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Forums › Free Speech › If people can be born gay why can’t people be born homophobic?
I think you need to better define “homophobia” – without consulting a dictionary, I believe a “phobia” to be an *irrational* _fear_.
I also recall reading at some time* that humans are born with only two instinctive fears: heights and loud noises.
All that said, it is obvious that homosexuality is anathema to procreation which most people agree is the reason we have a sex drive. It seems quite natural then, that many, if not most, people would have an aversion to homosexuality. Not an irrational fear, but an in-group feeling that homosexuality is, at least, strange and perhaps even repugnant. This all being aside from other influences such as religion or other social pressures. So I don’t really think you can be *born* homophobic, or even having feelings about homosexuality one way or another, but I can certainly understand a rationalized aversion to it.
I don’t consider myself a homophobe, nor do I even care, really, what another’s sexual orientation is. It simply doesn’t matter outside my (monogamous) relations. I *do* however object to having it crammed down our throats as though we ought to laud it lest we be considered bigoted.
On another note, perhaps simply semantic, I fail to see a relation / link between being born gay (if such exists) and born homo-opposed. That is to say, I don’t see that assuming the former presupposes the possibility of the latter.
-Stick
*useless anecdote, since I no longer remember the source – could’ve been absolute BS.
I’m using homophobia–which you’re right to critique the term as a form of Orwellian newspeak which would be laughable, were it not taken seriously–in the colloquial sense it used today: an aversion to homosexuality and/or homosexuals.
“In heterosexual men, pictures of rotting flesh, maggots and spoiled food induce the same physiological stress response as pictures of two men kissing each other. That is the surprising finding that was recently published in the peer-reviewed scientific journal Psychology & Sexuality.”
“What is most important to note is that the responses did not differ as a function of self-reported levels of prejudice or self-reported levels of aggression towards gay men,” Blair explained. “In other words, it was not our highly prejudiced individuals who were experiencing a heightened physiological response to the images of same-sex couples kissing, it was everyone in the sample, even those with very low levels of prejudice.”
I don’t consider myself a homophobe, nor do I even care, really, what another’s sexual orientation is. It simply doesn’t matter outside my (monogamous) relations. I *do* however object to having it crammed down our throats as though we ought to laud it lest we be considered bigoted.
Having lived in places/times where people were super-uncool to gay people, it seems like if you really don’t care, nothing’s being crammed down your throat (odd choice of words though). It’s also possible to recognize, as a non-homophobe, that there are a lot of real homophobes out there who are all too happy to mess with somebody’s livelihood, family, and rights, and live-and-let-live sorts like yourself may support protection from that kind of treatment.
I don’t consider myself a homophobe, nor do I even care, really, what another’s sexual orientation is. It simply doesn’t matter outside my (monogamous) relations. I *do* however object to having it crammed down our throats as though we ought to laud it lest we be considered bigoted.
Having lived in places/times where people were super-uncool to gay people, it seems like if you really don’t care, nothing’s being crammed down your throat (odd choice of words though). It’s also possible to recognize, as a non-homophobe, that there are a lot of real homophobes out there who are all too happy to mess with somebody’s livelihood, family, and rights, and live-and-let-live sorts like yourself may support protection from that kind of treatment.
The official policy of the US Government is promotion of global homosexuality. This is a photo of the US Embassy in Sarajevo, BiH, a conservative Islamic country. It is the diplomatic equivalent of a middle finger and as close as one can get to “cramming down your throat” without penetration. It is the diametric opposite of “live and let live”. Homosexuals are known, quantifiable vectors for disease, drug and alcohol abuse, and suicide. And, as the study I posted shows, normal people have a natural aversion to them. When will you start trusting the science?
SCOTUS has more or less settled that mistreating homosexuals for being gay is not cool. It’s an American value today. USSR hated the Voice of America, too. They put those flags up in countries doing anti-gay rights stuff, they’re not demanding straight people start experimenting.
