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Forums › The United Provinces of Kettlebellistan › Steve Maxwell drops kettlebells
Steve has been all over the place with regard to training advice over the years. I wouldn’t read to much into it. It’s wise to train with longevity in mind. OTOH, it’s supremely unwise to tiptoe through life, acting old before its time. Steve hasn’t taken his own advice, and I suggest you don’t either.
Steve has always been a follower.
Nautilus, Atkins Dieting, Kettlebells, etc….he might be in second or third, but he’s never been a pioneer. That being said he seems super bad with building his own brand, as “durable, BJJ coach and player” is as good a place to hang his hat as any.
The problem is always in the user, not the tool.
Dan John had congenital hip problems.
https://www.strongfirst.com/community/threads/maxwell-do-not-use-kbs-anymore.20001/
Dan John does have 2 hip replacement.
Part of this seems to be he is just not great at marketing or branding, although I wouldn’t have said this a few years ago. Mahler and Cotter have made out very well indeed, as members of the first class sRKC diaspora.
Has Steve made out very well? He looks sickly and traveling all the way to China or India to teach, of all things, kettlebells doesn’t strike me as the best life. But I have no idea his level of investment or reward, so I make no judgements. He’s a good guy, I certainly hope he’s making out well.
I’m assuming he’s not doing all that well financially…getting by maybe. Not great for a 68 year old who should be sitting pretty.
My bad, I forgot we are discussing two Steves. My remarks were actually about Steve Cotter, not Steve Maxwell. I stopped caring about Steve Maxwell a long time ago, he gets what he deserves. Cotter, on the other hand, has always been a good guy.
Steve Freides has a special way of dealing with the undesirables. First, you get “moderated”. If you continue to misbehave your connection to the forum is somehow slowed down to the point of “it’s not fucking worth it”. Forbidden topics are anything that puts the sanctity of StrongFirst into doubt. This and any questions about Pavel’s past.
It’s kinda bizarre reasoning on his part. Sure, w. ballistics and a lot of really high rep work, there could be a problem w. repetitive strain injuries and those could become chronic if you’re not careful, but yeah, I’m not seeing where he’s calling out all these people about their injuries. Weird.
It’s kinda bizarre reasoning on his part. Sure, w. ballistics and a lot of really high rep work, there could be a problem w. repetitive strain injuries and those could become chronic if you’re not careful, but yeah, I’m not seeing where he’s calling out all these people about their injuries. Weird.
Agreed. Kettlebells are no more or less injurious than any other form of training.
I’ve never met Steve M nor interacted with him. I came around after the three (Steve M, Steve C, Mike M) had left Dragon Door.
I do remember the epic “Pavel is Fraud” thread Steve C launched.
I also remember the exchange between Garm and Steve C where Garm had called out Steve C’s martial credential claims and Steve C threatened Garm to a death match or something.
But, to the point of the thread – the evidence, anecdotal at least – doesn’t seem to lead to the conclusion that KB training is bad for longevity. Back when you could find these things there were plenty of videos of old eastern bloc dudes working with the KBs.
My sense is that any physical endeavor taken to extremes (olympic/world class levels) can be be hard on the body. But outside of those levels, the worst thing you can do to the body is not train it.
Back to the off topic – is Garm still alive? Anyone know what happened to him?
Is anyone else thrown off by the missing tooth, poor complexion, sunken cheeks etc from a guy, 68 or not, who’s preaching about health and longevity?
Oh shit lol! I didn’t watch the video. He looks like a wino. Gotta get those teeth sorted LMAO.
Is anyone else thrown off by the missing tooth, poor complexion, sunken cheeks etc from a guy, 68 or not, who’s preaching about health and longevity?
I had the same reaction but then thought that almost every other fitness guru within 15 years his junior is on something. He was 50 at the RKC I went to back in the day and he was extremely impressive. One person could keep up with him, I think it was Anthony Dilberto, and Steve is not a technical lifter.
Is anyone else thrown off by the missing tooth, poor complexion, sunken cheeks etc from a guy, 68 or not, who’s preaching about health and longevity?
