Kettlebells for Running

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:43 am

They didn't even invent this shit. Phil Campbell did Ready Set Go long before any of these fools had any traction. His idea was basing your training on the exercises and protocols that worked best for HGH release. It was all power and short sprint shit. Kicks. Power cleans. As far as I can tell he invented the sprint 8.

This is all either bullshit re-packaged (not that there is anything wrong with that) or these dotards really believe they are onto something new (which is self deception and I do find something wrong with that.)

ANYWAYS......

At this point in my my life I am at the point where, in regards to training, I know what I need to know. I don't need to buy any more books. I don't need any more protocols. I don't see the potential of anything new on horizon that would drastically alter my basic approach.

Unless somebody releases the "drink more BEER for more GAINZ" system, I'm good.

I bought Starting Strength......but I am officially skipping out on the Quick and the Dead.

I'm done.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:44 am

That all being said, Jaime Lewis has a new book out and if I get fifty extra bones I'll buy that shit because I appreciate what he is doing.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:26 pm

newguy wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:44 am
That all being said, Jaime Lewis has a new book out and if I get fifty extra bones I'll buy that shit because I appreciate what he is doing.
Care to elaborate further?

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:40 pm

newguy wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:43 am
At this point in my my life I am at the point where, in regards to training, I know what I need to know. I don't need to buy any more books. I don't need any more protocols. I don't see the potential of anything new on horizon that would drastically alter my basic approach.
Shaf (lazy fuck) should finish his book on ladders. Even if only to spite the cohort of Pavel's nuthuggers.

A recent thread over the SF forum sprouted a heated discussion where some asshole was apparently very angry at Shaf for stealing Pavel's ideas.

It was a fun reading.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by newguy » Fri Jul 26, 2019 3:01 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:26 pm
newguy wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:44 am
That all being said, Jaime Lewis has a new book out and if I get fifty extra bones I'll buy that shit because I appreciate what he is doing.
Care to elaborate further?
Jamie Lewis (Chaos and Pain or what is now called Heretical Strength) has a new book. Anti Programming or something.

While I don't train like Jamie, at all, I do appreciate that for multiple years he has put out what I consider to be unique content and well researched articles. You can take or leave his writing style. I like it.

He is out there on the fringes doing his thing.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by JasonC » Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:38 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:40 pm
A recent thread over the SF forum sprouted a heated discussion where some asshole was apparently very angry at Shaf for stealing Pavel's ideas.

It was a fun reading.
Link please.

Also, WTF is this new thing where they hold their fists up in fighting guard? Maybe I'm a hypocrite, but I chuckle at the cert-seeking bourgeois yoga pants crowd's MMA cock worship.
leansoliddogs.blog

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:28 pm

Really? Because fucking Pavel put my ladder bit in Easy Strength without asking me, he may have asked Dan John since the material was form Dan's newsletter, but Dan didn't ask me about putting it in Easy Strength either.

Plus I fully credit Pavel with the genesis of the idea from "Chain Yourself To the Squat Rack and Call Me in a Year" or whatever the fuck that was.

I couldn't find that thread, I found one thread suggesting people read "Shaf's Ladders" but that was it

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:33 pm

Here it is apparent that Friedes things girevoy sport is the Highland Games, in his typical myopic fashion.

Sean M said:
I believe the girevoy sport people give the skeptical face to hard style, thinking it odd.
Steve Friedes said:
I find men in kilts throwing trees odd. Powerfully swinging a kettlebell, on the other hand, seems quite normal and is quite widely accepted - more than girevoy sport, I'd venture to say.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:17 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:28 pm
Really? Because fucking Pavel put my ladder bit in Easy Strength without asking me, he may have asked Dan John since the material was form Dan's newsletter, but Dan didn't ask me about putting it in Easy Strength either.

Plus I fully credit Pavel with the genesis of the idea from "Chain Yourself To the Squat Rack and Call Me in a Year" or whatever the fuck that was.

I couldn't find that thread, I found one thread suggesting people read "Shaf's Ladders" but that was it
My bad: it was the KB subreddit (the level of nuthuggerism there is staggering).

https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/com ... _the_work/

“The Ladder is a set/rep progression volume and fatigue management scheme that a friend and I came up with some time ago after reading some other literature on strength training. We wanted to work on the “skill” aspect of strength training, while remaining as fresh as possible.” — Steve Shafley

I really hate it when some people try to take credit for something that has already been created by someone else. The passage quoted from the article was posted in 2015...9 years post Enter the Kettlebell.

