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Forums › Free Speech › My Body My Choice!
A man should always protect himself gold digging hos, just like he should from Covid.
Covid is contagious. Pregnancy is not.
First of all, I’m pretty sure it does take a second party to get pregnant. Second, you are welcome to get vaccinated, as is everyone else. So…what’s the problem? Why so hypocritical?
I don’t get the connection. They seem like two different things.
I don’t think there is any general Covid 19 vax mandate. Outside of Newsmax and Tucker Carlson, no one is talking about about the feds going door to door, pulling you out of the house and jabbing you.
Employers will mandate the vaccine. But I work in a school so that’s nothing new to me. We have vaccines we have to have both as employees and for our students. And when I went to college I had to get a bunch of vaccines too.
At this point, given the efficacy of the vaccine with the current strains, I am completely comfortable. I got vaccinated and am glad I did. If someone else is not vaccinated, their choice. At this point it doesn’t hurt me so what do I care?
And if someone’s employer is mandating the vaccine and they don’t want to get it, well welcome to America. Corporations rule.
I don’t get the connection. They seem like two different things. I don’t think there is any general Covid 19 vax mandate. Outside of Newsmax and Tucker Carlson, no one is talking about about the feds going door to door, pulling you out of the house and jabbing you. Employers will mandate the vaccine. But I work in a school so that’s nothing new to me. We have vaccines we have to have both as employees and for our students. And when I went to college I had to get a bunch of vaccines too. At this point, given the efficacy of the vaccine with the current strains, I am completely comfortable. I got vaccinated and am glad I did. If someone else is not vaccinated, their choice. At this point it doesn’t hurt me so what do I care? And if someone’s employer is mandating the vaccine and they don’t want to get it, well welcome to America. Corporations rule.
This is a version of, “it’ll never happen and when it does you’ll deserve it.” On the one hand you say you don’t see the parallel, on the other you say no one is being coerced, and then again, they are but hey it’s America and corporations have all the power. Which is it?
And anyway, you haven’t even addressed the basic question: how can liberal women and their supporters demand agency over their bodies for abortions, but not vaccines? That’s a patently obvious dissonance.
I don’t get the connection. They seem like two different things. I don’t think there is any general Covid 19 vax mandate. Outside of Newsmax and Tucker Carlson, no one is talking about about the feds going door to door, pulling you out of the house and jabbing you. Employers will mandate the vaccine. But I work in a school so that’s nothing new to me. We have vaccines we have to have both as employees and for our students. And when I went to college I had to get a bunch of vaccines too. At this point, given the efficacy of the vaccine with the current strains, I am completely comfortable. I got vaccinated and am glad I did. If someone else is not vaccinated, their choice. At this point it doesn’t hurt me so what do I care? And if someone’s employer is mandating the vaccine and they don’t want to get it, well welcome to America. Corporations rule.
This is a version of, “it’ll never happen and when it does you’ll deserve it.” On the one hand you say you don’t see the parallel, on the other you say no one is being coerced, and then again, they are but hey it’s America and corporations have all the power. Which is it? And anyway, you haven’t even addressed the basic question: how can liberal women and their supporters demand agency over their bodies for abortions, but not vaccines? That’s a patently obvious dissonance.
Because Covid is contagious and pregnancy is not.
A woman’s pregnancy is something that happens to her and her body. I cannot catch the baby virus. The baby virus isn’t going to spread through the community. She get’s pregnant, it’s on her and therefore it is her choice.
If a woman catches Covid and comes to work, she can spread to her coworkers. She can spread it on the subway. Her desk is next to mine and she sneezes coughs and breathes on me, I am at risk. Her decision to vaccinate or not has community health implications.
These are two completely different situations and there is no connection between them.
To the bigger argument behind this – so far no one is suggesting that the covid 19 vaccine is going to be mandatory for everyone everywhere. And no one will seriously push that. It is dead in the water.
Even though I am vaccinated, at this point I would not support mandatory vaccinations of all citizens. The science still seems to indicate that my vaccine will most likely keep me from death or hospitalization. So at this point, in my mind, it’s strictly personal choice. I was in NY on crowded subways, crowded streets. Not concerned at all if some people are vaccinated or not. I don’t really want to get the delta, but if I do I feel like I will be fine, statistically at least.