I had the same reaction but then thought that almost every other fitness guru within 15 years his junior is on something. He was 50 at the RKC I went to back in the day and he was extremely impressive. One person could keep up with him, I think it was Anthony Dilberto, and Steve is not a technical lifter.
The thing is, he’s not 50 anymore. He’s a senior citizen who looks the part in a bad way. It’s one thing to have gray hair, lose muscle mass and general physical fitness, but he doesn’t look healthy.
I never formed too much of an opinion on him, but he looks unwell. I can’t help but feel kind of sorry for someone who, especially if they’re a fitness gooroo, looks drawn out and is missing at least one tooth.
Missing teeth aren’t usually a sign of good health.
Maybe it’s because he just doesn’t have the financial well-being. Look at Mark Sisson compared to him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Mark is on some sort of TRT regimen, but it’s undeniable that one looks to be living the lifestyle they preach and it’s not Steve.
I’ve often wondered if some of Maxwell’s recommendations don’t have more to do with his present circumstances than any core physiological truths. For example, he ran a whole gym and put out courses on the use of typical gym equipment. Then, he sold his gym and was suddenly all about bodyweight and kettlebell circuits. Then he started traveling more, and sure enough, he switched to isometrics, which can be done anywhere without toting a kettlebell around.
A lot has been lost to the ravages of time and entropy. But I remember Rant calling out Steve M and essentially saying “this this guy is supposed to be all about health and longevity but he’s moving like shit.”
It was a pull up video of some sort and Steve M had elbow sleeves and wrist wraps and it was all very odd. And some other shit came up.
Rant got shit thrown at him for his take.
Thinking this through to it’s logistical conclusion and asking the question, from a pure observation / anecdotal perspective.
What is the best way to age well?
Back in the day, HVLN (where is this brother now????) postulated that the KB movement was wrong and powerbuilding was where it was at.
I’m more and more thinking this might the case.
If you want to be at your best at ANY age – a hybrid approach of old school bodybuilding, strength training, with a healthy dose of mobility and a drugs is the only way to go.
A lot has been lost to the ravages of time and entropy. But I remember Rant calling out Steve M and essentially saying “this this guy is supposed to be all about health and longevity but he’s moving like shit.”
It was a pull up video of some sort and Steve M had elbow sleeves and wrist wraps and it was all very odd. And some other shit came up.
Rant got shit thrown at him for his take.
Thinking this through to it’s logistical conclusion and asking the question, from a pure observation / anecdotal perspective.
What is the best way to age well?
Back in the day, HVLN (where is this brother now????) postulated that the KB movement was wrong and powerbuilding was where it was at.
I’m more and more thinking this might the case.
If you want to be at your best at ANY age – a hybrid approach of old school bodybuilding, strength training, with a healthy dose of mobility and a drugs is the only way to go.
Staying strong is probably the best way to stave off the time gods. More specifically, grip strength.
To feel good and avoid a lot of the age related illnesses, blood sugar issues etc, the best thing you can do is choose good parents. Other than that, strength training and maintaining muscle mass, along with eating a reasonably okay diet and sleeping more than I do are a good idea. That said, even though I don’t sleep enough and carry a lot of stress these days, my girlfriend who just turned 30 thought I was her age or younger when we met, and I just turned 38 a week ago. My dad’s side consistently looks 10-15 years younger. My grandmother looked 65 on her deathbed when she was 85, so win the genetics lottery and you should be fine.
That said, I think that kettlebells actually are a decent enough tool. They will certainly improve grip and the conditioning effect is kind of the primary point for most people.
The average person doesn’t want to to go the gym 3+ days a week, they don’t want to take up the space for a home gym, and they’ll get bored and/or frustrated focusing only on yoga. Maybe especially with the “power” yoga styles like Ashtanga.
There are plenty of DVDs and streaming options for kettlebell workouts and as long as you incorporate “grinds” and don’t go all Girivek faggot on everything, you could do a lot worse than 3 or 4 KB workouts with swings get ups, goblet squats, reverse lunges, DL variations and presses.
