Kettlebells for Running

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:57 pm

I don't do BJJ. My fitness is kettlebells, some chest and back at planet fitness and running or walking. My favorite activity is playing golf walking 18 and carrying my bag. I quit soccer due to old age and nagging injuries and might play hoop again in the fall we'll see.

You're right though, not the first time I said it.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:44 pm

Well I'm not arguing with you, I just think saying "SS sucks" without reference to where it fits in isn't the whole picture. If it was the only thing someone does, it's not enough, but if it's the only strength training an active athlete does, it easily could be.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:19 am

I think you can look at SS in two levels, one as a concept and then fleshing out the concept with actual movements.

Conceptually I think SS has some good things going for it. Some not so good. The concept that there is this "dose" if you will of exercise that done daily will have you in good enough shape to train. It is getting in shape to train....not training to get into shape. This dose is relatively small, high frequency, and does not need a lot of fluff. A couple of basic movements to cover the body done very frequently and it will keep you in good enough shape to pursue whatever physical endeavors you want.

GPP for life really. You want to body build? You will be in shape enough to start bodybuilding training. You want to play basketball, same thing. Run? Sure, why not. Your body will be strong, endurance good, etc. Not world class, but that is not the point.

Now the movements - you've got 100 swings and 10 get ups, done almost daily. Limited enough volume that you can go heavy. Limited enough volume that you can go daily. Whole body. What are we really looking at here.....20? 25 minutes?

I don't see anything wrong with the movements given what they are intended for.

Can you do better? Sure. We are all smart. I don't like 1 handed swings. I like 2 handed swings. Would my results really be different?

What if instead of 1 handed swings I did 1 handed cleans for 10 minutes an switched on the minute? And instead of a get up I did heavy 1 hand presses.

What if I did 50 double clean and presses in 20 minutes?

Or BW squats and pushups?

Or jogged for 20 minutes and bench pressed for 10?

I think there are lot of movement combos that done daily can prepare the whole body for training.

1 arm KB long cycle.

That being said, I don't see anything inherently wrong with SS except I think unless you are really into it doing it day in and day out forever is REALLY hard.

I never get tired of getting out for a walk/jog/run. I get really tired of doing get ups every damn day.
Last edited by newguy on Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:54 pm

^^^^^^^THIS IS WISDOM^^^^^^^^

THANK YOU

I should backtrack here and explain myself instead of being so general.

There is nothing wrong with doing getups and swings daily.

I love kettlebells and have been using them as my primary fitness tool over 10 years. I loved the fact there was a Metcon factor to it and so many different moves and how you could go from swing to clean to press to squat to row all without putting the bell down. I still think the snatch is the best move of all them.

My issue is if you go to kettlebell forums or even that subreddit, 75% of what is discussed is the daily program minimum. It's not the end all be all and has been blown way out of proportion in regard to its effectiveness. I'd rather, 2 days a week to 10-15 getups on each side and 300 swings doing 15-20 on the minute. Other days do something else.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:31 am

Well... now that we have established that S&S sucks at being a standalone program, let's discuss what would be a nice all-around KB centric program.

My choices would be:

- The Armor Building Complex (2 cleans, 1 press, 3 squats) on the minute plus pull ups.

- Left of Passage: 3x(1,2,3) of some clean and press (I would add squats) and a second combo of swings and loaded carries.

Or this one I use frequently:

Session A:
3x(1,2,3) front squat
3x(1,2,3) bent over row
3x(1,2,3) dip

Session A:
3x(1,2,3) clean
3x(1,2,3) press
3x(1,2,3) pull up

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Fat Cat » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:34 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:54 pm
^^^^^^^THIS IS WISDOM^^^^^^^^

THANK YOU

I should backtrack here and explain myself instead of being so general.

There is nothing wrong with doing getups and swings daily.

I love kettlebells and have been using them as my primary fitness tool over 10 years. I loved the fact there was a Metcon factor to it and so many different moves and how you could go from swing to clean to press to squat to row all without putting the bell down. I still think the snatch is the best move of all them.

