IrongarmX

I’m also reading this book, thanks to Mickey.  It occurred to me that the author’s “Misogis” are out of the realm of possibility for most people.  (How many can take a month off to go trek Alaska, or hire safety divers for your rock-moving mission?)  But, I think there’s a lot of good info in the book, and I definitely agree with the premise – we humans have not sufficiently evolved to thrive in the pampered, 72*, constant stimulus environ.

I’m reminded of some of the things I did in the USMC, as well as in other activities.  Just reading the book my response has been to push it – not when working out, but in all things.  Too hot to work? – do some more!  However, my activities don’t meet the book’s definition: “something you have ~50% chance of completing successfully” – and maybe that’s extreme.  It could be that just pushing yourself (something that anyone who lifts should be familiar with) is enough.

I’m a bit more “wild” than the author, who needed “rewilding”, but I still think there’s value in the book.

TLDR; ya all are pussies and if you’re not pushing yourself well outside of your comfort zone on a regular basis, there’s probably a deep-seated empty spot in your being…

-Stick

I browsed through the sample. The beginning of chapter 1 – Rule 1: Make it Really Hard – killed it for me.

Sangoma, it took me a chapter or so to warm up to the book but it far exceeded my expectations and is a book I will go back and revisit often for years to come.

Bought it. Haven’t had a chance to dig in yet. Probably enjoy some parts, maybe not so much for others.

I’m sure at the end of my life the “life I should live” vs. “the life I want to live” regrets will be an issue. Maybe. HOWEVER, I’d probably be on career and wife number four by now if I had just done what I wanted.

The “life you wanted to live” is imaginary.  It wouldn’t have happened the way you imagine in any case.  That part is entirely bullshit and it’s the thing that gets pudgy, unfit, middle-aged city boys to decide they’re going to be Grizzly Adams about 48 hours before they’re being medivac’d off a “moderate difficulty” hiking trail (their Misogi, I guess…).   I think many people just regret that there was difficulty and compromise in their life, and it’s just gonna be that way.  You can’t have a perfect life, and you don’t really want one.  The life of the middle-class American is already too perfect.  I thought of this last night listening to my neighbor gal prattle on with her endless stream of complaints – I tell ya, it’s a hard life having a brand-new house, six figure income, too many toys to use in any given weekend, awesome neighbors (me!), and a dental cavity.  Oh the horror!

I think people with regrets are those that fucked up the simple stuff – debt, savings, retirement.  Oddly enough they seem to regret that they didn’t squander enough.  Those who spent frugally, saved, and avoided debt (yes, it does seem largely financial) don’t have the same regrets.   Perhaps that small economic forfeiture is part of the hardness that’s gone out of us?

-Stick

Taking care of your financial health is huge, and overlooked, imo.  The greatest negative stresses in my life have been financial burdens hanging over my head.  Not only is debt unsustainable, it cripples your health – unless you’re a millenial that honestly doesn’t give a shit about the people you made promises to, because your promise is worth *zero*.  Eliminating, getting on top, and staying on top of debt have substantially increased the quality of my life.  I still use a credit card (mostly for Amazon orders), but I keep it where I can pay it off each month.  Anything less is distressing.  It definitely takes a small amount of discipline, but it’s enormously less stressful.

Bram – might I recommend “The Random Walk Guide to Investing” by Malkiel.  Nothing astonishing, no get-rich-quick, just solid financial advice that’s withstood the test of time.  I can’t promise you anything, but I own my home, my cars, and my toys.  My credit card is a monthly bill – to be paid off monthly.  I can’t tell you how many co-workers (i.e. people with the same income I had) wouldn’t do that.  I can spend twice as much as my neighbor, and have money in the bank, because I didn’t borrow – it’s really incredible once you’re on the positive side of it…

-Stick

My finances and debt is one thing I need to get under control. I have a lot of CC debt from being laid off years ago and basically living off of CCs for a couple of years, but also from my stupid spending habits.

