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Forums › Free Speech › Another dead bodybuilder
I guess because I got interested in anabolics, just out of curiousity, I’m getting news headlines through the Google app about bodybuilding. I saw that 2018 Mr. Olympia Shawn Rhoden is dead at 46. For the record, I’ve got no interest in supraphysiologic dosages of test, let alone any of the other compounds out there.
I think John Meadows was 46 or 47, too. Other than the guys at the top of the sport, where endorsements and prize money can be big, I don’t get why anyone would do this to themselves. If you don’t have the structure, can’t respond to low dosages and have to crank out of your mind, and don’t have the commitment to watching bloodwork, blood pressure, addressing sleep apnea, or doing any of the other pharmacological interventions like statins, blood pressure meds etc, that are demonized but can keep people alive, you’re playing with fire. That doesn’t even go into the inflammation from training and diet. Sleep apnea is a huge one from what I can tell. Most of you mouth breathing fat asses probably need a CPAP machine if you don’t already have one.
Early deaths off the top of my head: Dallas McCarver (~26), Andreas Munzer (32 or 33, I think), Rhoden (46), Meadows (46 or 47?).
I’m always interested in whatever people completely devote themselves to. I think it’s interesting to hear their reasons, what immersed them into the path etc. With modern bodybuilding, at least without legitimate drug testing, I don’t really get it.
I get the Eric Helms types. They’re in love with the process of what makes muscle grow and how to maximize FFM, it satisfies their need for competition, and they’re likely not shaving decades off of their lives.
I don’t get the other guys. We see liver damage, cardiac remodeling, a number of compounds are pretty psychoactive (Tren)… I mean, Trenbolone is the breakup steroid for a reason.
I had to look up Eric Helms.
That guy looks like he follows a good diet, does cardio, and lifts weights.
But he’s not in the same realm as the ‘roided out Godzillas. It’s like…I dunno…tee-ball vs. the majors. You don’t need to do steroids to win at tee-ball. But you might in the majors. And it’s a bit hard to compare the two.
EDIT: There doesn’t seem to be a lot of online fitness experts that look fit, without questionably being juicy AF. After looking up Eric, I glanced at a few other websites. Some of the people don’t really look like they lift. Or they look HYOOGE.
The Shelby Starnes rabbit hole is crazy.
Look into it.
Oh yeah, I’d forgotten about that. I saw a YT video where some client of his was talking about what he puts his female competitors on and it was nuts.
I had to look up Eric Helms.
That guy looks like he follows a good diet, does cardio, and lifts weights.
But he’s not in the same realm as the ‘roided out Godzillas. It’s like…I dunno…tee-ball vs. the majors. You don’t need to do steroids to win at tee-ball. But you might in the majors. And it’s a bit hard to compare the two.
Yup. Helms seems like a good dude. He was working as a trainer and put himself through grad school in his late 20s to eventually get a PhD. Lifelong natty, and he’s been open about the struggles of adding legitimate tissue once you hit a certain point.
I remember he talked about a FB post from like 12 years ago, after a year or two of competing, where he said he was setting his goals at something you would have to have Herschel Walker genetics to attain and he didn’t come close to getting there over a decade later.
Natural bodybuilders will often talk about how much they have to work over the course of a year to gain 1-2lbs of muscle, and then the untested competitors will come in like 5-10lbs heavier from 250 to 260 or whatever.
I was a skinny motherfucker in high school, but I put on 85lbs (then lost 20) by counting calories, lifting heavy, and minimizing extra activity. I don’t know what my peak would have been, but at the biggest I’d get a rash on my legs when jogging and got over it.
Is it really that hard to gain muscle? It was a boring lifestyle, very annoying to eat that much, and you have to push yourself, but I question if these guys who can’t get bigger aren’t stuck in overthinking things.
To be clear, now I look healthy…at one time was big….and for a long time was a beanpole.
YET ANOTHER EDIT: Definitely there are some big natural bodybuilders at their peak who will struggle….I’ve just been looking at the ones that look pretty normal so my perspective is probably skewed.
It’s pretty hard to put on actual contractile tissue. I don’t remember the ratios, but I remember seeing something that showed that for “every pound of muscle”, some large percentage was water and glycogen, and the actual tissue accrual was miniscule.
When we’re all 15% BF or less (hopefully, but most of these slobs around here are mouth breathing for a reason), it’s a lot different than someone who’s peeled and depleted to stand on stage.
