Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

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Bram
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Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:43 am

My friend told me that when I surf I bend my legs a huge amount and it looks stupid.

Pic as proof:

Image

Vs. Pro-Surfer:

Image

I used to squat wide and it cursed me with a wide surf stance that all my friends made fun of. I narrowed my squat stance and it tightened up my width on the board, but now I feel weak with my legs straightened. Literally any bit of speed and I go into a squat.

I thought of Push-Press and BB Jump Squat. Or a hack squat machine if we had one.

Any other ideas?
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by syaigh » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:15 am

You have long femurs, your friend is retarded. Your center of gravity is fine and your squat is great for your biomechanics. Tell him to fuck off.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by nafod » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:35 am

My favorite free ski lesson I offer is "Bend zee knees, 2 dollar please"
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:55 am

syaigh wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:15 am
You have long femurs, your friend is retarded. Your center of gravity is fine and your squat is great for your biomechanics. Tell him to fuck off.
Haha, thanks Syaigh :) I'll let him know not to worry about it
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:43 am

Yeah, you only look a foot taller than the pro surfer. Your center of gravity is way higher

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by climber511 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:31 am

Either jumps squats or double KB Jerks - both will make a strong "top squat".

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:36 pm

nafod wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:35 am
My favorite free ski lesson I offer is "Bend zee knees, 2 dollar please"
Nafod, is the idea to just keep the knees soft for skiing? Trying to relate it to surfing, but also I've only skiied once in the last 20 years :)
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:51 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:43 am
Yeah, you only look a foot taller than the pro surfer. Your center of gravity is way higher
Here's a pro that's my height and even though his torso is longer than mine, my depth does look similar. Thanks Shaf:

Image
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:53 pm

climber511 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:31 am
Either jumps squats or double KB Jerks - both will make a strong "top squat".
I've got DB push-press programmed for next week and it always fries my quads at the top.

Any tips on jump squats? I've never trained them out of fear of bashing my knees to pieces. Maybe just a shortened ROM?
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by nafod » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Bram wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:36 pm
nafod wrote:
Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:35 am
My favorite free ski lesson I offer is "Bend zee knees, 2 dollar please"
Nafod, is the idea to just keep the knees soft for skiing? Trying to relate it to surfing, but also I've only skiied once in the last 20 years :)
It is. So many skiers are stiff in the lower body and absorb all the motion in the upper. You want a still upper body and independent lower.

I'm not a surfer, but the one critique I would have of your stance is it is a wide one with knees out. All the surfing stances I've seen, the feet seem either parallel or even toed in some. That shot you posted of the pro, even though he feet are splayed relative to each other, his back knee has dropped in on his front. But again, me no surfer.

Working on it with my paddleboard, though!
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Grandpa's Spells » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:31 pm

The feedback in you get in surfing is probably harder to self-analyze with all the shit going on. Seems like something to bounce of a surfing sport coach.

Obviously different, but in MA the springiness in your feet for pushing quickly in different directions is affected by squat depth and orientation of your feet and knees. There can be technical reasons for doing something that aren't apparent to a non-practitioner, but where direction of your knees, width, depth, etc. can all matter a lot.

It's is a sport-specific technique issue, talk to an expert IMO.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:53 pm

nafod wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:55 pm

It is. So many skiers are stiff in the lower body and absorb all the motion in the upper. You want a still upper body and independent lower.

I'm not a surfer, but the one critique I would have of your stance is it is a wide one with knees out. All the surfing stances I've seen, the feet seem either parallel or even toed in some. That shot you posted of the pro, even though he feet are splayed relative to each other, his back knee has dropped in on his front. But again, me no surfer.

Working on it with my paddleboard, though!
That's an interesting comment: when I squat I definitely splay my feet out, but lately I've been doing leg press instead with a neutral foot position. My feet do seem more squared off than in that picture.

And about skiing....it's amazing how much our natural reactions run counter to what's considered proper for sport. Like holding your breath when punching, or stiff legging it when skiing.
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:55 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:31 pm
The feedback in you get in surfing is probably harder to self-analyze with all the shit going on. Seems like something to bounce of a surfing sport coach.

