Should we end birthright citizenship?
Moderator: Dux
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Automation is the future. I was thinking more like this.
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
“The phrase, ‘subject to its jurisdiction’ was intended to exclude from its operation children of ministers, consuls, and citizens or subjects of foreign States born within the United States.” - Slaughter-House Cases, 83 U.S. 36, 73 (1873).
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
No. Jesus, probably many (if not most) of us are beneficiaries of this...
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
How so?
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Good job the native Indians didn’t have that law. Who knows what citizenship you lot would have right now.
davidc wrote:I've found standing on my head to be particularly useful
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Which begs the question. Who will make America great again if it was originally made great by immigrants?
davidc wrote:I've found standing on my head to be particularly useful
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Topic author - Lifetime IGer
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Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
As Elizabeth Warren found out, native tribes have pretty strict citizenship laws.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
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Topic author - Lifetime IGer
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- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:54 am
- Location: Upon the eternal throne of the great Republic of Turdistan
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
America's history with immigrants, and integrating immigrants, has always been messy and often ugly. In a historical context, what's happening now is pretty mild.
"Liberalism is arbitrarily selective in its choice of whose dignity to champion." Adrian Vermeule
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Salvini gonna kick you out brah.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Huh? Are you a native American?
I don't know about your (great) grandparents, I guess, but mine were immigrants and/or in the U.S. temporarily and their kids (my parents and grandparents) were lucky enough to be born here and viola, they were citizens.
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Nobody is talking about repealing the 14th amendment or ending birthright citizenship to the children of citizens or legal permanent residents. We are discussing whether or not that applies, or should apply, to the children of illegal immigrants. Really now, are you six? Life isn't fair, it's war. North America is ours because we took it from people who got it the same way. Why is that hard to understand? If we don't hold it, others will take it, and they won't mewl about arbitrary and stupid ideas of fairness or equality.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Ok, wow. Hyperbole much? The title of the thread is "Should we end birthright citizenship?". Obviously there can be shades of gray regarding foreign nationals, illegals, etc. - only a moron wouldn't recognize that.Fat Cat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:43 amNobody is talking about repealing the 14th amendment or ending birthright citizenship to the children of citizens or legal permanent residents. We are discussing whether or not that applies, or should apply, to the children of illegal immigrants. Really now, are you six? Life isn't fair, it's war. North America is ours because we took it from people who got it the same way. Why is that hard to understand? If we don't hold it, others will take it, and they won't mewl about arbitrary and stupid ideas of fairness or equality.
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
But did you read the rest of the thread? Or have you followed the broader discussion? This wasn't a random discussion of the 14th Amendment, it was a reaction to Trump's proposal regarding illegal immigrants and the applicability of the 14th Amendment to them.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Salvini has forgotten that when an Englishman is present, everyone else are foreigners
davidc wrote:I've found standing on my head to be particularly useful
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
So just thinking it through, if one of the parents is a citizen, should a kid be a citizen? Especially if born in the US?
How about permanent residents?
People under consideration for granting asylum? It is not against the law to present yourself at the border and request asylum, those are not illegals.
On a tourist visa?
I agree being able to sneak in and pop one out seems wrong on the face of it. The current 14th has simplicity going for it. Whatever replaces it will be messy and have it’s own unintended consequences.
How about permanent residents?
People under consideration for granting asylum? It is not against the law to present yourself at the border and request asylum, those are not illegals.
On a tourist visa?
I agree being able to sneak in and pop one out seems wrong on the face of it. The current 14th has simplicity going for it. Whatever replaces it will be messy and have it’s own unintended consequences.
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
I don't think anyone is talking about changing the 14th Amendment. What was being discussed was a change in the way that the language is interpreted. To answer your questions, my thoughts are:nafod wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:09 pm So just thinking it through, if one of the parents is a citizen, should a kid be a citizen? Especially if born in the US?
How about permanent residents?
People under consideration for granting asylum? It is not against the law to present yourself at the border and request asylum, those are not illegals.
On a tourist visa?
I agree being able to sneak in and pop one out seems wrong on the face of it. The current 14th has simplicity going for it. Whatever replaces it will be messy and have it’s own unintended consequences.
- The children of citizens, whether born inside or outside the US, should be citizens by birth.
- The children of legal permanent residents born in the US should be citizens by birth.
- The children of tourists on a tourist visa born in the US should not be citizens by birth.
- The children of illegal immigrants born in the US should not be citizens by birth.
Which is exactly what the 14th Amendment already says.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Same difference, no?Fat Cat wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:37 pmI don't think anyone is talking about changing the 14th Amendment. What was being discussed was a change in the way that the language is interpreted.nafod wrote: ↑Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:09 pm So just thinking it through, if one of the parents is a citizen, should a kid be a citizen? Especially if born in the US?
How about permanent residents?
People under consideration for granting asylum? It is not against the law to present yourself at the border and request asylum, those are not illegals.
On a tourist visa?
I agree being able to sneak in and pop one out seems wrong on the face of it. The current 14th has simplicity going for it. Whatever replaces it will be messy and have it’s own unintended consequences.
So here's a future business model (I'm thinking up my sales pitch right now). I sell my USDA-certified seed to women overseas, who then have my baby with verifiable paternity and they are citizens? That's just a start point.To answer your questions, my thoughts are:
- The children of citizens, whether born inside or outside the US, should be citizens by birth.
We live in a brave new world, my friend.
What defines an illegal immigrant? Asylum seekers are not illegal if they present themselves at the border as such.- The children of illegal immigrants born in the US should not be citizens by birth.
Don’t believe everything you think.
Re: Should we end birthright citizenship?
Of course it's not the same thing. Amending the Constitution and changing the interpretation of a law are two entirely different things.
Re: your business idea, the child would be an American citizen, but the mother would not be.
What defines illegal immigrant? Anyone who enters the country without the appropriate status. As for asylum seekers, this is one of the major points of misunderstanding. International law requires them to file for asylum status at the first country they reach; thus the Guatemalans would have to apply for asylum in Mexico. They are not eligible for asylum in the US.
Re: your business idea, the child would be an American citizen, but the mother would not be.
What defines illegal immigrant? Anyone who enters the country without the appropriate status. As for asylum seekers, this is one of the major points of misunderstanding. International law requires them to file for asylum status at the first country they reach; thus the Guatemalans would have to apply for asylum in Mexico. They are not eligible for asylum in the US.
"I have longed for shipwrecks, for havoc and violent death.” - Havoc, T. Kristensen