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Forums › Trooper’s Training Forum – In memory of Col. James “Jim” R Tirey, USA › Fasted State Cardio
Wherein we consider any information or experiences regarding fasted cardio. For the sake of this thread, we will consider this to be doing low-intensity, steady state cardio in the morning after not eating for 8-12 hours.
Do any of you have experience with this? Do any of you have information that either supports or contradicts this practice? I’ve been noticing a lot of bodybuilders from Steve Michalik, Ronnie Coleman, and the Rock all used this practice to get lean while maintaining muscle mass, which is leading me to give it a try.
I have done it at two different times.
I think it’s very reasonable to see how you feel. Doing cardio whenever is probably just as good. And the diet better be dialed in too.
I have done it at two different times.
The first, I was trying to gain muscle, and hated how hungry I was when running. Felt it took away from the run. Didn’t keep it up.
The second, I was trying to maintain muscle and body-fat and felt fine. Kept it up.
I think it’s very reasonable to see how you feel. Doing cardio whenever is probably just as good. And the diet better be dialed in too.
So you don’t think there’s much gain from doing it in a fasted state? So far I’ve been doing it only for three or four days, hardly enough to draw any conclusions. It does seem like, at least, you make sure you get it done by doing it first, but I was hoping to accelerate fat loss.
I do hear you about diet, but my diet was already pretty good and is getting better all the time. Biggest thing recently was stopping fucking around with alcohol, but I’m also getting better about portion control.
I told myself when I switched my focus from martial arts to lifting/training that I was finally going to put all the things I’ve learned over the years together into action. Not just lifting but cardio, nutrition, recovery, psychology, etc. I can feel that starting to happen. I’m gonna get jacked and nothing is going to stop me.
For most it’s a matter of convenience. You get up. You do cardio. Then you eat. For some, performance degrades and they are looking for gains in fitness or performance for sport, and they need something to eat.
I guess same question for you: you don’t think that the cardio done in a fasted state makes any difference? Everything else you said makes sense to me, right away is always the best time to get something done.
The idea is that glycogen stores will be depleted at this time and therefore fat will be used directly for fuel. Broscience or legit? :/
That’s awesome you’re going all in, and I think that’s what any of us have to do.
If you feel fine from doing the cardio fasted keep it up! Maybe it’s a little better, but the more important thing is you’re doing it in the first place.
And you’re tracking your macros (saw that you were in your log), plus lifting well and consistently. Now it’s just a matter of commitment and slight tweaking of diet/cardio/weights when necessary.
I will most days ride my bike about 45 mins- hour fasted in the am — nothing hard. I like it because it blunts my appetite for awhile and I can push my breakfast back a a little bit. I have started to limit carbs in my last meal of the day. I’ll report back if I notice anything.
I’ll be curious what your experience is. As for limiting carbs in the later part of the day, I’ve heard lots of people encourage that practice. I have a weird thing where I can limit carbs all day, but if I don’t carb up somewhat in the evening, I’ll just lay awake unable to fall asleep. For me I just turn the normal practice on its head and limit carbs early so I can eat them before bedtime. Not ideal, but adequate.
That’s awesome you’re going all in, and I think that’s what any of us have to do. If you feel fine from doing the cardio fasted keep it up! Maybe it’s a little better, but the more important thing is you’re doing it in the first place. And you’re tracking your macros (saw that you were in your log), plus lifting well and consistently. Now it’s just a matter of commitment and slight tweaking of diet/cardio/weights when necessary.
I figure I can’t go far wrong since instead of riding my bike 60 to 90 minutes a week, I will be riding it 140 to 210 minutes a week. So regardless of any fasted state magic, I’ve upped the dosage significantly. Plus it’s way cooler to ride at 5:00 a.m. than 5:00 p.m. in the tropics.
I’ve usually do fasted cardio in the morning.
From when I was in high school and running before breakfast for wrestling was ‘the’ thing to do to lose weight, to most days of the week nowadays, when I walk for an hour on an empty stomach then I might do a quick morning minimum session of either resistance work or intervals.
I haven’t seen it matter for fat loss. I do feel less likely to do it after I eat though, so for compliance it works for me
I haven’t seen it matter for fat loss. I do feel less likely to do it after I eat though, so for compliance it works for me
That’s disappointing, but I suppose compliance is a big deal too.
BTW, unrelated but have you ever read Atomic Fitness by Steve Michalik? It’s completely fucking nuts, but I bet you would get a kick out of it.