My issue is if you go to kettlebell forums or even that subreddit, 75% of what is discussed is the daily program minimum. It's not the end all be all and has been blown way out of proportion in regard to its effectiveness. I'd rather, 2 days a week to 10-15 getups on each side and 300 swings doing 15-20 on the minute. Other days do something else.
It's an absolute, scientific certainty that SS sucked all the air out of the room as far as discussion of any other use of KBs goes. Can't argue with the truth.

I've often thought that it would be good if you just switched up the ballistic movement each day, but kept it basically the same. Just rotate through snatches, swings, cleans, jerks, and presses for a 100 reps, then do 10 getups and bounce. Would at least give you more variety.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:21 pm

Fat Cat wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:34 pm
It's an absolute, scientific certainty that SS sucked all the air out of the room as far as discussion of any other use of KBs goes. Can't argue with the truth.

I've often thought that it would be good if you just switched up the ballistic movement each day, but kept it basically the same. Just rotate through snatches, swings, cleans, jerks, and presses for a 100 reps, then do 10 getups and bounce. Would at least give you more variety.
I like this.

Ten sets of ten reps of any ballistic movement, followed/interspersed with ten sets of five reps of any grinding movement. It could be a magnificent "daily dose" program.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:00 pm

I did this yesterday with a 28 kg in my garage and it was tough

Ladders 3 rounds

One Clean and press L,R
10 Swings
50 jumps of rope

One clean and 2 presses L,R
20 Swings
75 jumps of rope

One Clean and 3 presses L,R
30 swings
100 jumps

Was aiming for 5 but I was really gassed.

I've also been doing 2,3 5 ladders of the press with the 28. Groove feels good. I prefer the 2 hand swing

I'd like the ballistics idea, but as I said on DJ's forum today, I am not a fan of standalone cleans.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:34 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:31 am
Well... now that we have established that S&S sucks at being a standalone program
The religion of S&S fascinates me. On StrongFirst forum a guys asks what to do: he struggles to TGU with 12 kg and can barely swing 16 kg. The suggestion that he should probably get stronger with other exercises - presses, squats etc. - is not met with any kind of positive. NO! YOU HAVE TO LEARN THE SWING AND TGU!

The BESTEST way to get strong drifts according to the Pavel's latest book. From PTTP to ROP to S&S. I wonder what's coming in the next book. I am guessing it will be along the lines of Strong Endurance. Apparently it starts with the tale of two leopards...

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Err... Would?...
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:54 am

I saw an ad for that new book. Lazy, do explosive pushups and one hand swings. Yawn. Can't wait to see the reviews feeling swole after 2 weeks in the arms and lost 3 inches in the waist.

At least Dan John puts out interesting material.

The only thing TGU's make you better at is TGU's. And that's fine.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:07 pm

Hanglow Joe wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:54 am
I saw an ad for that new book. Lazy, do explosive pushups and one hand swings. Yawn. Can't wait to see the reviews feeling swole after 2 weeks in the arms and lost 3 inches in the waist.

At least Dan John puts out interesting material.

The only thing TGU's make you better at is TGU's. And that's fine.
A truly masterclass on how to squeeze some random topic forever.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:27 pm

The antelope was grazing, oblivious of the superbly camouflaged cat stealthily closing in. The predator flowed like mercury, hugging the terrain.

It was a busy day in the savannah, but only one pair of eyes was tracking the leopard. My friend George had put in his time in Africa fighting poachers and he knew how to see without being seen. Recently he had been entertaining himself timing big cats’ hunts.

The blurry spot in the tall grass became a straw-colored streak. The antelope made a desperate run for its life, a run that was blissfully short. The panthera leaped. Her jaws, powerful enough to crush thick bones, closed on her prey’s neck.

It was over in 16 seconds. The proud hunter stood tall, surveyed her surroundings the way a big boss would, and made a brief “fast and loose” victory dance. Then she picked up her dinner, which was bigger than herself, and climbed a tree with it.

“It would be like you climbing a tree holding me in your teeth,” commented George, who has good 50 pounds on me. And that was no feat for a leopard that can climb with carcasses three times her bodyweight.

Leopard carrying her prey up a tree
Then George told me of another leopard hunt he had witnessed, very different from the first.

The male cat did not have it easy. Age was taking its toll and one of his front paws was infected. A thorn was wedged in it, a common hazard to alpha predators in the wild.

