-Del ... 428&sr=8-1

You can use it on your back to a limited extent.

---

Changing shoes and surfaces for the toe raises seemed to augment progress, but I'm not sure about that. YMMV.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:43 pm

I think this thread should go into the nuggets section.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Dave » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:39 pm

Ok.
It is a great thread. so I will move it over, but let's not let it die. There is some excellent information here but it seems as though whenever we Nuggetize something the discourse ends
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:44 pm

I realize that is a hazard. Maybe we should wait a while.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 5:48 pm

JMO

Cohen's "essential" course sounds complicated and involved. I don't know anything about it, though.

I think the way to do it is set the bar really low to make sure you don't quit, and include standing or get a good instructor and do what he says.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:44 pm

FWIW

To me, this guy is doing the five animal frolics in a very high-performance "internal" way. Very cool, but not accessible like the low level way. It takes a lot of hard work to get where this guy is, but you can set lower goals and get healthier and happier etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egrEfhPm5EA

In any case it beats the crap out of the "your workout is our warmup" mentality.

He's a Chen guy which is exceptionally cool. Fish around in his vids for motivation.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Trip » Sat Mar 29, 2008 7:52 pm

ultracool - any exposure to Chen Practical Style?

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by ultracool » Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:42 pm

Trip wrote:ultracool - any exposure to Chen Practical Style?
No.

IMA is really hard. Due to circumstances and the fact that my main objectives was health, I went the straight qigong way.

IMO, there is no dabbling in IMA.

On the other hand, I think you can kind of dabble in ashtanga yoga and get quite a bit out of it. Realistically, I think that this is an easier way to take eastern concepts up a few notches.

I've seen an incredible Chen demonstration in person though. Just incredible.

My qigong guy has clearly demonstrated that the Chinese shit is the shit. This guy can move for a 50+.

http://www.zhangtaiji.com/
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Abandoned by Wolves » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:41 am

ultracool wrote:FWIW

To me, this guy is doing the five animal frolics in a very high-performance "internal" way. Very cool, but not accessible like the low level way. It takes a lot of hard work to get where this guy is, but you can set lower goals and get healthier and happier etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egrEfhPm5EA

In any case it beats the crap out of the "your workout is our warmup" mentality.

He's a Chen guy which is exceptionally cool. Fish around in his vids for motivation.
Yes, Jesse Tsao. I actually got this DVD because I like the Five Animal Frolics and it looked interesting. I agree that this is a pretty "high level" version of the set compared to DuCane/Cohen's versions. Not really for beginners, but quite artistic.

Tsao is pretty cool - he offers an entire range of training programs to help a student explore and experience the full range of training, including Eight Brocades, Yi Jin Jing, and Silk Reeling. He also has a neat "Tai Chi Diagram training" program, which I saw Terry Dunn teach the beginnings of at a seminar. It's obviously a Chen style thing, and it looks like it might be a lot of fun, kind of like the "tea serving" exercises in Pa Kua.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by LG Elf Ftr/Wizard 7/17 » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:04 pm

Thanks for the advices. I used some amazon gift certificates and ordered some titles. The DVD versions of the Eight Pieces of Brocade and Simplified Tai Chi Chuan from YMAA arrived today.
I've got the books Way of Energy and the follow up Chi Gung: Way of Power by Lam (recommended by Lemon in Nuggets) on order, as is Yang's Qigong for Health and Martial Arts.
Finally, yesterday on ebay, I picked up Fundamentals of Pa Kua Chang vols 1 and 2 and Classical Northern Wu Style Tai Ji Quan.
I'll take a look at everything and try to put together a practice of standing qigong integrated with the Brocade qigong and the simplified Tai Chi. The other stuff is more for general information and reading.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by groundfighter2005 » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:58 pm

Silly question, but when it comes to doing something for time, i.e. in Cotter's Nine Little Heaven demo he says when you center the qi you hold that position for around 5 minutes. When you are just holding a posture, and staying relaxed etc, how are you supposed to know when 5 minutes has passed? I dunno about you guys, but im sure I'd probably grossly overestimate the amount of time I was staying in that position. Set a timer for 5 minutes? Or does this break up the flow of Cotter's qigong set?
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Dave » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:16 am

Use a timer, or just keep a clock nearby and every once in a while open one eye & look. At first 5 minutes will seem like an eternity, after practicing it for a while it seems very short.
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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by Mickey O'neil » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:14 am

Dave wrote:open one eye & look.
You're supposed to keep your eyes closed during qigong practice? I stare straight ahead at a spot on the wall.

I use a timer btw.

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Re: Qigong/Tai Chi for Regular Guys

Post by DrDonkeyLove » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:42 am

Token Hetero wrote:Thanks for the advices. I used some amazon gift certificates and ordered some titles. The DVD versions of the Eight Pieces of Brocade and Simplified Tai Chi Chuan from YMAA arrived today.
I've got the books Way of Energy and the follow up Chi Gung: Way of Power by Lam (recommended by Lemon in Nuggets) on order, as is Yang's Qigong for Health and Martial Arts.
Finally, yesterday on ebay, I picked up Fundamentals of Pa Kua Chang vols 1 and 2 and Classical Northern Wu Style Tai Ji Quan.
I'll take a look at everything and try to put together a practice of standing qigong integrated with the Brocade qigong and the simplified Tai Chi. The other stuff is more for general information and reading.
I'm no expert but you probably have a decade or more worth of information in hand. Read and enjoy it all. Experiment as you like. Then pick a thing or two and focus on that for a long time. As simple as The Way of Energy is, I've re-read it multiple times and often look at it and choose a page or two for review. As my experience level increases, I regularly learn new things from the old book.
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