Many, many, many people around the world think that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. Many Americans do to. Your own religion teaches that it is wrong. It is waaaay beyond the bounds of good taste, or even constructive diplomacy, to do this. And no, they don’t only put it up in “countries doing anti-gay rights stuff”. The photo above is from fucking South Korea, where–if K-Pop is any indication–they’re ALL homos. It’s basically telling other countries that they cannot legislate their own sexual morality, which is so insanely totalitarian that you can’t possibly not see it.
SCOTUS has more or less settled that mistreating homosexuals for being gay is not cool. It’s an American value today. USSR hated the Voice of America, too. They put those flags up in countries doing anti-gay rights stuff, they’re not demanding straight people start experimenting.
Many, many, many people around the world think that homosexuality is immoral and wrong. Many Americans do to. Your own religion teaches that it is wrong.
Yes, these people should refrain from blowing dudes. I fully support someone saying, “I don’t do that because of my religion” and reject “You can’t do that because of my religion.” We see what happens in the ME when the theocrats run things.
The Church just had yet another embarrassment when the General Secretary of the US council of Catholic Bishops got outed in a particularly embarrassing way. You can draw a very straight line from organizations shaming gays to ending up filled with closet cases.
I’m not sure I understand your position on what somebody should do when they realize they’re gay.
Yes, these people should refrain from blowing dudes. I fully support someone saying, “I don’t do that because of my religion” and reject “You can’t do that because of my religion.” We see what happens in the ME when the theocrats run things. The Church just had yet another embarrassment when the General Secretary of the US council of Catholic Bishops got outed in a particularly embarrassing way. You can draw a very straight line from organizations shaming gays to ending up filled with closet cases. I’m not sure I understand your position on what somebody should do when they realize they’re gay.
Gay is an identity, homosexuality is a behavior. Now, I’ll answer your question when you answer mine: does the US have the right to dictate sexual morality to the world? If so, why? If not, zip it hippy.
Also, the reason you Roman schismatics have problems with faggot priests is because of your stupid rule about celibacy. You don’t have homo priests in the Orthodox church because they are expected to get married and have families. The celibacy rule attracts freaks and pedos.
“While a presidential memorandum is largely symbolic”
Symbolic gestures are not dictating.
Are you always this dishonest, or only when defending sodomites? From the article:
The memo directs U.S. agencies working abroad to work harder to combat the criminalization by foreign governments of LGBTQ status or conduct, and directs the State Department to include anti-LGBTQ violence, discrimination and laws in its annual human rights report.
It calls for increased efforts to ensure that LGBTQ asylum seekers have equal access to protection, expanded training for U.S. federal personnel, and potential increased use of priority referrals to expedite resettlement of vulnerable people.
And it instructs agencies to consider appropriate responses, including the full range of diplomatic tools, and potentially financial sanctions and visa restrictions, when foreign governments restricted the rights of LGBTQ people.
This isn’t how policy is set. It’s not legislation, and it’s not an order. A presidential memorandum is a “symbolic gesture.” You can think of it like other symbolic gestures, such as hanging a flag.
What are gay people supposed to do when they discover they’re gay? I am not pretending to misunderstand. I don’t know what you think.
This isn’t how policy is set. It’s not legislation, and it’s not an order. A presidential memorandum is a “symbolic gesture.” You can think of it like other symbolic gestures, such as hanging a flag. What are gay people supposed to do when they discover they’re gay? I am not pretending to misunderstand. I don’t know what you think.
Wrong. The State Department is part of the executive branch. As such, the President does, in fact, set policy for them and then direct them to use their apparatus and resources towards executing those policies. It even has its own intelligence agency, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, and maintains a law enforcement arm, the Diplomatic Security Service. So again, it is not purely symbolic.
Regarding what people are supposed to do when they discover that they’re gay…is not the topic of this discussion. I’ve already pointed out that gay is an identity, and as such, is voluntary. What you mean to be asking is what are people supposed to do when they discover they have homosexual attractions. And I would imagine that, within the normal bounds of reason (i.e., no kids), they should behave however their conscience dictates. You won’t find me advocating for any harassment–legal or otherwise–of homosexuals, but I am absolutely opposed to badgering other countries about it. It’s not making us friends, its making us enemies, and runs counter to the purpose of diplomacy.