Even the last line smacks of Naked Warrior and Grease the Groove.

Both these methods of training appeared 9 years or more before this was posted.

C'mon, folks. Give credit where it is due. In the day and age of the internet, you'll be much more credible.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:04 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:57 pm
The WTH effect is a myth anyway.

Strongfirst rolls all this shit out the the folks who are 100% bought in.
I said that about 10 days ago on the SF forum. I called it "newbie gains." In other news, looks like Geoff Neupert is back doing the fitness thing. Which is a GREAT thing. I don't know how the S + S warriors would be able to handle doing, gasp, double snatches.

ETK was Pavel's masterpiece. Since then, ROTK, for more advanced lifters, and S+S a glorified Program Minimum.

Deadlift Dynamie was good on Andy's side of things. I'm not doing hardstyle planks or bottoms up carries. I iike my teeth the way they are.

After 6 months, if you can't figure out your own program, you have issues.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Hanglow Joe » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:27 pm

I spoke to soon about being glad Geoff Neupert being back. He has turned his back on his MetCon methods, AKA Kettlebell Muscle and More Kettlebell Muscle.

What happened did he become broke and lose everything? Finally convinced his Z-Health training is snake oil?

This review below about the Quick and The Dead is Ballwashing at its finest. Someone provide Pavel a towel to dry his nut sack. Good God, this is pathetic


Geoff Neupert’s Review of Q&D
I'd Give This 6 Stars If I Could. This is the “advanced” book many of us have been waiting for from Pavel for the last 4 years or so.

I can understand why it took him so long to write. In his own words -

“This book did not start out as a power-centric guide to total fitness with a health twist. The original intention was to write only about improving endurance for high-power applications by training the mitochondria.” (p.21)

Devoid of fluff or filler, Pavel, simply, and elegantly, with his usual wry humor, explains his new training protocols from the distillation of mind-numbingly complex biochemistry, Russian sports science, and his own team’s empirical data. And as a result, he produces the perfect - or as close to perfect as you can get - advanced minimalist, power training program.

Why a “Power Training” Program?

Why not a strength training program or a “conditioning” program?

You’ll discover that on pp. 11-14. And it will delight you. Say ‘goodbye’ to more-of-the-same nausea-inducing, energy-sapping “MetCon.”

Why Minimalist?

Simple - once you’ve crested 40, or you have a family (or both), you’ll discover life is WAY too short to spend it “working out.” Training, should be a means to an end - a richer, more satisfying, and fulfilling life. (At least that’s my vantage point.)

Why Advanced?

You need to be proficient in the fundamentals of kettlebell training - at the bare minimum, the 2-hand HardStyle Swing.

And Results?

The early adopters’ results are more-than-impressive - Strength increases in presses and pull-ups without training those lifts… Muscle mass accumulation - a pound of mass per week without bodybuilding… Drastically shaving times off road races without specific VO2Max training… Improving cardiac health, hormonal profiles and reversing the aging processes as measured thru telomere testing without fancy supplements -

All from either a simple two-exercise or one exercise program - your choice - performed between 12 and 30 minutes, 2 to 3 times per week.

I predict “The Quick & The Dead” will be a Game Changer, not only for many kettlebell enthusiasts, but for the entire Fitness and Strength & Conditioning industries (hopefully). In fact, Peter Park, a world champion triathlete, and strength & conditioning coach to many professional athletes (including Lance Armstrong) is an early adopter who’s all-star roster are already loving the benefits.

Quite honestly, as a long-time reader of Pavel’s books (2001), a former StrongFirst Master Instructor, and someone who’s been “in the game” for almost 30 years, this could be Pavel’s best work to date. It’s THAT good. And THAT revolutionary.

If you are at all interested in becoming a better functioning human being and more productive member of society, you’d be foolish to pass up this book, especially at this dirt cheap price.

And if you, like me, had been wondering when Pavel was going to publish a new book, I think like me, you'll find that "The Quick & The Dead" was well worth the wait.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:03 am

Fat Cat wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:42 pm
I liked S&S and will check out Q&D but the leopard shit is undeniably cringe. The whole SF crowd just seems to have the sincerity of a retard mixed with a lethal dose of dick riding.
Steve Freides makes sure it stays this way indefinitely.

