Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by cqc10 » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:38 pm

If you all would take up IMA you'd avoid most of these problems.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Sofa King » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:50 pm

cqc10 wrote:If you all would take up IMA you'd avoid most of these problems.
IMA= Indian Martial Arts?

Pardon my dumbassednessity.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:51 pm

The "I" is for internal.

Remember folks, pride is a fickle bitch.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by stosh » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:59 pm

Fat Cat wrote:The "I" is for internal.

Remember folks, pride is a fickle bitch.
You get Pride, too?

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Fat Cat » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:02 pm

?
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:21 pm

stosh wrote:
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:Rant switching from ETK to Yoga, if that's the shortest path to getting better, is the wisest choice and there is no shame in making that switch, not to mention the fact that the work done in this type of Yoga is certainly no less intense.
Napster,

If you think making wholesale changes in programs is the way to go, have at it. For me, I disagree. It's the easiest 'out', and it's the hardest way to know if you're ever progressing.
Your comments indicate that you are still operating under the assumption that the guy wants to 'achieve' some milestone in training when in reality it sounds like all he's looking to get out of it is to feel good/better--which as you know are not measurable results. Working around an injury for the sake of continuing a program sounds rugged/classy/tough/cool and may be necessary to achieve a measurable result/milestone, but it is completely unnecessary for what the guy is looking for right now--counterproductive even.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by terra » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:33 pm

Not getting injured and/or changing your training focus can be related although I don't believe that there is always a link between injury and 'what' you are doing, it can also be 'how' you are doing it that leads to problems - but thats another topic again.

I use the following philosophy a lot when it comes to wellbeing... In fact it works with most things in life and serves me:
"Far better to hear the tiger's roar from a distance than to feel its breath upon your neck".
(Not my words and i'm probably fucking it a bit by misquoting).

For me an injury/tweakage is the tiger's breath on my neck, but hearing it's roar from a distance is like changing out my routine (or style of application) at the right time before I get a tweak.
I think an accuity to oneself allows us to always maintain a healthy distance between us and the tiger.

To constantly change your routine too early is to be constantly on the run from the tiger even though it might not be there, this is a waste of time and energy.
To be constantly in a state of training induced tweakage is to be clueless or sensory deficient and easily tiger-jacked
(also one who learns nothing from the previous tiger jacking - hence "fool me twice" etc etc).

So there is a balance to be had... Steer clear of the tiger but at the same time don't be running away when the tiger isn't there.
Also note that, for some people, certain training styles are heavily tiger infested... ie they probably shouldn't go there in the first place - or at least not without a whole heap of accuity training and tigerproofing beforehand.

Internal martial arts and eastern practices such as Yogas, Qigong etc are all a good alternative 'training style's themselves but more than that they also have the intrinsic ability to increase self accuity for better 'tiger awarness' during the cycles of heavy lifting or sparring that society makes us think are necessary to feel worthy.
Rolfing, Bodywork, Chiropractic, Meditaion, massage all have similar accuity effects (speaking from experience and having knowledge of research).
Can't heavy lifting, sparring etc be performed meditatively too? Of course. Then doesn't it also have the ability to be honouring and not damaging? Absolutely.

This may sound stupid but try it. Go about your lifting in a 'prayerful manner'. No distractions, enter your training space like a church. Sit and centre yourself solemnly if needed. Work with your breath whilst training - focus inward find peace and space within the intensity of the workout.
None of this is spiritual mumbo - just techniques to increase and practice accuity to tigers whilst training.
You get these things by default when practicing the eastern stuff in the manner intended.


---------
How does a bit of Yoga or Quigong make your football team (or platoon) faster stronger and more able to hit harder?
You might think it makes them soft but no...
- Where the team member would formally come to the physio and say "knee hurts", with the physio saying "well thats because you've torn the shit out it of it, probably from overtraining. Here have a month on the bench, 2 months rehab then another 2 months getting back to your original personal best". Meanwhile the team and the player suffer.

- With increased accuity the team member will respond by starting to present to the physio saying "knee hurts". Physio says "Well there's nothing clinically damaged, yet - its subclinical at the moment and with a couple of weeks focussed prehab and a good look at your current training/lifestyle we can avoid a real problem so you can continue to make gains and support the team"

Sure there are other issues but practice your tiger awareness - I guarantee it will improve your training life and more.
---------

If what Rant is doing is working towards better avoiding the tiger then good for him.


