Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

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Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Garm » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:46 pm

For posterity, from 2/07. Apparently, he's a pole smoker, too:
Folks,

Guess I had better have evidence before saying something like that, especially in a public forum.

Yes, Pavel is a fraud, that's right a phony.

Meaning, he has made up his credentials, stolen and plagiarized to created the illusion of expertise in a subject that until very recently, no one here knew anything about, meaning there was no way to dispute his claims

He has been found out and I have decided to do a public service by educating the brainwashed masses about the accuracy of his claims.

All of this information will be out in the open soon enough.

That is all for now. Please discuss.

P.S. What does it mean when a man makes a public display of being "hot and manly"? Yeah, that's what i thought---not that's there's anything wrong with that!
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by johno » Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:26 pm

Garm wrote:For posterity, from 2/07. Apparently, he's a pole smoker, too:
All of this information will be out in the open soon enough.
Waiting....

The dirtiest dirt I've seen is that he can't prove his MS claim.

...still waiting.....
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:37 am

As much as I don't like Dragondoor's money grabbing way of business, I think this claim is a bit harsh. Tsatsouline might not have the official credentials and qualifications, but he knows his stuff. Judging by his articles and books he well knows what he is talking about. Beyond Bodybuilding is good, so is Bulletproof Abs, Super Joints, stretching and kettlebell books. He is well read and is strong.

It's just a bit suspicious to me when previous followers turn away after exhausting the use of their role model. Cotter knew absolutely nothing about kettlebells before Pavel introduced it to the USA. Now he is an expert and pours dirt on his - well -teacher. So the best and the most ethical thing would be to keep quiet. Pole smoking claims just re-inforce my suspicions. While blind following on the pages of DD forum is irritating, as well as the whole "comrade" spiel, Pavel does not deserve that kind of shit thrown at him. :isdashit:
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Hamper » Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:50 am

smet wrote:As much as I don't like Dragondoor's money grabbing way of business, I think this claim is a bit harsh. Tsatsouline might not have the official credentials and qualifications, but he knows his stuff. Judging by his articles and books he well knows what he is talking about. Beyond Bodybuilding is good, so is Bulletproof Abs, Super Joints, stretching and kettlebell books. He is well read and is strong.

It's just a bit suspicious to me when previous followers turn away after exhausting the use of their role model. Cotter knew absolutely nothing about kettlebells before Pavel introduced it to the USA. Now he is an expert and pours dirt on his - well -teacher. So the best and the most ethical thing would be to keep quiet. Pole smoking claims just re-inforce my suspicions. While blind following on the pages of DD forum is irritating, as well as the whole "comrade" spiel, Pavel does not deserve that kind of shit thrown at him. :isdashit:
That reeks of fairness and common sense Smet.You must now be banned!

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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by powerlifter54 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:35 pm

i think both Steves lost their minds. Good luck to them but this got personal real fast. It is a ball with a handle. BFD.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Garm » Tue May 06, 2008 4:18 pm

smet wrote:Cotter knew absolutely nothing about kettlebells before Pavel introduced it to the USA. Now he is an expert and pours dirt on his - well -teacher.
He behaves identically toward his Xingyiquan teacher, Mike Patterson, FYI.

It's still funny that Pavel enjoys a bit of receiving-end sodomy, though. I'd've ass fucked him myself if I could have been made Senior. Fuck it - even borscht & vodka sourced fecal matter washes right off.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sassenach » Tue May 06, 2008 5:38 pm

powerlifter54 wrote:i think both Steves lost their minds. Good luck to them but this got personal real fast. It is a ball with a handle. BFD.

I believe the acheyballs carry some sort of schizophrenic energy.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by GoDogGo! » Tue May 06, 2008 5:52 pm

Hebephrenispheres!
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sofa King » Thu May 08, 2008 6:56 pm

CP wrote:
powerlifter54 wrote:i think both Steves lost their minds. Good luck to them but this got personal real fast. It is a ball with a handle. BFD.

I believe the acheyballs carry some sort of schizophrenic energy.
SCHIZOBALLS!
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Garm » Tue May 13, 2008 3:44 pm

The way I was taught, the single most egregious thing a CMA practitioner can do is to disrespect his teacher. Cotter's a serial violator of this principle, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people have their noses up his ass.