Mind you, I will check out Q&D, even though I expect its fluff to essence ratio about 10:1.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:56 pm

Redditors are, in general, myopic in their acquisition of knowledge. I read that thread, but am not going to start arguing on Reddit with the group with people who get their knowledge third or fourth hand.

SubClaw wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:17 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:28 pm
Really? Because fucking Pavel put my ladder bit in Easy Strength without asking me, he may have asked Dan John since the material was form Dan's newsletter, but Dan didn't ask me about putting it in Easy Strength either.

Plus I fully credit Pavel with the genesis of the idea from "Chain Yourself To the Squat Rack and Call Me in a Year" or whatever the fuck that was.

I couldn't find that thread, I found one thread suggesting people read "Shaf's Ladders" but that was it
My bad: it was the KB subreddit (the level of nuthuggerism there is staggering).

https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/com ... _the_work/

“The Ladder is a set/rep progression volume and fatigue management scheme that a friend and I came up with some time ago after reading some other literature on strength training. We wanted to work on the “skill” aspect of strength training, while remaining as fresh as possible.” — Steve Shafley

I really hate it when some people try to take credit for something that has already been created by someone else. The passage quoted from the article was posted in 2015...9 years post Enter the Kettlebell.

Even the last line smacks of Naked Warrior and Grease the Groove.

Both these methods of training appeared 9 years or more before this was posted.

C'mon, folks. Give credit where it is due. In the day and age of the internet, you'll be much more credible.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Shafpocalypse Now » Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:01 pm

Neupert decided retirement apparently cost more that he thought, so he's up for round 2 of shilling for pavel and making derivative materials

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Titus66 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:37 pm

Dunn wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:56 pm
A former DD turned strong sport guy, Britt Buckingham, made pretty good use of timed sets of OA swings to train HR and legs to avoid the impact injuries related to running. Ended up running a marathon without killing his knees with the mileage normally associated with training for one, I’d like to say he did about half the normal mileage that is recommended by most training programs. He still ran, but his volume was much less.
I became friends with Britt, went to train with him a few times, along with my wife, and he came up with a training plan for her to prepare for a half-marathon. She wasn’t a runner, but wanted to join our daughters, so did the training so she could have the experience along side them. I just found the old emails about three weeks ago, but basically, the idea was to determine your HR for an average 1-3 mile run, or whatever yours is, and to mimic that HR range while doing snatches & swings. This was her primary workout 2-3 times a week and only running 2x/week.
With her not being a runner, the program worked great from what I remember, although it’s been several years ago.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by aussie luke » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:17 pm

Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:56 pm
Redditors are, in general, myopic in their acquisition of knowledge. I read that thread, but am not going to start arguing on Reddit with the group with people who get their knowledge third or fourth hand.

SubClaw wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:17 pm
Shafpocalypse Now wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:28 pm
Really? Because fucking Pavel put my ladder bit in Easy Strength without asking me, he may have asked Dan John since the material was form Dan's newsletter, but Dan didn't ask me about putting it in Easy Strength either.

Plus I fully credit Pavel with the genesis of the idea from "Chain Yourself To the Squat Rack and Call Me in a Year" or whatever the fuck that was.

I couldn't find that thread, I found one thread suggesting people read "Shaf's Ladders" but that was it
My bad: it was the KB subreddit (the level of nuthuggerism there is staggering).

https://www.reddit.com/r/kettlebell/com ... _the_work/

“The Ladder is a set/rep progression volume and fatigue management scheme that a friend and I came up with some time ago after reading some other literature on strength training. We wanted to work on the “skill” aspect of strength training, while remaining as fresh as possible.” — Steve Shafley

I really hate it when some people try to take credit for something that has already been created by someone else. The passage quoted from the article was posted in 2015...9 years post Enter the Kettlebell.

Even the last line smacks of Naked Warrior and Grease the Groove.

Both these methods of training appeared 9 years or more before this was posted.

C'mon, folks. Give credit where it is due. In the day and age of the internet, you'll be much more credible.
Lol. That garbage started because I mentioned Tom Furman in another post. Someone got interested and shared that article about ladders.

I wanted to smack that twat down straight away with your original ladders post but it doesn’t exist anymore.

I only discovered that subreddit the other day while trying to see what the new pavel book is about.

Now I regret everything.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by aussie luke » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:42 pm

SubClaw wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:31 am
Well... now that we have established that S&S sucks at being a standalone program, let's discuss what would be a nice all-around KB centric program.