He also made his kill, but, as he was slower, he had to work harder and longer to bring the antelope down. Then he was unable to get to a tree fast enough to stash his cat food—and was attacked by a pack of opportunistic hyenas.

The tom fought hard and well and the hyenas ran off with their tails between their legs. George stopped his timer at four minutes.

Luckily, the hyenas did not return. Exhausted, the old tom lay panting on the ground. Can you even imagine a cat panting? It is below the dignity of a cat.

Finally, the old leopard got his bad breath back and dragged his dinner to the safety of a tree.

A few months later, George watched the same leopard retire to a cave to die. That is what they do.

Earn Your Leopard Spots
The second leopard hunt exemplifies the mentality of today’s “high intensity interval training.” Dramatic, inefficient, costly. I admire the old cat’s tough style, given his circumstances of age taking its toll—but his heroics are not something to emulate on a Wednesday night at the gym.

In contrast, the Quick and the Dead regimen (Q&D) was inspired by the first cat. Not a single set exceeds the duration of her ferocious 16-second kill. Power undiluted by fatigue is not heroic; it is professional.

The Q&D protocol was designed to maximize your performance at a lowest biological cost—and to leave you fresh and able to perform at a high level, physically and mentally, at any time.

You will get powerful. Very powerful.

While power is awesome for its own sake, training it in a particular manner also delivers a wide range of “what the hell effects.” Muscle hypertrophy. Fat loss. Endurance. Anti-fragility. Anti-aging.

Plus, Q&D will enable you to make greater strength gains if you are also lifting.

Q&D can be a minimalist’s stand-alone, total training method. Or make a quality addition to any athlete’s regimen.

Q&D does not beat up the body and takes only 12–30 minutes per training session, two to three times per week.

Q&D was designed to minimize detraining when circumstances force you to lay off or cut back. If you get a hare-brained idea to take an entire month off all training and then go back to your boxing class and pretend you never left, you will suffer less than expected.

Real Results
A US special operator I will call “Mark” is an accomplished boxer, wrestler, and powerlifter. His strength has enabled him to stay in the fight into his mid-40s. Then he added a Q&D swing and pushup plan to his training—back when it was called “StrongFirst Experimental Protocol 033.”

I have completed the six-week 033C template. I did it as a warm-up for my powerlifts three days a week, always for 30 minutes. I noticed a speed increase in all my powerlifts and pain relief of all of my injuries.

I also found an increase in endurance while doing combatives. And as my hips developed more explosive movement, my speed came up, creating increased striking power. The big game changer I noticed was my hip movement in grappling. I am able to maximize force through explosive hip movement, coincidentally making me less tired.

I am more efficient with energy by driving my hips and getting “heavy” on my opponent. Combining that force with leverage has me launching big dudes like children. By getting my hips under and driving up versus using my arms and back during takedowns and throws has made me more efficient and explosive.

…I lost nine pounds and, based on my visual composition, I would say it was fat loss. I gave up sugar at the same time, so I would say it is a combination of factors. My arms have definitely gotten bigger.

Overall, I found the 033C enjoyable and meditative. I was able to go into a flow state and felt I could go on forever. After not touching a kettlebell in a few years, I felt this was a great way to get things going again.

I need to get a larger kettlebell!

Strong Women
Q&D is every bit as applicable to the female of the species as it is to the male. Did you know that in a lion pride, it is the lionesses that do most of the hunting?

Other than opening doors for them, at StrongFirst we do not treat women any differently than men. We do not disrespect them with any nonsense about “long, lean muscle” or “shaping the female problem areas.” So when Italian athlete Ilaria Scopece, SFG/SFB, approached Fabio Zonin for training advice while preparing for an important competition, the Master SFG gave her the same 033 plan that became Q&D. Ilaria weighs as much as a 48kg Beast kettlebell—only she is a lot more dangerous. Scopece is the number-three ranked professional light flyweight boxer in Europe.


Ilaria Scopece, the number-three ranked professional light flyweight boxer in Europe and a StrongFirst certified instructor
Starting with 15 reps in the 30-second timed test with a 20kg kettlebell in the one-arm hard style swing, in a few months, Ilaria did 21 reps. That 40-percent increase would have been notable on its own, but the fighter did it with 24kg—a 20-percent weight increase.