But we already have situational quasi mandatory vaccinations. It’s a community health thing. It’s well established. It’s been going on since the polio vaccine. Kids need vaccines to go into school (sort of.) Adults in certain jobs need vaccines to work.
I am sure that at some point it will be added to the list of childhood vaccinations and that is going to be a complete shit show.
Employers are going to mandate it. I assume that this is going to go to the supreme court somehow or someway.
As I said – I’m vaccinated. I’m comfortable with the science. I don’t care if Susie next to me is vaccinated or not. If she gets the delta it’s on her and it PROBABLY won’t kill me. If I get the delta and pass it to her it might kill her. But that’s on her not me.
Outside of the abortion part, we are probably on the same side for this one. Vaccinations are free and available. If, like me, you feel they are safe and are going to protect you and your family, great. Get on. If you do not feel that way, then no problem. Don’t get one. What do I care?
We are probably not on the same side for the employer/school thing. Employees are requiring it. Whatever. I believe in vaccinations. If a person doesn’t, they’ll have to deal with it. This is life in America where corporations are people and people are simply drivers of the economy.
“Covid is contagious”
If the vaccinated are protected against Covid and its variants then they have no basis of complaint. They are secure from these new variants.
If the vaccine does not protect against variants of Covid then the vaccinated should demand new vaccines, not coerce the unvaccinated to get vaccines which apparently do not work against the new mutations.
Fucking forum swallowed another one of my brilliant posts.
Look, your argument is insane. First, I have some bad news about abortions for you: they do affect someone other than the woman.
Second, the idea that every behavior that has the potential to affect others can be proscribed by legal mandate is, quite literally, the path to totalitarianism. Why not also legislate what people can eat, drink, say, etc?
Third, by the end of your thesis-length post, you are contradicting your own position. If you are truly safe as a vaccinated person, and truly don’t care whether others are vaccinated or not as a result, why on earth support mandatory vaccination?
Fucking forum swallowed another one of my brilliant posts. Look, your argument is insane. First, I have some bad news about abortions for you: they do affect someone other than the woman. Second, the idea that every behavior that has the potential to affect others can be proscribed by legal mandate is, quite literally, the path to totalitarianism. Why not also legislate what people can eat, drink, say, etc? Third, by the end of your thesis-length post, you are contradicting your own position. If you are truly safe as a vaccinated person, and truly don’t care whether others are vaccinated or not as a result, why on earth support mandatory vaccination?
I’m not sure why you think I support mandatory vaccinations.
I see a huge difference between the discussing mandatory vaccinations and abortion.
I don’t support mandatory vaccinations at the government level. But that is meaningless because it is a non issue. Biden isn’t saying they are going to force people to vaccinate. No one is saying this.
In terms of employment and school – none of this is new. Some jobs and all school has always required vaccines. Who gives a shit if another one is added to list.
I give a shit. It’s not one vaccine, it’s several, and it hasn’t even been properly evaluated or approved by the FDA. To make it mandatory is insane. And yes, Biden talking about making it mandatory for people with federal jobs: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/07/27/biden-vaccine-mandate-federal-employees/
There has never been, and hopefully will never be again, a vaccine that was so thoroughly tested as the Covid vaccines. Along with the initial tests, they’ve been tested in 200,000,000+ people in the United States alone, along with however many have gotten it in the shithole countries like England. This dwarfs whatever they would do during normal testing, where they give it to 20,000 people and call that a good data set.
200,000,000/20,000 = a ten-thousand times bigger data set of testing.
The stuff they’ve found out is so rare, that it never would have been discovered in regular testing.
The government should just certify it so whines like you have one less excuse to avoid getting a shot, and we can end this stupid pandemic and get on with our lives.
Cheers!
There has never been, and hopefully will never be again, a vaccine that was so thoroughly tested as the Covid vaccines. Along with the initial tests, they’ve been tested in 200,000,000+ people in the United States alone, along with however many have gotten it in the shithole countries like England. This dwarfs whatever they would do during normal testing, where they give it to 20,000 people and call that a good data set. 200,000,000/20,000 = a ten-thousand times bigger data set of testing. The stuff they’ve found out is so rare, that it never would have been discovered in regular testing. The government should just certify it so whines like you have one less excuse to avoid getting a shot, and we can end this stupid pandemic and get on with our lives. Cheers!