This opinion often falls on deaf ears, but it’s been vital personally:
Be wary of over-doing cardio.
15 years ago I was chasing a squat of 315. I hit 275, then a month later I couldn’t do 225 for a single, even though my diet and training was consistent. Looking over my journal, I had added a moderate jog/run the following day after squats. I began pushing the run to two days after squatting and quickly got my strength back.
It’s individual but there can be a systemic fatigue to adding excessive movement (more than optimal for your body).
Ideally for me it’s every other day.
Take Bram’s case:
“I had added a moderate jog/run the following day after squats. I began pushing the run to two days after squatting and quickly got my strength back.”
Is this surprising? It shouldn’t be. Bram is not a big guy. Most of us have limited resources for recovery.
There is a reason that professional rugby players aren’t blowing the world away with their squatting, and that’s because running is far more important to them. That being said, I think the average All-Black prop can squat between 550-600 lbs in season, if I remember what my buddy Ed told me about the Franks brothers correctly. I am pretty sure they both hit 700 or so in a PL meet off season, or in a Crossfit Total contest.
In any case, cycling cardio is different because it’s not load bearing. When we are talking about the depletion of muscle glycogen, non-load bearing cardio activities have the potential to hoover up almost all muscle glycogen, whereas loaded activities, i.e. running, rucking, you get progressively slower and slower until you have to stop.
Take Bram’s case: “I had added a moderate jog/run the following day after squats. I began pushing the run to two days after squatting and quickly got my strength back.” Is this surprising? It shouldn’t be. Bram is not a big guy. Most of us have limited resources for recovery. There is a reason that professional rugby players aren’t blowing the world away with their squatting, and that’s because running is far more important to them…In any case, cycling cardio is different because it’s not load bearing. When we are talking about the depletion of muscle glycogen, non-load bearing cardio activities have the potential to hoover up almost all muscle glycogen, whereas loaded activities, i.e. running, rucking, you get progressively slower and slower until you have to stop.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Clarification, please? Are you saying that cycling is less likely to fuck with lifting than running might?
I think more important and interesting is post-cardio fasting, rather than fasted cardio. Jogging after waking up and not getting breakfast isn’t really different from a jog in the afternoon, at least for me. However, a long(ish) slow run triggers several responses which can be used for various purposes. The most striking effect for me is the lack of appetite for at least a few hours.
Datbetrue forum had a big thread on carbless post-workout in the context of fat loss. Not exactly fasting, but similar in a way.
I think more important and interesting is post-cardio fasting, rather than fasted cardio. Jogging after waking up and not getting breakfast isn’t really different from a jog in the afternoon, at least for me. However, a long(ish) slow run triggers several responses which can be used for various purposes. The most striking effect for me is the lack of appetite for at least a few hours. Datbetrue forum had a big thread on carbless post-workout in the context of fat loss. Not exactly fasting, but similar in a way.
Interesting stuff. So, their point was not so much doing cardio before eating, but not eating after cardio for some set period of time? And people felt that this was an effective means of accelerating fat loss? Also, what was the “long(ish)” run you refer to? How long?
About an hour, give or take. Actually last Saturday I went for a run with my wife, whi is a good runner. About 7 km, an hour, finished around 9 am. I didn’t feel like eating until 4 pm.
Datbetrue folks were about no carbs after any kind of workout if the goal was fat loss. Not fasting, but not eating carbs.
I think Layne Norton maybe quoted research that fasted state cardio triggered the body to release more fatty acids for fuel, but that net caloric expenditure was the same or less.
In the context of a full day of eating and moving, the calories in vs out would be the primary determining factor in fat loss, with adequate resistance training and protein intake helping to spare muscle and other lean body mass.
I think Layne Norton maybe quoted research that fasted state cardio triggered the body to release more fatty acids for fuel, but that net caloric expenditure was the same or less. In the context of a full day of eating and moving, the calories in vs out would be the primary determining factor in fat loss, with adequate resistance training and protein intake helping to spare muscle and other lean body mass.
Ya. I’ve been looking at all sorts of angles, but CICO is still the king, as far as I can tell. Anyway, down 12 lbs for the month of July.
Steve Michalik
The anecdotes I’ve read about him and his gym are amazing.
The most hilarious is how one of the trainers got collected by a truck after getting so high and coked up that he thought he could stop traffic “with the power of his physique”.
Thanks for mentioning the book! I didn’t think it was out there.
As for the topic, Shaf suggested once doing it with some green tea caps/caffeine in the system as well.
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