Cotter states that he started training at age 12 and was in his mid twenties when he stopped competing in 1996.

That would make him 12 years old in 1983, the year Hsu Hong Chi died.

Throughout the 1994-1996 competition period, Cotter was happy to be known as a student of Mike Patterson, Hsu's successor in the USA. Later, Cotter claimed to have taught all the classes at Patterson's school and learned Xingyiquan from Hsu directly, clearly impossible as he'd have been a few months old at the time. He's stabbed his actual CMA teacher in the back in print hundreds of times, and did the same thing to Tsatsouline. You would never have heard of Steve Cotter if it wasn't for Mike Patterson, who taught him everything he knew up to the time of the sea change.

I think Pavhole is a complete asshole, BTW, but Cotter isn't any more worth respecting or following as a martial artist or kettleballer. My new favorite is the 'traditional medicine' discipline he recently 'invented'. It's all about money and bullshit with Cotter, apparently.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Garm » Wed May 14, 2008 1:31 pm

Let's add the below details to the Cotter-is-a-whackjob nugget. I guess if I was five foot nothing and weighed as much as most junior high school students, I'd be a bit more sensitive. Probably wouldn't break out the rabid dog move so quickly, though, but who can say what childhood demons lead the redoubtable Mr. Cotter to be so emotionally fragile.

If I ever do run into the guy, I'll give him a hug and the requisite stepladder...
Garm wrote:Re: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=196886

Cotter says via PM (28 similar paragraphs not displayed):
You can keep blabbing or you can step up to the plate. I don't like to hurt anyone, particularly not old, sickly men. However, you are pushing an issue and if you have what it takes you should put your gong fu where your mouth is. Say the word buddy. I'll meet you anytime and we can see if I am bullshit or not.
My reply, in toto:
You should correct me in public, IMO, if you disagree with what I said in public. "Class", as far as I can tell, is often a method used to avoid valid confrontation. As is escalation from verbal to physical, especially given the certain fact that you and I will never be in the same place at the same time. I'm not a child and you aren't a schoolyard bully from whom I have anything to fear. Save the bluster for those who don't know better.

You said you started training when you were 12, the same year Hsu died. Then you said, right here on IG, that you learned Xingyi from Hsu, not Patterson. Both of these cannot be true.

You also said, right here on IG, that you taught all the Xingyi classes at Patterson's school and that Patterson did not. This is also bullshit. Don't say it if you don't like to be called on it.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Dazed » Fri May 16, 2008 6:40 pm

Dammit you asshole I can't decide which is funnier, what do I do now????
If I ever do run into the guy, I'll give him a hug and the requisite stepladder...
-OR-
Fuck it - even borscht & vodka sourced fecal matter washes right off.
Maybe I should run a poll, being the indecisive little twat that I am... :-k :rolleyes:
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:15 pm

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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:32 pm

Round back, deep squatting. Very different from what is preached more recently.

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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:02 am

Long time ago I asked Pavel a question on DragonDoor - believe it or not the message is still on that board:

http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/kettlebel ... pavel.html
Pavel, being from Riga, you might have heard of this. There was a guy in the Politechnical Institute who did his PhD on stretching. He used vibration as a tool to accelerate it. It worked like this: there was a machine, with kind of a rail sticking out at your waist height. You put your ankle on it, in the position of the desired stretch, got to the range limit, and the rail would start vibrating with the amplitude of about 5 cm. You would continue to increase your range while keeping your leg on the rail. The author of the invention claimed that this significantly accelerated stretching. Do you know anything about it?
There was no reply.

Browsing some stuff on stretching I remembered this and decided to ask a question again. Which I did, more or less in the same words plus theorizing a little about Golgi reflex and posting couple of Youtube videos of some Russian researchers doing similar thing.

My account was in moderation earlier - for expressing my opinion about Mark Rippetoe and his stance on high versus low bar. Moderation means that Mother Superior reads my posts before they appear publicly. But that was lifted. And then the strangest thing happened. The next day I wanted to check the answers - the thread was not there. I sent Steve Freides PM about this and got the reply that stunned me: "I cannot spend more time explaining what is and isn't acceptable on our forum to you. Your account is in moderation, that thread is removed."