That’s not a test, that’s the opposite of testing. That’s just passing something out and hoping it goes well. How this all plays out is anyone’s guess, and there are credible parties that say vaccination can exacerbate the problem: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9844701/SAGE-Covid-variant-kill-one-three-people.html
Well, Hawaii recorded it’s highest daily reported cases today with 622 new cases. Aaaaaand, this doesn’t sound good:
CDC study shows 74% of people infected in Massachusetts Covid outbreak were fully vaccinated
I just spent a good five minutes running the numbers from the article, analyzing the data. And of course that post just fucking disappeared.
Short story – very odd and doesn’t match what is being seen so far in hospitals. Is it an anomaly? Sign of things to come.
One thing – which Smet/Sangoma brilliantly foretold at the beginning of this – is that wide spread testing is a shit show.
Fuck it. If you want to work then you need to get vaccinated. Enough of this bullshit with nurses and people in elderly homes and office buildings walking around breathing on everyone.
And enough of this treating vaccinated people and unvaccinated people as if they were equals.
You need to show proof of vaccination and if you don’t triple masked and seven feet away from everyone.
Why are we catering to the unclean and under educated.
Here in my area, bars and restaurants are fed up and requiring you to show your proof of vaccination if you want to step inside.
Hey, it’s anyone’s decision to get vaxxed. The rocket scientists (like US medical expert Jenny McCarthy) that know that vaccines are bad for you will avoid them, but the dumb folks (like 95% of all medical personnel) will get them. It’s surely not foolproof, but it’s the best we’ve got, and now that a zillion people have received the nano-bots, we can pretty much say they’re as safe as anything else.
Oh yeah – back to the topic…
Fats, I can’t believe you set up such a stupid contrast. It’s pretty easy to argue that being unvaccinated makes you a threat to the general populace, while simply murdering your child only makes you a threat to someone who isn’t old enough to be a constituent anyway…
I shall now press “submit” and watch this post disappear…
-stick
I just spent a good five minutes running the numbers from the article, analyzing the data. And of course that post just fucking disappeared. Short story – very odd and doesn’t match what is being seen so far in hospitals. Is it an anomaly? Sign of things to come. One thing – which Smet/Sangoma brilliantly foretold at the beginning of this – is that wide spread testing is a shit show. Fuck it. If you want to work then you need to get vaccinated. Enough of this bullshit with nurses and people in elderly homes and office buildings walking around breathing on everyone. And enough of this treating vaccinated people and unvaccinated people as if they were equals. You need to show proof of vaccination and if you don’t triple masked and seven feet away from everyone. Why are we catering to the unclean and under educated. Here in my area, bars and restaurants are fed up and requiring you to show your proof of vaccination if you want to step inside.
Check out Hitler over here. If you’re scared, stay home, don’t try to tell other people what to do. You have no right to be free from exposure to germs. You never have had that privilege and never will.
We tell people what to do all the time for much more mundane things. At my place of employment we can’t wear short shorts. In common society we tell people that they cannot walk around naked. We tell people when and where they are and are not allowed to copulate. We regulate use of drugs and alcohol in the workplace.
My friend is a lawyer and her firm has a non negotiable no visible tattoo rule.
My friend is a programmer and was talking to me about all the restrictions they have at work in order to create a no harassment environment.
So this idea that we “shouldn’t” tell people what to do is sophomoric. We tell people what to do all the time.
It’s less “if you are scared of germs stay home” and more “if you are too stupid to get vaccinated” then don’t bring your ass to work.
We tell people what to do all the time for much more mundane things. At my place of employment we can’t wear short shorts. In common society we tell people that they cannot walk around naked. We tell people when and where they are and are not allowed to copulate. We regulate use of drugs and alcohol in the workplace. My friend is a lawyer and her firm has a non negotiable no visible tattoo rule. My friend is a programmer and was talking to me about all the restrictions they have at work in order to create a no harassment environment. So this idea that we “shouldn’t” tell people what to do is sophomoric. We tell people what to do all the time. It’s less “if you are scared of germs stay home” and more “if you are too stupid to get vaccinated” then don’t bring your ass to work.