Where in the pre-test she lifted 300 pounds of iron in half a minute, in the post-test the lady put up over 500. For perspective, her performance is identical to that of a 200-pound man doing 21 crisp and perfect one-arm swings in 30 seconds with a Beast.

But kettlebells do not strike back. Ilaria’s performance in the ring is far more important than her swing and pushup numbers. Her boxing coach put her through a test: 10 rounds, alternating between two experienced sparring partners, both 15-percent heavier than her.

“While sparring with my partners, I realized I had even greater speed and explosiveness and I was able to maintain this for the whole match…I had gas to sell.”

In her next fight, Ilaria knocked out her opponent from Eastern Europe 37 seconds into the first round. Next stop—the European pro title fight. Stay tuned.

We have many great stories like these.

Q&D: Not for Everyone
But The Quick and the Dead is not for everyone.

Q&D is not for beginners. When we tested various experimental plans, we discovered that while everyone improved on Q&D, to our great surprise, experienced athletes improved the most. Fighters, military special operators, professional baseball players, motocross riders, and guys who could press the Beast for reps made much more dramatic progress—in both absolute and relative terms—than ladies and gents who were still working their way up to the Simple standard of Kettlebell Simple & Sinister.

While this should not make any sense, we concluded there were good reasons for this paradox.

First, Q&D training demands a foundation of strength. Without a rock-solid midsection that comes from paying dues to heavy metal or high tension, there is no way of expressing one’s max power. As Dr. Fred Hatfield quipped decades ago, “You cannot shoot a cannon from a canoe.”

Second, power is a learned skill. A low-level athlete seems to need the artificial resistance of muscle congestion to exert against. He or she is unable to just explode against a moderate weight. As a result, a relative beginner lacks the intensity needed to produce the desired metabolic events, finds the Q&D protocol ridiculously easy, and only nets a partial adaptation. S&S, which on the power-to-acid continuum lies somewhere between Q&D and HIIT, is the perfect program for this athlete.

Finally, it is a matter of personality. While some individuals are “cats,” most are “dogs” or “persistence hunters.” Solitary cats are masters of brief and explosive bursts; persistence hunters wear their prey down. Dogs feel the burn somewhere in between.

That said, even if you are not a “natural cat,” you have a lot to gain from training like one—at least as your secondary modality. We have seen high-level athletes get excellent results from adding Q&D to their endurance training.

In addition to watching out for your health, Q&D will improve the quality of your life.

“Metcons” ravage your system with acid, free radicals, and toxic ammonia. They deplete your muscles’ energy pool in a manner similar to chronic fatigue syndrome and leave your carcass sore, tired, and injury-prone. They burn you out mentally, wreak havoc with your hormones, and make you feel like hell. Are you willing to pay such a high price for getting “in shape”? And if you are, say, a first responder, is it fair to the citizens you will be saving?

The choice is yours: Be quick or be dead.
I'm calling bullshit.

On all of it. I'm calling bullshit on the premise. Bullshit on the testimonials. I'm calling bullshit on the entire house of cards.

I'm not saying that there isn't value to brief power work. I think that the "dose" of exercise we need to be well, be mobile, be strong (enough) is low. And for active busy people, you can achieve a lot in 20 minutes.

But for a long time now, probably since the beginning, Pavel's base level messaging has completely taken the joy out of physical fitness. It is always doing X for the sole purpose of achieving X. And doing as little of it as possible because X is not fun.

I am not a military operator. I am not a boxer. I work in a school. I enjoy exercising. I enjoy training. I like going out and running until I'm tired. I like trying to lift weights. I don't want to workout less. I want to workout more.

And what Pavel is selling flies in the face of everything I've ever seen.

What happened to the windmill? What happened to trying to press two kettlebells at once? Snatching the kettlebell. Flipping the bell when you swing it? Hand to hand swings? Even the turkish get up. The turkish get up was FUN. It was new. Taking a weight and standing up with it? Why not?????

Double front squats. Single bell squats. All of it should be fun.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:30 pm

Pavel is a meme, but I don't really understand your criticism. He's just saying do the minimal dose of strength training so that you CAN spend the rest of your training time doing something fun like hiking, surfing, BJJ, or softball.

That said a program of swings and pushups sounds gay AF.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:04 pm

My criticism is not with the concept of a minimal dose of exercise, which is something I actually agree with and appreciate.