I think we lose track of what “average” is. I haven’t had anything close to impressive numbers in the gym by internet standards in a long time, but I have veins in my biceps still, my abs are at least in view year round, I walk 10k to 30k steps a day depending on my work schedule, I can still do 15 pull ups and I wear the same size pants and t-shirts as I did when I was 25.
A combination of weights, calisthenics, reincorporating KBs and…. bands, have feeling pretty good and I’ve got all the strength I need and I move pretty well, achy hip aside.
A lot has been lost to the ravages of time and entropy. But I remember Rant calling out Steve M and essentially saying “this this guy is supposed to be all about health and longevity but he’s moving like shit.” It was a pull up video of some sort and Steve M had elbow sleeves and wrist wraps and it was all very odd. And some other shit came up. Rant got shit thrown at him for his take. Thinking this through to it’s logistical conclusion and asking the question, from a pure observation / anecdotal perspective. What is the best way to age well? Back in the day, HVLN (where is this brother now????) postulated that the KB movement was wrong and powerbuilding was where it was at. I’m more and more thinking this might the case. If you want to be at your best at ANY age – a hybrid approach of old school bodybuilding, strength training, with a healthy dose of mobility and a drugs is the only way to go.
I’m impressed with the likes of Odd Haugen. Strong and vital as fuck for someone his age with his training background too. Perhaps more noticeably for me, he seems laidback and has a sense of humour. So many males his age seem to be cranky old aunts these days.
A lot has been lost to the ravages of time and entropy. But I remember Rant calling out Steve M and essentially saying “this this guy is supposed to be all about health and longevity but he’s moving like shit.” It was a pull up video of some sort and Steve M had elbow sleeves and wrist wraps and it was all very odd. And some other shit came up. Rant got shit thrown at him for his take. Thinking this through to it’s logistical conclusion and asking the question, from a pure observation / anecdotal perspective. What is the best way to age well? Back in the day, HVLN (where is this brother now????) postulated that the KB movement was wrong and powerbuilding was where it was at. I’m more and more thinking this might the case. If you want to be at your best at ANY age – a hybrid approach of old school bodybuilding, strength training, with a healthy dose of mobility and a drugs is the only way to go.
I’m impressed with the likes of Odd Haugen. Strong and vital as fuck for someone his age with his training background too. Perhaps more noticeably for me, he seems laidback and has a sense of humour. So many males his age seem to be cranky old aunts these days.
I saw him competing in a strongman contest here in Hawaii like 17 or 18 years ago and he was pretty old then. One thing to keep in mind is he has “help”. I don’t judge him for that and I don’t even think it’s a bad idea, but it’s an important caveat to evaluating his methods and longevity in sport. But then again, that doesn’t help his sense of humor, and that’s as important as anything when it comes to staying young.
Staying strong is probably the best way to stave off the time gods. More specifically, grip strength.
I’d say staying active is the best way. There are endless arguments about what’s best. Some folk say “strong backbone” is the key, probably meaning strong back muscles. Some insist on aerobic exercise, some on flexibility etc. I think you should have a little bit of all of it. Strength training, jogging, stretching, just moving around – it’s all good.
In my practice I see lots of old patients with fractured hips. Many of them are “fit” – going for long walks every day. Yet, one fall and they end up on the operating table. You obviously have to be fit enough so that a short run across the road doesn’t give you a coronary. But you need to have strength to be able to brace and take the impact of a fall with your arms as well (radial fractures in the elderly is another common condition I see – falls onto stretched arms). And flexible, so that there is no excess breaking momentum on your bone if you somehow end up in an awkward range. And some coordination, of course. A little bit of everything. Doesn’t have to be at Olympic level.
And fuck yeah, drugs are the answer to lots of problems. It’s all about risk versus reward. 20 year old stacking anabolics so that he can impress his friends is plain stupid. What’s the downside of a small to moderate doses of testosterone for a frail 70 – 80 year olds? Infertility? Watch for the old ladies getting horny, I get it. But overall benefits – better functionality, reduction of falls and fractures etc. – I my opinion override the risks.