Do you support mandatory ID for voting?
We tell people what to do all the time for much more mundane things. At my place of employment we can’t wear short shorts. In common society we tell people that they cannot walk around naked. We tell people when and where they are and are not allowed to copulate. We regulate use of drugs and alcohol in the workplace. My friend is a lawyer and her firm has a non negotiable no visible tattoo rule. My friend is a programmer and was talking to me about all the restrictions they have at work in order to create a no harassment environment. So this idea that we “shouldn’t” tell people what to do is sophomoric. We tell people what to do all the time. It’s less “if you are scared of germs stay home” and more “if you are too stupid to get vaccinated” then don’t bring your ass to work.
Do you support mandatory ID for voting?
Two different issues and unrelated. Voting ID does not infringe on anyone’s health and safety.
It’s more akin to – do you believe the state has the right to make drunk driving illegal.
(Yes. Having a valid ID should absolutely be a requirement for voting. Unfortunately s0me of the same crowd that is resisting the vaccines have also resisted the idea that people who are a shade or two darker shouldn’t vote and have historically used things like “mandatory id” to make sure they don’t get to vote.)
If vaccines prevent Covid then the vaccinated have nothing to worry about.
If the vaccinated are worried about mutations then they should demand new vaccines to protect them, not coerce the unvaccinated to get vaccinated with vaccines that do not protect anyone from the new strains.
I was in a meeting with our local health director and she said, paraphrasing either the CDC or the WHO that the Delta variant is the most contagious, most serious virus most of us will ever come into contact with in our lives.
I have no problem if someone doesn’t want to get vaccinated. Don’t get vaccinated. I don’t give a shit.
But why should I have to sit next to you at work? Why should your personal choice infringe on my right to work safely?
Yes. I’m vaccinated. It protects me. But it’s not a 100% guarantee. And I can still bring it home to my kids who are currently not of the age to get vaccinated. So why should I have to carry that small risk at work because Johnny Bozo thinks the vaccine makes him magnetic? Fuck you Johnny Bozo. Go sit somewhere else.
It would be one thing if we could trust the unvaccinated to wear the n95 masks, socially distance themselves, etc. But as we have seen a strong majority of them are shifty, low character types who cannot be trusted to make small sacrifices to help their community.
I don’t give a shit. But why should I have to sit next to you at work? Why should your personal choice infringe on my right to work safely?
Because you do have a choice. You stay home, rather than assume that because you want to leave the house, you get to dictate to other people what they put in their bodies. That’s how freedom works. When you have freedoms, you have responsibility. You want the freedom of moving around in society, and with that comes the responsibility to look out for yourself, but with no guarantees of safety. Freedom implies risk.
Two different issues and unrelated.
No, although I can imagine why a tepid intelligence might not perceive the connection. If you support IDs for stores, restaurants, and theaters, you must support IDs for voting, or be so logically inconsistent that your opinion can be immediately discarded.
Two different issues and unrelated.
No, although I can imagine why a tepid intelligence might not perceive the connection. If you support IDs for stores, restaurants, and theaters, you must support IDs for voting, or be so logically inconsistent that your opinion can be immediately discarded.
As I said, I actually do support mandatory ID for voting.
I don’t give a shit. But why should I have to sit next to you at work? Why should your personal choice infringe on my right to work safely?
Because you do have a choice. You stay home, rather than assume that because you want to leave the house, you get to dictate to other people what they put in their bodies. That’s how freedom works. When you have freedoms, you have responsibility. You want the freedom of moving around in society, and with that comes the responsibility to look out for yourself, but with no guarantees of safety. Freedom implies risk.
Bullshit. The unvaxxed have a choice. They can choose to use their freedom to remain unvaccinated and their asses can stay home.
What you decide to put into your body dictates the formats in which you get to interact with your community. You can decide not to take a safe, effective, FREE, vaccine that will protect you and the people around you from the most contagious and serious virus we have seen in our lifetimes.
That is completely your right.
But then, by exercising that right, you forfeit the right to freely interact with your community like it is nothing.
That is how freedom AND community works.