The debt Misogi is no good!  Get yourself out of that pit and your physical well-being will improve!  If you’re in a hole, and need to dig out, I recommend Dave Ramsey’s “Total Money Makeover” – at least until you’re out of debt.  I think his investment advice is too basic / simplistic, but if you’re paying off CC debt, you don’t really need investment advice other than “don’t invest in something with 2-15% return when you’re paying 18%+ on a card…

Getting back on track: consider it a financial Misogi – go without the useless garbage that makes up most peoples CC debt, endure boredom, and desire, and see how miserably miserly you can make yourself.  You needn’t go to extremes – I knew a guy that wouldn’t spend a penny he didn’t need to, and he probably could have retired at 30 (especially with his parsimonious lifestyle), but he missed out on a lot (like going out for beers once in a while was too frivolous for him).  Going out for beers, when you can’t afford it, is frivolous.  Going out for beers, once in a while, when you’ve got money in the bank, is as healthy as beer can be…  In short, until your debt is cleared, spend money (not credit!) only on essentials – roll everything else into discharging your debts.  If you have multiple debts, splurge (with what you can afford – no credit!) each time you pay off something.  (And FFS cancel that useless shit (hypocrite alert!))  My wife and I look back on the ‘lean’ years fondly – me driving a shit car that reeked of 10,000 cigarettes previously smoked in it, doing free shit for entertainment, and making (gasp!) my own meals – all totally worth it.

I’ve become something of a spendthrift in the last ten years – with savings in the bank, no payments sapping my check, I’ve been able to do and buy just about whatever I want and still increase my savings.  That’s the reward.  Our neighbors are about our age, have about our income, and have to reach deep into their asses to find $400 for the odd unanticipated expense.  They have a lot, but it’s all rented from the bank.  If either of them loses their job, they’ll be on their third bankruptcy…

Don’t be them…

-Stick

It’s a sad state of affairs when books need to be written advising people to seek out moments of discomfort.  That said, it’s probably necessary.  However, you don’t need to push a rock up a mountain like Sisyphus.  Try quitting smoking, or drinking, or using drugs.  Try fasting.  Try sleeping on the floor.  You don’t need to undertake the labors of Hercules or do some bullshit extreme sport to begin to inure yourself to discomfort, there are opportunities everywhere.  More challenging is to look for challenges that actually produce a positive or constructive result.

In reflection, I decided that my comments above were uninformed.  So I bought the Kindle version of the book last night and read the first 25 pages or so before bed.  So far, lotta red flags (e.g., admitted fraud, alcohol addict, hyperbolic magazine copy style) but I admit to being intrigued enough to continue.  I’ll share my thoughts as I go.

I’ve found value in the book.  I think the best parts are the ‘asides’ concerning various studies (working out in a hot climate, time in nature, why weight loss fails, etc).  I haven’t looked yet, but I hope there are clear citations somewhere so I can learn more about these factoids later on.  The Alaska trek just provides a backdrop – it’s not something most of us could reasonably do (just due to logistics like taking a month off work, the expense of hiring multiple planes, etc).

Stick

stickfigure wrote:

I’ve found value in the book. I think the best parts are the ‘asides’ concerning various studies (working out in a hot climate, time in nature, why weight loss fails, etc). I haven’t looked yet, but I hope there are clear citations somewhere so I can learn more about these factoids later on. The Alaska trek just provides a backdrop – it’s not something most of us could reasonably do (just due to logistics like taking a month off work, the expense of hiring multiple planes, etc). Stick

I agree with this and your points are what I enjoyed most as well.

Started reading this. The first few chapters not so great, but it looks to be getting better as I go.

Boris wrote:

Started reading this. The first few chapters not so great, but it looks to be getting better as I go.

Yeah, I have bogged down on this after the first couple of chapters.  I guess I’m too comfortable.  Gonna have to muscle my way back into reading this.

Misogi is a term from Shinto religion that means purification.  It’s kind of weird to me that of all terms he chose that one because it’s not a very precise word for what the author is talking about.

I’ve tried to post to this thread repeatedly. Hopefully this will go through. Maybe it’s the inclusion of active links, I don’t know.

It’s not a bad term https://jisho.org/search/禊  but I don’t think it will have broader appeal than to wannabe hard MFers (like me). I’m guessing most athletes can relate to the idea of giving penance, redemption, etc on the field or in the squat racks.

I think it’s kind of a writer’s device – giving something a foreign name (the more foreign, the better) makes it sound a bit more … magical, or profound.  How much less emotion would that section of the book have had if you replaced “Misogi” with “challenging task”?

-Stick

Edit: punctuation

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  stickfigure .