There is definitely something Strange and Sinister about Mr. Simple and Sinister's past. About the time of my stretching question on DD another Russian dude asked Pavel about his past - referring to the fact that he cannot find anything about him on Russian speaking Internet. The reply was the barrage of shaming posts from other members, but nothing from the Master himself.

Pavel's bio usually fits in one paragraph. Questions about the past seem to cause some anxiety...
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Fat Cat » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:04 am

Oh there's a whole tribute video on YouTube of edited Pavel video showing just how very little he knew about kettlebells when he first started marketing them in the Wessssst.

He is both knowledgable and a fraud, if that makes any sense. I think he does have an excellent physical education background, but it's not what he claimed it to be, and that much of what he markets now is stuff he learned after he came to Amerika. FWIW, he didn't claim that he was educated in Riga, he said he was a graduate of the Lesgaft Institute of Physical Education in Saint Petersgurg/Petrovgrad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesgaft_N ... and_Health
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:40 am

Here it is, the Dragondoor exchange:

http://kbforum.dragondoor.com/kettlebel ... post345878

Pavel:
Com. Doublethinker, welcome to the Party!

My stretching books have been translated into Russian, they will be published within a year.

I am from Riga, where are you from?
Com. Pavel, thanks!

I was more hoping to get my hands also on your video material since it's better to see the exercise done once than to read about it a hundred times.

I'm from Moscow myself and I must say that your recent success with promotion of Kettlebell sport is very interesting. But some claim that you are neither of Spetsnaz, nor a Russian at all - the google search of Russian part of Web on "Павел Цацулин" gave no results either. Perhaps you can share the details of your biography so as to unveil these myths?
Pavel:
Doublethinker, my background has been checked by the US government agencies I do contract work for. If someone questions it, perhaps you should question their motives.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:46 am

FWIW, he didn't claim that he was educated in Riga, he said he was a graduate of the Lesgaft Institute of Physical Education in Saint Petersgurg/Petrovgrad.
I wasn't implying that he was educated there and my question wasn't a trap, it's just he might have known about the guy and his method.

By the way, do you have a reference to Pavel's Lesgaft degree? Because here he claims to be the graduate of the Minsk Institute of Physical Culture:

Pavel Tsatsouline Interview

There is no doubt Pavel knows a lot about sport science, especially given his ability to read Russian. As I said, I enjoy his writings. And I am all about a man being successful. But the way questions about his past are swept away leaves bitter taste in the mouth.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:40 pm

I will try to dig up the reference. I'm nearly certain that what I'm saying is true, because I had no idea of the existence of the Lesgaft before reading his materials.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:37 am

Please do. If you are correct it will make things interesting.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:42 pm

Heh, funny this was revisited.

Someone, a while ago claimed Pavel's education was in ballet, which was why his first books were about stretching and abs.

Goes to show you Friedes has been a tiny minded twat for at least 2 decades

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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Wed Sep 04, 2019 7:45 pm

It is a good point that he was vetted by the US Gov. But that basically means he is a legitimate immigrant, that he probably has a degree in some sort of physical training (ballet is a legit art) and that he's got no ties to sketchy shit overseas. It almost certainly means he wasn't IN spetznaz or anything like that, though, IMO.

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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:31 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:37 am
Please do. If you are correct it will make things interesting.
I did look and so far have not found anything. I will keep looking, but I am having trouble figuring out where I saw it. Perhaps in PLUSA? That's where I first encountered his work.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Sangoma » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:35 am

Never mind. I don't have an agenda against Pavel. I like his writings and specifically the trend he is trying to set, getting results without unnecessary suffering. His Comrade Spetznaz shtick makes me cringe, but I guess this is his marketing image that he is selling, so whatever.
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Re: Pavel Tsatsouline is a Fraud by Steve Cotter

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:25 am

Sangoma wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:35 am
Never mind. I don't have an agenda against Pavel. I like his writings and specifically the trend he is trying to set, getting results without unnecessary suffering. His Comrade Spetznaz shtick makes me cringe, but I guess this is his marketing image that he is selling, so whatever.
Gay. I would like you more if you had an unhinged and hateful obsession with taking the Pavelizer out.
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