Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

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Comanch09
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Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Comanch09 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:41 am

So, I read PTTP a while ago and am already familiar with the basics. I sort of do a variant of it.

Basically, I follow the linear cycle style. Basically I start at a weight that puts me in range of going to a higher weight after about 8 sessions. Usually 5-10 pounds higher than the previous cycle. Each session add 5 pounds.

For example, let say for a lift the highest weight I did in the previous cycle was 185 pounds. I would start the cycle at 155 pounds for the next cycle, and in 8 session I would be at 190 pounds. Maybe I go higher than that and go for a 9th session, but generally stop there and start a new cycle.

Well, this works fine at lower weights. But, once you start getting to higher weights, now I start to see an issue.

For example, let say you are going for 250 lbs. Well, to follow the same protocol as the above you would need to start at 215 lbs.

Well, I think the difference in the starting and ending weight for the cycle, percentage wise, is less and less as the weight goes higher and higher (if you are always increment by 5 pounds and doing cycles over 8-9 sessions). At 400 lbs, the difference would be seem even more.

Would it be advisable for 250+ pound weights to increment the weight each session by 10 pounds instead? For examples, if the goal was to go for 260 pounds in 8 sessions, start the weight out at 180 lbs. Then the second session you go to 190 pounds, and continue each session increasing by 10 pounds.

Also, I do the above in a 5x5 routine. So I lift the highest weight of the session first. Then do 90% for the second session. Then 80% for the rest of the reps (basically, the "Bear" routine in the book, but not 10+ sets). Just to add some details. I do Squat, bench, and then pull ups and some other outside stuff to that as well (but nothing major to mention).

Anyways, would love some help understanding how to adjust things with a cycle program as the weights get higher and higher over time.

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by SubClaw » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:55 am

The higher the final poundage, the bigger the jumps between sessions.

Or, better still, start using percentages for your load jumps instead a fixed amount of pounds. Ten percent jumps, for instance.

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:16 pm

Yeah, switching to percentages seems to me to be the way around the diminishing value of using poundage-based steps.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:46 pm

What does the Brethren think about micro loading? Say, the same increments during the cycle and a small increase for the new high?
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Faleev is against it. Some popular programs like Greyskull insist on it. I have no idea.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 pm

Last year I did a session with the Sydney franchise of Starting Strength. The guy did recommended it (along with buying squatting shoes), especially for the bench. To me personally it does make sense, but then of course, I don't know much to form the opinion. Hence I am curious of the opinions of lifters here.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by SubClaw » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:38 am

Sangoma wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:38 pm
Last year I did a session with the Sydney franchise of Starting Strength. The guy did recommended it (along with buying squatting shoes), especially for the bench. To me personally it does make sense, but then of course, I don't know much to form the opinion. Hence I am curious of the opinions of lifters here.
Everything works... at least for a while. Microloading works, using big plates only works, linear progression works, wave progression works...

I have Platemates (small, magnetic plates for microloading) and they are nice and useful if you are trying to set new personal records all the time. But, and this is just my personal opinion, unless you are a strength sports athlete, you would be better off manipulating volume than microloading.

Being a general athlete, I can’t see much benefit in increasing my bench one pound. Yes, technically I would be “stronger”, but I couldn’t really do anything different or better than before.

But, what if I got stuck on purpose at a certain weight and started adding sets and/or reps?

Imagine for a moment you are following a Starting Strength template and can’t get past three reps at 230 lbs. And, instead of microlading, you take the following approach:

- Since you can’t get all the required five reps, you start doing sets of three until you can do eight sets.

- Then you change things a bit, staying at the same load, until you can do six sets of four reps.

- Next, you try the good, old five by five.

- Then, four sets of six reps.

- And, finally, three sets of eight reps.

At the end of this cycle, wouldn’t you have become a stronger, better well-rounded athlete?