I think my criticism is with the fact that taken as a whole, the entire body of Pavel's work has been stripping exercise and strength training down to an activity that is purely functional. For Pavel and the StrongFirst crowd, training has no value inherent to itself. It is an ends to a mean and nothing more. I am countering that training, lifting, kettlebells, running, all of it is fun in and of itself. You don't have to bench press only to increase upper body strength. You can bench press because laying on a bench, lowering a weight to your chest, and pushing it off is awesome. It is fun.

There are different reasons to train and a military operator or boxer or pro athlete needs a different prescription than regular people. But conversely regular people need a different prescription as well because the goals are different.

Also built into this is an idea that exercise and training hard is inherently bad. Your telomere length will decrease. Testosterone will decrease. Etc. Etc. I don't buy that either.

And the leopard story was stupid. That is probably my biggest criticism. The fucking leopards.

That being said I've no doubt that pushups and swings can bring good results so whatever.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Fat Cat » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:42 pm

I liked S&S and will check out Q&D but the leopard shit is undeniably cringe. The whole SF crowd just seems to have the sincerity of a retard mixed with a lethal dose of dick riding.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:13 pm

Only 20 minutes to train? Do 200 snatches. I agree with newguy. This is fucking gay. Want to get explosion, do some hill sprints. Powerful swing ain't going to do it. Mike Mahler put out a section in one of his books about explosive strength. That was the REAL DEAL, not this shit.

No more original ideas left. Check out that forum, the whole thing is S + S, the circus trick known as the bent press, and A + A You might get one good thread a week about real kettlebelling

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:32 am

newguy wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:04 pm

I think my criticism is with the fact that taken as a whole, the entire body of Pavel's work has been stripping exercise and strength training down to an activity that is purely functional. For Pavel and the StrongFirst crowd, training has no value inherent to itself. It is an ends to a mean and nothing more. I am countering that training, lifting, kettlebells, running, all of it is fun in and of itself. You don't have to bench press only to increase upper body strength. You can bench press because laying on a bench, lowering a weight to your chest, and pushing it off is awesome. It is fun.
I wanted to say the same. Exercise as medicine - lowest effective dose with minimal side effects - is one goal, but a lot of us do stuff for fun. BJJ is a good example: most will never compete or get in a fight, it's simply great fun to wrestle.
And the leopard story was stupid. That is probably my biggest criticism. The fucking leopards.
Quite a few fitness authors fall to the animal metaphors. Are you a caged animal or free animal? What kind of leopard are you, quick and swift or elderly and slow - and died soon after these lines were written. Supple leopard?
That being said I've no doubt that pushups and swings can bring good results so whatever.
And so can pullups and squats, farmers walks and presses, sled push and sprints, somersaults and handstand pushups, one leg Hungarian Hamster sack twists and inverted tactical one arm back throws. Each combination - one book, about 150 pages. Explain why this exercise is THE ONE to build THE THING in question, 40 page each, lay out the training program with Russian block wave periodization template, fill the rest with success stories of military operators, women and elderly people.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:35 am

Having posted all this shit above I hope the book will be about alactic antiglycolytic training in general with a few "protocols" they teach at their Strong Endurance seminars. It's a fairly novel concept and can potentially change the way we train for certain qualities. We'll know in two days.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:28 pm

Sangoma wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:35 am
Having posted all this shit above I hope the book will be about alactic antiglycolytic training in general with a few "protocols" they teach at their Strong Endurance seminars. It's a fairly novel concept and can potentially change the way we train for certain qualities. We'll know in two days.
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Who knows? Maybe all this A+A stuff might evolve into some kind of non-retarded-X-fit.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Turdacious » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:27 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:42 pm
I liked S&S and will check out Q&D but the leopard shit is undeniably cringe. The whole SF crowd just seems to have the sincerity of a retard mixed with a lethal dose of dick riding.
Funny you mention that. Guess who their Director of Community Engagement is?
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 pm

The WTH effect is a myth anyway.