Sorry for long post, I hope it helps.

... and watch out for the tiger!
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by stosh » Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:08 pm

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:Your comments indicate that you are still operating under the assumption that the guy wants to 'achieve' some milestone in training when in reality it sounds like all he's looking to get out of it is to feel good/better--which as you know are not measurable results. Working around an injury for the sake of continuing a program sounds rugged/classy/tough/cool and may be necessary to achieve a measurable result/milestone, but it is completely unnecessary for what the guy is looking for right now--counterproductive even.
Firstly, I've no assumptions about the 'guy'. Secondly, everyone trains for a reason. Every smart person lays out a plan or framework to head him toward the direction of that reason. Scrapping said plans/frameworks wholesale does not seem wise to me; tweaking them does. It's got nothing to do with rugged/tough; you have that in your head for some reason. As I said, you think it's wise to do 180s, go for it.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:21 am

stosh wrote:
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:Your comments indicate that you are still operating under the assumption that the guy wants to 'achieve' some milestone in training when in reality it sounds like all he's looking to get out of it is to feel good/better--which as you know are not measurable results. Working around an injury for the sake of continuing a program sounds rugged/classy/tough/cool and may be necessary to achieve a measurable result/milestone, but it is completely unnecessary for what the guy is looking for right now--counterproductive even.
Firstly, I've no assumptions about the 'guy'. Secondly, everyone trains for a reason. Every smart person lays out a plan or framework to head him toward the direction of that reason. Scrapping said plans/frameworks wholesale does not seem wise to me; tweaking them does. It's got nothing to do with rugged/tough; you have that in your head for some reason. As I said, you think it's wise to do 180s, go for it.
Again, maybe it's semantics, but how you see what he is doing as a 180 is beyond me. Maybe you didn't read the blog?

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Real Rant » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:01 am

terra wrote:Internal martial arts and eastern practices such as Yogas, Qigong etc are all a good alternative 'training style's themselves but more than that they also have the intrinsic ability to increase self accuity for better 'tiger awarness' during the cycles of heavy lifting or sparring that society makes us think are necessary to feel worthy.
Rolfing, Bodywork, Chiropractic, Meditaion, massage all have similar accuity effects (speaking from experience and having knowledge of research).
Can't heavy lifting, sparring etc be performed meditatively too? Of course. Then doesn't it also have the ability to be honouring and not damaging? Absolutely.

This may sound stupid but try it. Go about your lifting in a 'prayerful manner'. No distractions, enter your training space like a church. Sit and centre yourself solemnly if needed. Work with your breath whilst training - focus inward find peace and space within the intensity of the workout.
None of this is spiritual mumbo - just techniques to increase and practice accuity to tigers whilst training.
You get these things by default when practicing the eastern stuff in the manner intended.

Precisely. So much of my problem has been unconscious training, trying to defy the body and all that. I can’t speak for martial arts but yoga certainly brings about a greater body awarness and is enabling to distinguish between discomfort and pain. I never knew the difference but I was bred not to think about it. To play football or box at any significant level to have to plow though that stuff. It works in that realm but it’s a brief period in one’s life. I’m on a whole different playing field now with completely different objectives. Guys like Dano can be excused due to youth. I was the same not long ago. I suppose Stosh can even be excused. Not everyone have the mental acumen to grasp this stuff.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Real Rant » Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:04 am

stosh wrote: Firstly, I've no assumptions about the 'guy'. Secondly, everyone trains for a reason. Every smart person lays out a plan or framework to head him toward the direction of that reason. Scrapping said plans/frameworks wholesale does not seem wise to me; tweaking them does. It's got nothing to do with rugged/tough; you have that in your head for some reason. As I said, you think it's wise to do 180s, go for it.
Stosh,

Do you understand what a 180 is?

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Holland Oates » Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:47 pm

I think this boils down to one basic element.

What do you want in life?

If grinding through workouts and hurting like hell while you get stronger is important than you then by all means keep up the good work.