Hey assholes. I know there is a safe, effective vaccine that will protect you and me and your children who are not able to get vaccinated yet. But I’m not going to take it because…umm…Tucker Carlson. AND I expect you to let me sit next to you. Eat with you. Expose you to this shit. And I’m not wearing a mask. Because. Umm. Newsmax.
Fuck that shit.
Freedom isn’t a free pass to do whatever the fuck you want. It never has been.
@Fat Cat
I’ve been arguing on the more extreme side. But I would genuinely like to know your opinons on of the more “nuanced” sides of this.
I absolutely do not think the government has, or should have, the right to force citizens to take a vaccine. But I am talking about that on the “Biden’s troops are coming to your door to give you a shot” level.
I support the rights of employers to have their workers be vaccinated in order to be employed. I understand that you do not support this.
What do you think of jobs where there is a more compelling reason? Hospital/health care. Schools (kids under 12 cannot be vaccinated.) Do you feel these jobs/employers have a right to require employees to be vaccinated?
What do you think about the rights of restaurants, concerts, etc. to require attendees to be vaccinated. Not on a government mandate level, but as an individual business entity. Do you think restaurants should be allowed to do this? Let the free market decide if this works?
Do we need to vaccinate people who come to elementary and secondary schools?
According to this article in Nature a study of British Covid 19 deaths in youth under 18 showed a death from Covid in every half million deaths. Half the youth who died had pre-existing conditions.
This is probably why the US CDC didn’t bother to test the vaccine on the young. The Cost Benefit ratio didn’t support it.
“Of 3,105 deaths from all causes among the 12 million or so people under 18 in England between March 2020 and February 2021, 25 were attributable to COVID-19 — a rate of about 2 for every million people in this age range. None had asthma or type-1 diabetes, the authors note, and about half had conditions that put them at a higher risk than healthy children of dying from any cause.”
wwwDOTnatureDOTcom/articles/d41586-021-01897-w
Bullshit. The unvaxxed have a choice. They can choose to use their freedom to remain unvaccinated and their asses can stay home.
Amen
That’s not a choice, that’s a Soviet election. You are the one who is afraid so the burden is on you.
Do we need to vaccinate people who come to elementary and secondary schools? According to this article in Nature a study of British Covid 19 deaths in youth under 18 showed a death from Covid in every half million deaths.
Yes, vaccinate them. Absolutely.
First, the Delta variant is a different beast. PICUs are filling up in the worst states.
Second, for every death there’s a bunch of hospitalizations and time in the ICU. You don’t spend two weeks on a ventilator in an ICU and not come out a changed person, so it is not just about the deaths.
Third, the unvaccinated are conducting uncontrolled gain of function research, letting the virus look for an even more evil variant. The Delta is orders of magnitude more contagious than the original WuFlu. It went from nothing to now over 90% of all cases in the US, which is crazy. Still plenty of room to get more deadly.
Fourth, the vaccines are incredibly safe and effective. Every hospitalization and death is now preventable. It is stupid not to prevent them.
Do we need to vaccinate people who come to elementary and secondary schools? According to this article in Nature a study of British Covid 19 deaths in youth under 18 showed a death from Covid in every half million deaths.
Yes, vaccinate them. Absolutely. First, the Delta variant is a different beast. PICUs are filling up in the worst states. Second, for every death there’s a bunch of hospitalizations and time in the ICU. You don’t spend two weeks on a ventilator in an ICU and not come out a changed person, so it is not just about the deaths. Third, the unvaccinated are conducting uncontrolled gain of function research, letting the virus look for an even more evil variant. The Delta is orders of magnitude more contagious than the original WuFlu. It went from nothing to now over 90% of all cases in the US, which is crazy. Still plenty of room to get more deadly. Fourth, the vaccines are incredibly safe and effective. Every hospitalization and death is now preventable. It is stupid not to prevent them.
This, stated plainly, is why leftists belong in a mass grave. They don’t champion freedom, they champion control. It’s given a thin veneer of care, but the social policies they love require ever-increasingly invasive monitoring and control to impose. Now, you must dress the way they say (masks), consume what they say (vaccines), and say what they want (misinformation) or you are the next target.
I am OD-ing on schadenfreude
A conservative radio host in Florida who vehemently criticized the coronavirus vaccine has died of complications following covid-19, his fiancee and life-partner Kittie Farley confirmed Monday.