My choices would be:

- The Armor Building Complex (2 cleans, 1 press, 3 squats) on the minute plus pull ups.

- Left of Passage: 3x(1,2,3) of some clean and press (I would add squats) and a second combo of swings and loaded carries.

Or this one I use frequently:

Session A:
3x(1,2,3) front squat
3x(1,2,3) bent over row
3x(1,2,3) dip

Session A:
3x(1,2,3) clean
3x(1,2,3) press
3x(1,2,3) pull up
For the past 3-4 weeks I’ve been using an idea from a Tom Furman blog post - alternating days of S&S with days of simple full-body bodyweight workout.

Also I generally hate getups because I lift in my garden and it’s either too cold or too spider and dust infested to roll around on the ground, so I do the swings and then one arm kb presses - either sets of 5 with the 24kg or sets of 2 with the 32 - up to 10 sets per side.

Eg

Monday:
swings and presses

Tuesday:
airborne lunge 10 x 5/5
Pushup 10 x 5 with a weight on my back, or explosive pushups, OR dips
Chins or pull-ups 10 x 2-5
...done as a circuit with not much rest but not racing either.

Repeat


At a time when work is busy and stressful as fuck and my wife is about to give birth to our third baby this is perfect training for me that I can do at home or in the office gym in 20-30 mins and it seems to be the best of both worlds.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:41 am

SubClaw wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:31 am
Well... now that we have established that S&S sucks at being a standalone program...
I am not so sure anymore. Is it possible to have flimsy arms if all you do is deadlift and your PR is two and a half times your bodyweight? Unlikely. Similarly, if you can pull off 100 swings in 5 minutes with 48 kg bell (and 10 TGUs in 10 minutes) I think you will be in a pretty good shape. And as Newguy said, there are more than one combination of duo exercises that can get you there. The trick is to find a combination that will have reasonable transfer to whatever each of us considers relevant.

I guess it depends on the purposes and goals. Minimalist programs may be somewhat one sided, but on the other hand they are very focused on only a few movements and let you develop expertise in those faster. As the supplement for other sports S&S may be a very reasonable way to train. Same as PTTP, RTK, RTK+, Easy Strength etc.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by SubClaw » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:26 am

Sangoma wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:41 am
SubClaw wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:31 am
Well... now that we have established that S&S sucks at being a standalone program...
I am not so sure anymore. Is it possible to have flimsy arms if all you do is deadlift and your PR is two and a half times your bodyweight? Unlikely. Similarly, if you can pull off 100 swings in 5 minutes with 48 kg bell (and 10 TGUs in 10 minutes) I think you will be in a pretty good shape. And as Newguy said, there are more than one combination of duo exercises that can get you there. The trick is to find a combination that will have reasonable transfer to whatever each of us considers relevant.

I guess it depends on the purposes and goals. Minimalist programs may be somewhat one sided, but on the other hand they are very focused on only a few movements and let you develop expertise in those faster. As the supplement for other sports S&S may be a very reasonable way to train. Same as PTTP, RTK, RTK+, Easy Strength etc.
Minimalistic programs are the only way I train since... well over a decade. I love PttP, Tactical Barbell, Armor of War, the Armor Building Complex, 5x5x5, anything Easy Strength...

Doing TGUs against the clock is beyond retarded. That's why S&S sucks. Big time.

I wouldn't have anything against doing 10x10 swings and thrusters in ten minutes. But trying to rush a TGU is idiotic.

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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:26 pm

I don't think the idea is to rush TGU. It's to get strong enough so that you can do certain number of them in predetermined time. Same as the swings. Pavel says you should use the talk test: start the new set when you can talk without losing breath. Gradually you are able to compress rest and get to 10x10 in 10 minutes. The same with TGUs: do one on the minute alternating sides up until the form starts breaking. At that point stop. In a way similar to Maffetone method for aerobics: becoming faster is the side effect of consistently working at MAF HR.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Fat Cat » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:13 am

Ya, you're not really supposed to do it against the clock, per se. You just do ten at a given weight until it becomes very easy to do it in under the allotted time.
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Re: Kettlebells for Running

Post by Sangoma » Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:11 am

I also think you can substitute TGU for something else, like OA press and do it in any fashion you like, eventually being able to press X pounds Y times in Z minutes.
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