People can certainly be born gay. Anyone who works with children, or has had a gay child knows this. If people can be born gay, then people can be born straight. Duh.
But homophobia is not something you are born with. It is a learned behavior.
I grew up in a country hick, cowboy shit kicker town. I did not know a single “out” gay person growing up. And if anyone had come out, they would have had their asses kicked.
There were/are millions of conscious and subconscious cues growing up that showed me that a man kissing a man was “disgusting.” It was something I learned. Both culture, religion, and just life.
But things change.
Going to college and meeting gay people. Teaching and realizing that there are “gay” kids. Having gay friends and being part of their lives. Talking to real honest people struggling with gender issues. Hanging out with real “trans” people.
Homophobia? It’s all a sad, sick joke. There are boys who are born and love other boys. Same with girls. There always have been and there always will be. That is fact and that is nature.
Yes. Governments, culture, society, etc. need to promote this. Yes, people need to accept this. No one has ever had the shit kicked out of them for being straight. People have been killed for being gay.
It is well past the year 2000. If a guy loves a guy and wants to go to yogurtland and get a yogurt and kiss his boyfriend at the table this is fine. I don’t care. It doesn’t bother me. And honestly it shouldn’t bother you.
Pride all the way.
But homophobia is not something you are born with. It is a learned behavior.
Prove it. We know that there is no genetic basis to homosexuality:
I already posted a scientific study that identified averse natural reactions to the sight of two men kissing. All you’re doing is parroting the party line and countering an argument I haven’t made. I’m not for criminalizing or hassling gay people in any way, but I am opposed to America promoting homosexuality around the world as if it is something to be proud of, which it most certainly is not, and pressuring other societies to adopt globo-homo values, which is wrong.
The single genetic cause study doesn’t prove people are not born gay. It only proves they could not find a single genetic source. Anyone who has gay friends and family members knows people who were born knowing they were different and attracted to the same sex. And even then, it doesn’t matter. Who cares if a person was born gay or has chosen to be gay. If you choose that your path to sexual and romantic fulfillment is through the same sex, what’s the difference?
In regards to the kissing study, that’s a stupid study. Of course many men are going to find the images of men kissing to be gross. They’ve spent their life learning this through a thousand social cues. Show them some lesbian porn and their reactions are going to be a lot different. Kids think boys and girls kissing is gross until they learn through their culture it is not. Once someone lets go of their bullshit they stop having those averse reactions.
This is a human rights issue. The LGBTQ+ community has every right to live their lives out and as open as their straight community members. With the long historical persecution and bias against them it is more than appropriate for the government to support and promote gay rights, both here in our country and abroad.
With the long historical persecution and bias against them it is more than appropriate for the government to support and promote gay rights, both here in our country and abroad.
No. The role of the United States government is to execute the will of the people through democratic, republican processes. There is no consensus about teh gays and the promotion of faggery in other countries is not reflective of the will of the American people, it’s a top down diktat. Don’t you ever feel a sense of shame and disgust that all your values are so utterly insipid and bland?
With the long historical persecution and bias against them it is more than appropriate for the government to support and promote gay rights, both here in our country and abroad.
No. The role of the United States government is to execute the will of the people through democratic, republican processes. There is no consensus about teh gays and the promotion of faggery in other countries is not reflective of the will of the American people, it’s a top down diktat. Don’t you ever feel a sense of shame and disgust that all your values are so utterly insipid and bland?
But that’s not really the whole story. It’s to execute the will of the people to the extent that freedoms and rights guaranteed in the constitution are not infringed upon. I don’t think desegregation was a clear cut case of will of the people. It was long fought through the court systems to show that segregation was a breach of the constitution.
It’s the same with abortion. Abortion has not always been the defacto default majority. It was a court decision.
And more and more it is the will of the people that the LGBTQ+ community have their rights guaranteed. You see this through pop culture, through corporate policy, support for gay marriage, etc. etc. At this point the idea that gay people are “sin and perversion” is definitely in the minority.
My views are rooted in my experiences with people and in seeing all people as human first. There is nothing insipid or bland about it.
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