I saw him competing in a strongman contest here in Hawaii like 17 or 18 years ago and he was pretty old then. One thing to keep in mind is he has “help”. I don’t judge him for that and I don’t even think it’s a bad idea, but it’s an important caveat to evaluating his methods and longevity in sport. But then again, that doesn’t help his sense of humor, and that’s as important as anything when it comes to staying young.
My reply to this went AWOL. I don’t know why I didn’t consciously acknowledge to myself he could be on a bit of something. Definitely makes a huge difference.
And fuck yeah, drugs are the answer to lots of problems. It’s all about risk versus reward. 20 year old stacking anabolics so that he can impress his friends is plain stupid. What’s the downside of a small to moderate doses of testosterone for a frail 70 – 80 year olds? Infertility? Watch for the old ladies getting horny, I get it. But overall benefits – better functionality, reduction of falls and fractures etc. – I my opinion override the risks.
So, what is your opinion of when a person should start considering pharmacological support? Is it a certain age? A certain physical state? Give me some excuses to become a juicepig.
And fuck yeah, drugs are the answer to lots of problems. It’s all about risk versus reward. 20 year old stacking anabolics so that he can impress his friends is plain stupid. What’s the downside of a small to moderate doses of testosterone for a frail 70 – 80 year olds? Infertility? Watch for the old ladies getting horny, I get it. But overall benefits – better functionality, reduction of falls and fractures etc. – I my opinion override the risks.
So, what is your opinion of when a person should start considering pharmacological support? Is it a certain age? A certain physical state? Give me some excuses to become a juicepig.
I’m 38 now and I’m on clomid for HRT. Over the last 100 days or so, I’ve noticed better workouts, improved sexual sensation (performance oddly enough held steady when my T was in the low 300s to low 400s, but I was a bit slower to, uh… get ready), better energy, and my mood is improved. I got a little backne going, but I’ve always been kind of prone to acne on my back, so hormonal changes will definitely trigger more breakouts.
My short term memory is shit, but I’m also swamped with work, have the personal stuff going, and I don’t come close to sleeping enough.
Interesting. Are you taking Clomid as an anti-estrogen/aromatase inhibitor by itself or are you taking it in combination with test? This is a judgment-free, safe space, so ‘fess up.
Just clomid, as that’ll raise test on it’s own. They don’t usually prescribe test to men under 40 with no kids.
I’m working on the having a kid part. It’s also raising fertility, so my swimmers are abundant and strong.
Good luck with the kiddos, they’re a ton of fun. Mine decided he was gonna use my weights this morning after I went to work and shattered the big French doors leading from my gym into the garden. Yay!
I can’t wait. It took me a long time of thinking I don’t want kids to know that now I really do. Broken windows and all.
Haugen was pretty beastly. Aged well. Kept his drug regimen intelligent.
I remember watching Maxwell do dips on a video for his 300 video, maybe, and it was quite weird, almost like he was only using his elbows to do it.
I think Maxwell was impressive because he stayed active and lean, and he really took off in popularity in a kind of weird era when there was a near obsession being lean and having abs. CrossFit was taking off and a lot of people wanted to look like the guys in the demo videos (more than a few sauced), Paleo was becoming a thing, kettlebells were getting more popular, and here was this guy in his 50s who still had abs and could do some legitimately cool stuff. He also was part of the DD crew early, right? I’m sure that helped him gain a foothold he wouldn’t have had otherwise.
Funny, saw SM on a recent interview and thought he looked no better than my 90 year old next door neighbour who just gardens and tinkers in his workshop for activity. Shame.
I do think the laundry list of ‘personal practices’ fitness influencers advocate these days for wellbeing and longevity are contrived bits of trendy bullshit with zero worth.
My other comment on this thread; strongfirst is the weirdest community going. Such a huge amount of time and energy invested into training methods that are largely shite. Fetishising minimalism as an aesthetic but in practice spending just as much time and money on exercise as any other gym goer. But with compromised results. Not to mention the weird tone of the place.
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