By the time they’re dieted down to 4% or 5% BF, there’s not much left of what filled them out. Even with carb ups to look fuller, there’s not much there to overshadow the muscle.
First, I’m revealing my own insecurities (I’m definitely on the stringy side).
Second, I know a fellow trainer that has rationalized himself into an unimpressive physique. He fervently believes that workouts longer than an hour are detrimental to his hormonal profile, but also believes that you have to have perfect rest periods (often resting 3-5 minutes), so ends up doing 12-14 work sets. On top of that…he also thinks he has short tendon insertions (or long — whichever the excuse is), and that’s why he can’t grow arms, but I’ve looked at his programming and he’ll do 3 sets of arms for three weeks, then skip it for a few cycles.
Third, I think we all have a pretty fucking huge potential (injuries notwithstanding). If someone is doing 8+ sets to failure on a stubborn body part, multiple days a week, employing some variety in rep range/exercise selection, and eating a caloric surplus…well, then I might believe they have a genetic limit. But otherwise it just sounds like excuses and rationalizations.
Your trainer buddy and competitive bodybuilders aren’t in the same ball park.
One doesn’t work hard enough, probably doesn’t eat enough, and I’d bet his sleep sucks and he has some other lifestyle gaps.
For the guys that live and breathe the sport, who have coaches, meal prep like crazy, supplement intelligently… they’re very likely near their natural genetic potential.
Most of us aren’t anywhere near our genetic limit for muscular bodyweight, but as time goes on, gains slow more and more. A guy in his late 20s that started lifting at 15 or whatever is probably at the point where he’s able to gain 2 or 3 pounds per year if he’s a technician with everything.
Lyle McDonald published this and most of the calculators seem to be in agreement.
YEAR 1 — 20 – 25 lbs of muscles (2 pounds per month)
YEAR 2 — 10 – 12 of pounds (1 pound per month)
YEAR 3 — 5 – 6 of pounds (0.5 pound per month)
YEAR 4 — 2 – 3 of pounds (and then it tapers off)
That trainer buddy is anal retentive about his sleep and macros. It’s like that Dorian Yates quote, “Diet is 100% of success. Training is 100% of success. Sleep is 100% of success.” You gotta bust your ass, crush your diet, and commit to recovery.
And I’m not remotely disagreeing on the legit Gorillas out there having difficulty going even bigger. But when I see some skinny fitness expert and they say “it’s my genes, and my tendon insertions.” I think, “Bitch, you don’t train hard enough or eat enough.”
BTW, isn’t Lyle Macdonald scrawny?
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Lyle’s little, but he knows his stuff.</p>
But remember we’re talking about bodybuilders here. It started with a recent Olympia winner dying.
People have a ton of reasons for not reaching genetic potential, but those people don’t usually compete in physique sports.
You’re right, it is two different things.
Yes, you can be a juicy Gorilla with a body image issue and die from roids…though I think that’s is it’s own disorder. I mean fuck, some people are crack heads. Or meth addicts. I don’t think common sense indicates steroid use — or crack, or meth — being healthy.
You can also justify science/some fitness author/etc. for the reason you lift like a twelve-year old and eat like a starving ballerina.
I’m leery of research serving to demotivate people. If you want to be bigger and stronger, it’s probably likely you can be. But you’ll have to lift more weight, for more reps, and more sets. And eat a lot. And unless you look like a beast, you’re probably slacking in one, or more, categories vs. some genetic ceiling.
…..I had to go back and see how the hell I got on this diversion. A) Roidy Gorillas B) Skinny bodybuilding/hypertrophy experts C) where’s the in-between?
No clue where the inbetween is, dude. It wouldn’t be IronGarm if things didn’t go off the rails.
Layne Norton makes the same point about genetic potential. Why would you want to know if you were working with a lower ceiling instead of always trying to push for that little bit of improvement?
I just think it’s an interesting conversation but I wouldn’t want to hit my genetic potential. At my short height, my max potential may be something like 193 or something and I’m already a sturdy looking guy. I wouldn’t be able to move because there isn’t enough frame to spread that mass across.
At my beefiest, and I’m a lanky dude, I had the following things:
A) A girl asked, “What’s wrong with your neck? Why is it so big?” I was doing neck harness extensions with a 45lb plate.
B) A couple girls said, “Your tits are bigger than mine.”
C) The rash on the inner thighs when jogging.
Everybody has an ideal healthy size, after that it’s all trade-offs.
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