On Aug. 4, Farrel Austin Levitt, publicly known as Dick Farrel, died of “severe damage” caused by covid-19, Farley told The Washington Post. He was 65.
Farrel, a vocal supporter of former president Donald Trump, had said on his Facebook page the inoculations had been “promoted by people who lied [to you] all along about masks, where the virus came from and the death toll.”
59.6 percent of Florida’s population is considered fully vaccinated by the CDC.
As of Aug 10 2021
Source – covidDOTcdcDOTgov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-people-fully-percent-pop18
The least vaccinated is Alabama at 43.8
ibid
Florida leads many of the old Dixie states in getting the jab.
Damn, it takes real work to have more hospitalizations now than in the dark days of December, considering we have a vaccine that would have driven the rate to zero. Good job anti-vaxxers!
Yes, your Biden is doing a much worse job than Trump. Sad!
Legitimate concern for a highly infectious virus that has killed hundreds of thousands and hospitalized what…millions? outweighs the irrational fear of a safe and effective vaccine.
Personal rights? Boo fucking hoo. I give exactly zero fucks that these trump neo evangelical fools that won’t bake a cake for a gay wedding feel personally violated that they have to be vaccinated to work with other people. They can cry on the unemployment line and pray that the Dems extend unemployment benefits.
“I give exactly zero fucks that these trump neo evangelical fools that won’t bake a cake for a gay wedding feel personally violated that they have to be vaccinated to work with other people.”
As of Aug 2 2021 Only 38 percent of the African American population has been vaccinated. They are vaccinating at an 11 percent lower rate than “whites”. They can’t all be Trumpian Evangelicals.
Maybe some folks remember the Tuskegee Men’s Syphilis study? Half of all pregnancies involving African American women in NYC end in abortion. The rate is 33 percent nationwide.
other/state-indicator/percent-of-total-population-that-has-received-a-covid-19-vaccine-by-race-ethnicity
The treatments have gotten a lot better, so instead of dying they just end up as feeble replicas of their formerly healthy selves.
I know a guy whose friend, mid-30s and healthy, has been on an ECMO for two weeks. Fuucccckkk.
” Pretty obvious the vaccine works magnificently.”
A counter example of two – they both took the jab, they’re both in the hospital with Covid.
“Civil rights leader and Chicago resident Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. along with his wife, Jacqueline, have been hospitalized after contracting COVID-19, according to the prominent political activist’s organization, the Rainbow PUSH Coalition.
Jackson has remained active, most recently advocating for COVID-19 vaccines for Black people, who lag behind white people in the United States’ vaccination drive.
Jackson got his first dose of the vaccine in January during a publicized event at a South Side hospital. He urged others to vaccinate as soon as possible.”
nbcchicagoDOTcom/news/coronavirus/rev-jesse-jackson-and-wife-hospitalized-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19/2595593/
Legitimate concern for a highly infectious virus that has killed hundreds of thousands and hospitalized what…millions? outweighs the irrational fear of a safe and effective vaccine. Personal rights? Boo fucking hoo. I give exactly zero fucks that these trump neo evangelical fools that won’t bake a cake for a gay wedding feel personally violated that they have to be vaccinated to work with other people. They can cry on the unemployment line and pray that the Dems extend unemployment benefits.
Why do you hate ‘groids so much? You want to deny them the right to vote via mandatory IDs and now, on top of that, you want to force them to take the White Man’s vooodoo? I didn’t understand you to be such a hateful and divisive person. You sound like you’re baking cakes for the Klan.
Legitimate concern for a highly infectious virus that has killed hundreds of thousands and hospitalized what…millions? outweighs the irrational fear of a safe and effective vaccine. Personal rights? Boo fucking hoo. I give exactly zero fucks that these trump neo evangelical fools that won’t bake a cake for a gay wedding feel personally violated that they have to be vaccinated to work with other people. They can cry on the unemployment line and pray that the Dems extend unemployment benefits.
Why do you hate ‘groids so much? You want to deny them the right to vote via mandatory IDs and now, on top of that, you want to force them to take the White Man’s vooodoo? I didn’t understand you to be such a hateful and divisive person. You sound like you’re baking cakes for the Klan.
Lol. I’m playing checkers. You’re playing chess.
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