I was tired of hurting like hell every time I had a work out. And I don't mean that satisfying deep muscle soreness. I'm talking the "shit is in a bind and it could break at anytime" soreness. I was to a point that when I sneezed it hurt like a motherfucker. Plus I was fat, my heart rate was up, and I just felt like shit.

So I stepped back to improve my over all health and mobility and I'm having a good time doing it.

I'm going to ride my bike, do yoga/Flowfit, wrestle, box, run, and blast myself with bodyweight training to get my base strength level back up. My fucking pull ups SUCK!

But I'm going to do this at about 75% to 90% intensity.

My biggest mistakes when I got a little flabby was to shift from either a strongman/powerlifting workout to a X-fit/Ross workout and I just traded one set of nagging pains and injuries for another.

So now I'm going to use the simple fact that I'm not training to be an "Elite Athlete" to scale the workouts back to a manageable level.

I want to feel energized when I finish a workout not like I've been hit by a fucking truck.

I'm going to add in some sandbag training and heavy prowler pushes after 30 days but for the next 30 days it's going to be no more than 90# on the prowler and 100# in the bag and I'm actually looking forward to training for a change.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:12 pm

Jim Glover wrote: So now I'm going to use the simple fact that I'm not training to be an "Elite Athlete" to scale the workouts back to a manageable level.
Agreed. A couple of weeks back, I was talking to some of the other regulars that I BS with at my fancy pants gym. Older guys who I daresay have bigger PR's in the powerlifts over the years than anyone who posts here outside of PL54, Garm and maybe 2 or 3 others. One guy is well into his 50s and I have seen him do BP reps with 405. Another is a Minneapolis Firefighter who is in awesome shape and in his 40s and can frequently be found repping out ATG w. 405....anyway, old school compound training types and then a third guy who is also in his 40s, in awesome shape and stronger than me in some lifts like bench, but not pulls or squats. All of us have recently come to the conclusion due to aches, pains and injuries that the best thing for us to do is to just get in and train, enjoy it and as Brett Jones once said to me, "go with what the day gives you."

FWIW.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Mickey O'neil » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:17 pm

Jim Glover wrote:I think this boils down to one basic element.

What do you want in life?

If grinding through workouts and hurting like hell while you get stronger is important than you then by all means keep up the good work.

I was tired of hurting like hell every time I had a work out. And I don't mean that satisfying deep muscle soreness. I'm talking the "shit is in a bind and it could break at anytime" soreness. I was to a point that when I sneezed it hurt like a motherfucker. Plus I was fat, my heart rate was up, and I just felt like shit.

So I stepped back to improve my over all health and mobility and I'm having a good time doing it.

I'm going to ride my bike, do yoga/Flowfit, wrestle, box, run, and blast myself with bodyweight training to get my base strength level back up. My fucking pull ups SUCK!

But I'm going to do this at about 75% to 90% intensity.

My biggest mistakes when I got a little flabby was to shift from either a strongman/powerlifting workout to a X-fit/Ross workout and I just traded one set of nagging pains and injuries for another.

So now I'm going to use the simple fact that I'm not training to be an "Elite Athlete" to scale the workouts back to a manageable level.

I want to feel energized when I finish a workout not like I've been hit by a fucking truck.

I'm going to add in some sandbag training and heavy prowler pushes after 30 days but for the next 30 days it's going to be no more than 90# on the prowler and 100# in the bag and I'm actually looking forward to training for a change.
Sorry Jim but that just makes too much fucking sense.

Sandbags huh? Like from here: http://powerandbulk.com/phpBB2/viewtopi ... deck+cards

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by stosh » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:27 pm

Aches, pains, injuries....y'all sound like Rif. If you hurt that much at the level anyone here is at (with the exceptions of PL54, Cleaner, Cate and a couple others), then you're doing something wrong.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:39 pm

Stosh = Always Certain, Often Wrong
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:42 pm

stosh wrote:Aches, pains, injuries....y'all sound like Rif. If you hurt that much at the level anyone here is at (with the exceptions of PL54, Cleaner, Cate and a couple others), then you're doing something wrong.
There you go again with terms like "level" as if we are trying to be competitive athletes or something. The fact is, you're right: if you hurt yourself or get aches and pains, it is a sign that whatever it is you're doing at present is not the right thing for you at that time and as such, the smart thing is to change gears. Unless of course, your training is PR driven, whether it is on a platform or in your garage, then you should do your 'work around' as you say if it's important enough to you.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:45 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Stosh = Always Certain, Often Wrong
We have got to start saving some of these quotes.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by stosh » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:46 pm

Fat Cat wrote:Stosh = Always Certain, Often Wrong
No doubt, but remember this is the internets.