Obviously different, but in MA the springiness in your feet for pushing quickly in different directions is affected by squat depth and orientation of your feet and knees. There can be technical reasons for doing something that aren't apparent to a non-practitioner, but where direction of your knees, width, depth, etc. can all matter a lot.

It's is a sport-specific technique issue, talk to an expert IMO.
I was video analyzing myself by recording footage from my iphone placed on the beach. It was pretty helpful, but I've shied away from it. A pair of expert eyes would be great. I'm part of an online community where I can upload vids for free and have expert surfers critique my form. Got to start taking advantage of it.
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by JimZipCode » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 am

When I was getting ready to start going for black belt (>25 yrs ago), I was resistant to showing my stuff to instructors. I felt that I already knew some things that sucked and that I needed to work on, and it would be stupid or embarrassing to show stuff off when I knew I wasn't "ready" yet. I felt that I wanted to get my stuff to a certain level before I bothered to engage my instructors for feedback.

I didn't get any momentum going until I gave that shit up, and just showed the instructors where I was. Where I really was.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by nafod » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:22 pm

Bram wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:53 pm
nafod wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:55 pm

It is. So many skiers are stiff in the lower body and absorb all the motion in the upper. You want a still upper body and independent lower.

I'm not a surfer, but the one critique I would have of your stance is it is a wide one with knees out. All the surfing stances I've seen, the feet seem either parallel or even toed in some. That shot you posted of the pro, even though he feet are splayed relative to each other, his back knee has dropped in on his front. But again, me no surfer.

Working on it with my paddleboard, though!
That's an interesting comment: when I squat I definitely splay my feet out, but lately I've been doing leg press instead with a neutral foot position. My feet do seem more squared off than in that picture.

And about skiing....it's amazing how much our natural reactions run counter to what's considered proper for sport. Like holding your breath when punching, or stiff legging it when skiing.
Also, it is REALLY hard to ski with your feet splayed out. :yawinkle:
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:58 am

JimZipCode wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:41 am
When I was getting ready to start going for black belt (>25 yrs ago), I was resistant to showing my stuff to instructors. I felt that I already knew some things that sucked and that I needed to work on, and it would be stupid or embarrassing to show stuff off when I knew I wasn't "ready" yet. I felt that I wanted to get my stuff to a certain level before I bothered to engage my instructors for feedback.

I didn't get any momentum going until I gave that shit up, and just showed the instructors where I was. Where I really was.
I deleted enough data to record about an hour surf session. I'll bring my phone with me the next time I surf. I could have done it today. Thanks for the motivation.
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Sangoma » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:42 am

In GS they use "partial jerk" for quad conditioning. It's the jerk without the undersquat, i.e. you perform only the first part of the lift. Kettlebells don't leave the rack.
As far as jump squats are concerned, also in GS they are often performed without the "jump". You squat down about 1/4 - 1/3 of the way and then "jump" to the point where you end up on tiptoes, then softly back down to the initial depth. The trick is in the reversal of the movement at the bottom. Knees may rebel against this torture though. I think both of these exercise for reps could be useful for your purposes - I assume endurance is more important for your sport than absolute strength.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:31 am

Thanks Sangoma,

I'm nervous about the stress to the knees with the jump squats, which is why I never did them. But your approach to both exercises sounds smart.

Surfing's a weird sport: strength, endurance, power and explosion are all valuable for your legs.

I've had them buckle on bigger waves and felt that if I had been hitting the gym more it wouldn't have happened. But only once do I remember them burning from endurance, it's rare in San Diego to get long, good waves. A lot of times it's one to three moves and the waves over.
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by syaigh » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 am

For what its worth. I have long femurs and have to squat way back so my knees dont hurt. As a consequence, my quads dont fire as much as they should. I notice the deficiency when running. Squatting with chains makes my squat more quad dominant without hurting my knees. I keep them light, ie a 95-135 lb bar plus 100 lbs of chains. Im a 160 lb 5'8" woman so you may want to adjust weights accordingly, but these wake up my quads in a way i feel is safe and improves postural strength.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Sangoma » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:01 am

Hey, Bram, how about this. I am sure this guy is a hell of a surfer.