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:38 am

SubClaw, I tend to agree with you. In your examples I personally would either restart the microcycle and re-work up to the desired weight/rep/set or stay at the same weight until I got the reps and sets, Faleyev's style. I am just curious about micro. Staying at close to maximal weight is taxing - and I am a pussy and will burn out fast.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by SubClaw » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:47 am

Sangoma wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:38 am
SubClaw, I tend to agree with you. In your examples I personally would either restart the microcycle and re-work up to the desired weight/rep/set or stay at the same weight until I got the reps and sets, Faleyev's style. I am just curious about micro. Staying at close to maximal weight is taxing - and I am a pussy and will burn out fast.
You can always do a wave cycle, doing big jumps between sessions and microloading the next cycle.

200-210-220-230

202-212-222-232

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Beer Jew » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:23 pm

If you don’t have access to micro plates, try eating dinner before the gym and microloading your dinner.

Each squat session, add 1lb of potatoes. That night, you’ll be lifting 1lb more.

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:22 am

And for bench press I don't swallow food, just keep it in my mouth, right?
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:20 pm

Having tried a number of hi freq. approaches, i think one of the weak links in those systems is using percentages at all.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:49 pm

Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:20 pm
Having tried a number of hi freq. approaches, i think one of the weak links in those systems is using percentages at all.
How would you do it? Completely instinctive loads?
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Blaidd Drwg » Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:00 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:49 pm
Blaidd Drwg wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:20 pm
Having tried a number of hi freq. approaches, i think one of the weak links in those systems is using percentages at all.
How would you do it? Completely instinctive loads?
I would use instinct and rate of perceived exertion with a cap of 7/10th effort. (7RPE, 3-4 reps in the tank on any set)

I've done these routines a lot. In the context of other training and as a stand alone. I have had the best success with setting an upper number and never doing much more than 10 total working reps. (This is a throwing rubric, actually)

I will not go over X unless I'm willing to take a few days off after. (405 or at the time about 85%)

I will not go less than Y...if I need less than Y, I really just need a day off (135)
I will commit to quarter jumps most of the time.
There is no minimum number of reps on the day.
The maximum number of working reps is about 10-15

I did this with hi freq. squatting and the weight floated, usually work up to a top double or single then do 3-4 reps with a lighter weight, again..no more than 10 reps total after warm up. Many days I went to about 2 plates, several weeks in a row I worked up to a single or double at 405 nearly every other day. many many days I went in and did 135 for a single set of 6-10.

At the end of 8 weeks I hit my first deep 500# squat, I was drug free at the time and it felt like nothing.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:14 pm

Nice! Thanks for the detailed reply.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:57 pm

Question though, what does "I will commit to quarter jumps most of the time" mean?
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:57 pm

BD's results are seriously impressive. I think it will take a long time for the idea of benefits of training "easy" to filter through to the mainstream. For now everyone who I know exercises around me is into some sort of almost-died-last-night-nearly-puked-fucking-superhard circuits. In Australia current fad of the list is F45, a combination of HIIT, circuits and....... functional training (whatever the fuck that is). The idea of lifting heavier for fewer reps is rejected outright by most people I talk to. If you are not crawling out of the gym barely breathing, dripping sweat and bleeding out of your mouth - you haven't trained. Feeling invigorated after a workout? That's just ridiculous. Anyway, everyone knows what I am talking about. Yet, the idea of "easy" training is permeating even professional sports: polarised training - 80% light/20% very heavy - is the current trend in endurance sports, as evidenced by multiple publications. Yet recreational mainstream is blissfully unaware.

My current million dollar question is how to set up lifting on top of BJJ and aerobic training. BJJ is still physically very taxing, and the last thing I would like to do is to overdo things and get hurt. For now I am going to try something similar to BD's: low volume, work to a heavy-ish triple or double, no more than 10 working reps, probably three times a week, no more than three exercises.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:47 am

Look, I don't know much about sports or lifting in general, but I do know about BJJ. It takes the body, especially an older body like ours, something on the order of 2 to 3 years to adapt to grappling. Grappling, in that you are moving against the resistance of your opponent, is a form of resistance training. It is also a very concentrated form of cardiovascular training, as I'm sure you've noticed. Your body can only adapt at a moderate pace. Trying to consistently train BJJ and do much more than that is always going to be a challenge, and I'm not convinced that it's worth much in terms of improving your ground game.