Strongfirst rolls all this shit out the the folks who are 100% bought in.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:58 pm

The big deal is that you can't actually find reviews for this shit that aren't from members of StrongFirst. The book isn't going to be available for awhile, except that it's 'available now'...it's actually some weird preorder strategy

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:58 pm
The big deal is that you can't actually find reviews for this shit that aren't from members of StrongFirst. The book isn't going to be available for awhile, except that it's 'available now'...it's actually some weird preorder strategy
And I suspect that Smet's latest articles are going to be more useful than the Q&D book.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:57 am

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 pm
The WTH effect is a myth anyway.

Strongfirst rolls all this shit out the the folks who are 100% bought in.
I don't want to take a crap on the WTH effect because in my experience, there is such a thing. It's not solely limited to KBs (although they do work really well for a lot of things.) And it's not completely uncommon.

Anti WTH example one - when I was a young lad filled with piss and vigor and a naturally decent hormone profile, the gym I worked out in got the hammer machine incline press. And it was a wonderful machine. My friends and I hit that like....well you all can figure out apt comparisons. But we worked the shit out of that machine. We piled the weight on that thing. Our arms, chest, shoulders all got bigger and sexy.

Not one gym number or performance indicator improved.

At this age I could care less. If I had one of those bad boys here at my house my entire training log would be me piling 45s on it and posting shirtless pics. But the point is it did not improve any thing else.

Pro WTH without KB example two and three - once a long ways back I was going to do a 35 mile walk. The only training I did was the YRG book routine. I don't remember exactly how long but I did that thing for a while back then. And I did the 35 mile walk and it wasn't that bad. Loosening all the muscles and joints and tendons with the corresponding cardio hit worked. My feet hurt but I think of it as a WTH effect. Another pro WTH argument - running. Whenever I get better at running i get better at things. Moving. Moving through space. Etc. Basketball. Walking. Cardio. Running is the ultimate WTH effect.

I don't know where I'm going with all this except to say that training makes things easier and some types of training make a lot of things easier beyond what you specifically training.
"When I was little, my father was famous. He was the greatest samurai in the empire. And he was the Shogun's decapitator. He cut off the heads of a 131 Lords. It was a bad time for the empire."

JasonC
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by JasonC » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:16 am

According to the first Amazon review, apparently by a tame SF insider with pre-publication access, "If you are a beginner, start with the author's book Kettlebell Simple & Sinister. Seriously. Otherwise you'll hurt yourself." I'm excited to see how they'll explain the danger to which you'll subject yourself if you're foolhardy enough to plunge directly into the Tactical Feline Zone without first passing through the school of warriors known as S&S.

Hype aside, this A+A stuff works great for me. Did Pavel invent it, or even introduce it to the US? No, Maffetone and Sonnon got there first, and in practice I think Dan John has been doing this stuff (e.g. swing sandwiches) for a long time. Nevertheless, it's good stuff, just overhyped.

A great "alternate universe" experiment would be a clone world where Pavel never drifted off into ETK and "program minimum" and instead he blew on the embers of interest in GS. Would America have gotten more out of it than out of the Hard Style shit? "Well he couldn't have peddled GS," you might say, "because GS is too boring! Nobody would want to do it." But if GS is boring, ETK is downright Zen-level tedium, and S&S is fucking catatonic. Hell, he could have spiced it up by inventing FitSport or whatever Valery called it. That's got enough variety to keep you from committing suicide, and it lends itself to informal competition better than the TSC.

Or you might say, "Well Pavel couldn't afford to encourage GS, not without foregoing a great cert-based business model, because he wasn't that good at GS. There were plenty of Russians with better GS cred than he had." But I don't think that was really a problem. Pavel's genius was always information arbitrage: he vacuumed up Russian-language publications, synthesized and digested and boiled it down, and then he disseminated it in a way that the American public would get pumped up about. He could have done that with Russian GS lit just as well as he did with PTTP Pro. Federenko had enough GS street cred to stretch from here to Kyrgyzstan, but Pavel had the elegant English, the personal charisma, the JDC promotional flair, the SRKC helpers, and the "Party" sycophants on the DD board. I don't think he won the competition with VF because he had a more intrinsically appealing product--I suspect he could have been selling plain vanilla GS and done just as well. He was just way the fuck better at selling stuff and creating a subculture to buy it.

Some of you were insiders to DD or AKC shit, and I never even went to an RKC. (So proud of that now!) Is there stuff I'm missing that overturns my theory?

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