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Image

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by nafod » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:50 pm

Bram wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:31 am
Thanks Sangoma,

I'm nervous about the stress to the knees with the jump squats, which is why I never did them. But your approach to both exercises sounds smart.

Surfing's a weird sport: strength, endurance, power and explosion are all valuable for your legs.

I've had them buckle on bigger waves and felt that if I had been hitting the gym more it wouldn't have happened. But only once do I remember them burning from endurance, it's rare in San Diego to get long, good waves. A lot of times it's one to three moves and the waves over.
I would definitely never give up a chance to surf in order to go to the gym to train to surf.
Don’t believe everything you think.

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by dead man walking » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:23 pm

syaigh wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 am
For what its worth. I have long femurs and have to squat way back so my knees dont hurt. As a consequence, my quads dont fire as much as they should. I notice the deficiency when running. Squatting with chains makes my squat more quad dominant without hurting my knees. I keep them light, ie a 95-135 lb bar plus 100 lbs of chains. Im a 160 lb 5'8" woman so you may want to adjust weights accordingly, but these wake up my quads in a way i feel is safe and improves postural strength.
the idea of a woman in chains is kinda cool, but why not front squats? i thought they were nifty for quads.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by syaigh » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:55 pm

dead man walking wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:23 pm
syaigh wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 am
For what its worth. I have long femurs and have to squat way back so my knees dont hurt. As a consequence, my quads dont fire as much as they should. I notice the deficiency when running. Squatting with chains makes my squat more quad dominant without hurting my knees. I keep them light, ie a 95-135 lb bar plus 100 lbs of chains. Im a 160 lb 5'8" woman so you may want to adjust weights accordingly, but these wake up my quads in a way i feel is safe and improves postural strength.
the idea of a woman in chains is kinda cool, but why not front squats? i thought they were nifty for quads.
Well, they require a great deal of shoulder flexibility and can put a lot of preaaure on the shoulder joint if youre not used to doing them regularly. And if you have long femurs, it can be harf to find a good form that is both effective and comdortable. Chain work is easy and fun and since you have to accellerate force through the movement, you can use lighter weights and heavier chains to really target the top part of the squat. In other words, for me, front squats are meh and mostly just make my knees hurt while chain squats are fun and make my quads burn in the good way.
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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Shapecharge » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:26 pm

The wife and I were in Scottsdale a few weeks ago on a little vacation and I went into the resort gym and saw they had a leg machine I'd never seen before. Basically there was a low rail that you straddled standing, with a chest pad that you leaned slightly forward on with a couple of handles you grabbed a hold of for stability. There was a foot pad on the rail that swiveled from side to side. So you basically put your foot on it and pushed it back. It went straight back on a linear path, not up in the air. There was a selector-type weight stack for resistance. I though this machine was pretty cool...not down too much with the machines especially leg based ones but I had done a 5k on the C2 and then I fucked around with this and it burned my quads up more than I had felt in a long time.

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Re: Exercise to Build Quads in the first Quarter of a Squat

Post by Bram » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:11 pm

syaigh wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:50 am
For what its worth. I have long femurs and have to squat way back so my knees dont hurt. As a consequence, my quads dont fire as much as they should. I notice the deficiency when running. Squatting with chains makes my squat more quad dominant without hurting my knees. I keep them light, ie a 95-135 lb bar plus 100 lbs of chains. Im a 160 lb 5'8" woman so you may want to adjust weights accordingly, but these wake up my quads in a way i feel is safe and improves postural strength.
Chains and/or bands both sound like good solutions to overload the top range. We don't have any bands at my gym, but we have a lot of heavy duty bands that I could use.

Today I decided to sub in jumping lunges (without a switch) for traditional lunges or split-squats. Seemed to hit the top ROM and the power element. I plan to surf later so I'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the suggestions!
"Therefore, the sage does not fail in anything since he does nothing; Does not lose anything since he holds nothing. Therefore, the sage's desire is to have no desire." - Lao Tzu

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