You are left then with this basic fact: you are lifting because you like it, it gives variety, and you wanna be jacked and tan. Maybe, if we’re lucky, we get some injury prevention but then again you can hurt yourself lifting too. So what does it mean? It means, since you’re really doing it for fun, do what you like and do it in the amounts you like. Things that I’ve done over the years that really worked well, until they stopped working, were:

1. Maxwell’s bodyweight 300.
2. Don Blue Style 10 x 10 on bench, squat, and deadlift one lift per day, three days per week. Sounds crazy but I felt diesel AF.
3. Pavel’s Simple and Sinster.
4. Vyayam (hindu pushups, squats, clubs, etc.).

Notice what they all have in common? Nothing. If all you really care about is BJJ, just do more BJJ.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:00 am

My problem - I want it all. I want to be a panther on the mat and look like one on the beach. Especially that today is the first day of spring here Down Under! Though today I went back to BJJ first time after getting a flu and it sucked. You are right, my main reason for lifting is because it makes me feel good. But anything I introduce I am going to do feeling very gentle about myself.

BJJ, on the other hand, is absolutely awesome. Today I hitchhiker escaped an arm bar from a blue belt and feel good about myself, in spite of being walked over by him in the next couple of minutes.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Fat Cat » Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:57 am

Ya, I only say what I say so you keep it all in perspective. It takes the pressure off.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by SubClaw » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:14 am

The most productive resistance training I’ve ever done with regards to my performance on the mat is a slightly modified version of the Dan Martin’s Program Minimum. Not only it didn’t substract anything, but it had a noticeable recovery benefit.

Mind you, I lost a great deal of strength, but my BJJ sort of skyrocketed and my joints have never felt better. In a way, the DMPM is like taking long walks or doing mild Yoga.

This is what I was doing back then: Monday to Friday.

- Goblet squats: 1/2/3/4/5

- TRX rows: 1/2/3/4/5

- Push ups: 1/2/3/4/5

- One KB, two hands, clean (a swing that ends up in a goblet position): 1/2/3/4/5

- Sixty minutes walking in the evening.

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by johno » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:06 am

Sangoma wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:00 am
I want to be a panther on the mat and look like one on the beach.
If by looking like a "panther" you mean bodybuilder, I doubt it's possible for most people. Look at your five day per week grapplers. How many look like bodybuilders?

I think a Royce or Rickson or Roger or Maxwell body looks athletic & just fine. But I grew up before the Arnold disease struck.
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by dkay » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:59 am

Sangoma wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:00 am
My problem - I want it all. I want to be a panther on the mat and look like one on the beach.
Hey Champ, sounds like you've got what they refer to in the business as a "Madonna-Hooer Complex". When faced with this dilemma, bodymen from Saxon to Grimek relied upon a heavy regimen of progressive breathing squats, liver pills, alligator wrestling, and dick punches to achieve increased power and bulk.

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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:37 am

Sounds like a good advice, thanks! Just to confirm: dick punches mean punching myself in the dick or punching someone with my dick?
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Re: Question about following a "Power to the People" routine at higher weights?

Post by Sangoma » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:39 am

johno wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:06 am
Sangoma wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 2:00 am
I want to be a panther on the mat and look like one on the beach.
If by looking like a "panther" you mean bodybuilder, I doubt it's possible for most people. Look at your five day per week grapplers. How many look like bodybuilders?

I think a Royce or Rickson or Roger or Maxwell body looks athletic & just fine. But I grew up before the Arnold disease struck.
I am obviously exaggerating. I just would like to lower my body fat somewhat.
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