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Forums › Trooper’s Training Forum – In memory of Col. James “Jim” R Tirey, USA › Strength…..Conditioning
Strength
Slow, controlled reps. Goal is heavier, more sets….maybe more reps.
Conditioning
Fast reps. Goal is harder, faster, more reps…maybe more sets.
Lately, my bitch-ass has been terrified of fucking up my (mostly older, pre-existing injury having) clientele. I’ve scaled way back from “conditioning” and been doing mostly “strength.”
Where do you stand on this?
Obligatory side-note: I did a ton of “conditioning” for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu — sledgehammer smashes + tire flips….100 burpees as fast as possible…etc. — compared to more Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu sessions, it was not effective for conditioning.
Sangoma,
I agree with the gist of what that thread is saying (having read 2 of the 21 pages), that training at a lower % of your 1RM and being more careful in general with intensity — carefully managing things like drop sets, super-sets for the same area, or harder variations (Bulgarian split-squats vs stationary lunges) — will lower your chance of injury.
I don’t think that conversely justifies going hard blindly when you’re younger. My best high school friend was a beast who tried to max out the leg press and shredded his knee tendons…at 19, I developed heavy rotator cuff tendonitis from a program of benching and swimming, etc.
The less injuries, the more leeway you have, but the more thoughtful your training is the further you’ll go at any age.
From my observation volume is a big factor in terms of injury. I tried loudly glorified anti-glycolytic training from StrongFirst and got my rotator flare up after two sessions. I probably increased the volume too quickly. I tend to do better rotating exercises and doing frequent but shorter training sessions.
I think after the age of 50 max effort is not a very good idea. Even when I train to failure it is “sort of” failure. Max – “sort of” max. For example, yesterday I did chins DoggCrapp style: 12-6-3. Every set I could probably squeeze another rep, but didn’t. Maybe it’s not the most optimal, but at least I have no regrets.
The most amusing shit that tends to catch me as I got older is that symptoms are delayed. When I was 25 years old I would train, pull a muscle, felt it straight away and would be forced to stop the training session. These days pain is delayed. I would feel good during a squat workout, for example, push it and be proud of myself. Then couple of hours later I would feel something not right in my lower back. The next morning – agony. That’s why I have to really watch the numbers very closely during my workouts. I also stop at the slightest sign of strain or pain. Fuck it, I rather catch up at the next session than having to take a break for three weeks because of injury.
When I was 25 years old I would train, pull a muscle, felt it straight away and would be forced to stop the training session. These days pain is delayed. I would feel good during a squat workout, for example, push it and be proud of myself. Then couple of hours later I would feel something not right in my lower back. The next morning – agony. That’s why I have to really watch the numbers very closely during my workouts. I also stop at the slightest sign of strain or pain. Fuck it, I rather catch up at the next session than having to take a break for three weeks because of injury.
Very interesting!
Well, part of the problem is the terms we are using…
I’d say there’s three kinds of intensity (feel free to chime in y’all):
Intensity as a % of your 1RM. If you can squat 315lbs x 1, then 315 x 0.85 = 267.75lbs or 85% of your 1RM
Intensity in “training to failure.” If you can do 10 pull-ups with a gun to your head, then that would be full effort.
Intensity from special approaches. Drop sets, super-sets, burnout sets, anti-glycolytic training as Sangoma mentioned, etc.
For volume, although there are lots of ways to count it (e.g., total weight lifted in a session), I use only one:
Volume as a measure of work sets. If I do a set of barbell curls, that’s one set of biceps. If I do two sets of barbell curls, and two sets of dumbbell hammer curls, that’s four sets of biceps.
—
Now, if you accept the difference here between “intensity” and “volume,” then volume isn’t the issue per se. Yes, if you give a beginner 8 sets of moderate intensity biceps curls, then you’re an idiot. It’s too much of a training effect. But if you start them with 2-3 sets, then add 1-2 more sets every 2-4 additional weeks, you allow the beginner to adapt.
—
Last point that comes to mind…
Having had the luxury to get into lifting in my early 20’s, I found very little benefit from things like “drop sets,” “burnout sets,” “forced negatives,” etc.
All I’ve ever had to do to pack muscle on was a) eat, and b) slowly up the work sets and training frequency (almost never training a muscle more than twice a week). Weight per work set would come up naturally. I might start with 5 sets of dumbbell bench (2 incline, 2 flat, 1 decline), using 35’s-40’s on Week 1, then by Week 4 be doing 8 sets with 50’s or heavier.
There are hybrid systems (starting with a max effort lift or dynamic lift), but this general approach has been safe and effective.
From my observation volume is a big factor in terms of injury. I tried loudly glorified anti-glycolytic training from StrongFirst and got my rotator flare up after two sessions. I probably increased the volume too quickly. I tend to do better rotating exercises and doing frequent but shorter training sessions. I think after the age of 50 max effort is not a very good idea. Even when I train to failure it is “sort of” failure. Max – “sort of” max. For example, yesterday I did chins DoggCrapp style: 12-6-3. Every set I could probably squeeze another rep, but didn’t. Maybe it’s not the most optimal, but at least I have no regrets. The most amusing shit that tends to catch me as I got older is that symptoms are delayed. When I was 25 years old I would train, pull a muscle, felt it straight away and would be forced to stop the training session. These days pain is delayed. I would feel good during a squat workout, for example, push it and be proud of myself. Then couple of hours later I would feel something not right in my lower back. The next morning – agony. That’s why I have to really watch the numbers very closely during my workouts. I also stop at the slightest sign of strain or pain. Fuck it, I rather catch up at the next session than having to take a break for three weeks because of injury.
And yeah, man, lifting is sketchy as fuck! Form that’s slightly off, having pre-existing injuries, being deconditioned, not being recovered….all of this can lead to any one of us getting injured.
I’ve been trying to do heavier lifting lately. I had been doing a lot of really high-rep work (I guess you could call it ‘conditioning’ if you want) like in the 20-200 rep range for squats and in the hundreds for kettlebell snatches (though far from speedy on anything, it would put my HR into the 70%+ range for 30-60minutes at a time).
I think you need both as you age. Neglecting higher intensity work was a mistake strength-wise and trying to build it back up (when I should have tried at least a little to maintain it) sucks.
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