But tell me where that's wrong. It's not possible to lift a barbell without getting jacked?
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by stosh » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:47 pm

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:There you go again with terms like "level" as if we are trying to be competitive athletes or something.
No dimbulb, I'm saying that we are very very far from being competitive athletes.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:49 pm

stosh wrote:
Fat Cat wrote:It's not possible to lift a barbell without getting jacked?
It is not always the barbell lifting or training that causes the 'jacking'. My neck was seriously fucking jacked for the entire month of February and I can only guess that it was a combination of stress, poor sleep and possibly doing BB Jerks near daily that created a perfect storm. I cannot be certain, though.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:50 pm

Stosh, I actually kinda dig the consistency point you are making. That said, you just can't generalize. In my own case, I am both consistent (10 years of jiujitsu) and dilettantish, changing my supplementary workouts whenever the hell it seems fun. In many cases, there is no harm in a wide variety of activities, so long as there is consistent activity, stress relief and fun. It's really only when you set specific competitive goals for your self that it become necessary to stick to one training plan, and even then, you gotta tweak it.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:51 pm

High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:It is not always the barbell lifting or training that causes the 'jacking'. My neck was seriously fucking jacked for the entire month of February and I can only guess that it was a combination of stress, poor sleep and possibly doing BB Jerks near daily that created a perfect storm. I cannot be certain, though.
That's right. In fact, apropos to this discussion, I damaged my neck practicing full power Single Whip--a taijiquan move--and ended up losing feeling in my left hand forever. It can be anything, but if it doesn't help your organism, it's probably not a bad idea to change.
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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by The Venerable Bogatir X » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:53 pm

stosh wrote:
High Velocity Lie-Nap! wrote:There you go again with terms like "level" as if we are trying to be competitive athletes or something.
No dimbulb, I'm saying that we are very very far from being competitive athletes.
Well no screaming eagle shit. The fact that you would even compare us to them is just more proof as to why you're Semper Silly.

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Re: Thoughts on functional fitness and Bikram yoga by Rant

Post by Holland Oates » Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:53 pm

That's pretty much it Mick.

I also like to do get ups with a sandbag along with just picking that fucker up and taking it for a walk.

Stosh, I think you're pretty much stirring the pot now.

But you are right.

A lot of us never had coaches to teach us the right way to lift. We had to learn on our own and make our own mistakes.

Hell how sad is it that I know more now about S&C than all of my old football coaches combined. I had a better grasp of S&C when I was in my mid 20's than all my old coaches.

So yeah we've done a lot of shit wrong so now we are trying to fix it.

I don't know how old you are or what kind of job you have but I'm in my 30's with a fucked up job that requires me to work on call 24 hours a day 7 days a week with no idea how long I'll be on duty once I get to work. So the main thing I'm trying to do is extend my training life.

Too many high level powerlifters, strongmen, and oly lifters achieve magnificent glory and strength and when they can no longer handle the weight they that they handled at their peak they lose motivation and quit lifting all together.

They get fat, they get unhealthy, and they die earlier than they should.

I'll never have glory but I want a long healthy active life and I want to improve a lot of aspects of my training that I neglected over the years.

There are always going to be aches and pains and they are not always bad but recognizing the difference between good pain and bad pain and adjusting your training as needed is what I'm basing my training around.

There is no need for me to work through pain since I don't compete so why do it?

Hell Chad Aichs, one of the strongest men to walk the face of the earth has addressed similar issues in the past year with his own training.

What I'd suggest is use our mistakes to keep yourself healthy.

Don't neglect your base aerobic cardio capacity, mobility, and overall health while you are working to get stronger and you won't have to take the drastic actions that some of us have had to take due to imbalances.
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