Drinking helps you live longer. Period. Full stop.

[Sangoma]

Look dude. You can't have it both ways. You can't deny the sky pixie and be a scientist or deploy logical categories. There is a reason why the Buddhists are the atheists favorite. It's because they are atheists. And they honestly deny all your science. They call it maya or illusion. They explicitly state that all your science and all your logic and all the patterns and rationality you see is false, an illusion. That is what an atheist has to believe. If you believe in science and the logical categories you at bottom believe in the sky pixie. Who created science and the categories? Aristotle. And Aristotle got that if all the shit around us and in our heads makes sense, there has to be a prime mover and efficient cause. No other option. If you deny the sky pixie you deny science and logic and cause and effect etc.

Benny, you're feverish. Buddhists are neither atheists nor they deny science. If you bother to read something remotely serious about Buddhism you will learn about the duality that permeates that religion. So the existence of the ego is an illusion and at the same time it is the centre of the Universe. Logic will not help to understand this, only sitting, and for quite a long time. The concept of maya doesn't refer to the laws of physics or chemistry. Neither is the Buddhist of the law of cause and effect limited to material world and science. If anything, it demonstrates limitations of science in understanding and explaining reality.

[bennyonesix]

Logic will not help to understand this, only sitting, and for quite a long time.

Why are you pretending to argue with me?

Paradoxical thinking is atheistic.

It is not scientific or logical.

[Sangoma]

I was testing the hypothesis that you're arguing with me.

[bennyonesix]

Ahhh so you aren't an atheist. Excellent.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Look dude. You can't have it both ways. You can't deny the sky pixie and be a scientist or deploy logical categories. There is a reason why the Buddhists are the atheists favorite. It's because they are atheists. And they honestly deny all your science. They call it maya or illusion. They explicitly state that all your science and all your logic and all the patterns and rationality you see is false, an illusion. That is what an atheist has to believe. If you believe in science and the logical categories you at bottom believe in the sky pixie. Who created science and the categories? Aristotle. And Aristotle got that if all the shit around us and in our heads makes sense, there has to be a prime mover and efficient cause. No other option. If you deny the sky pixie you deny science and logic and cause and effect etc.

Uhh...yeah I can. I can and like most people, I do.

Aristotle believed in alchemy as well, SFW? All human knowledge development amounts to absorb what is useful...discard what is useless....So don't run that rubbish of somehow being trapped in tautological nets going back to cave paintings. No...I personally don't buy into the sky pixie, it's simply not a logical conclusion from any available evidence. I can however, upon evidence of the sky pixie change my mind and still have been fundamentally correct.

Equating the "belief" in the most common of all logical principles (which predate the notion of science altogether) show me evidence, test the evidence, repeat the test... is not equivalent to "belief" that says trust me, no seriously trust me...keep trusting me.

It's utter nonsense and you know it.

At best you can say, whether there is or is not a God is pretty much irrelevant if the behavior of practicing that belief reveals some tangible, testable benefit over the alternative. I submit that the bald assertion that there is a benefit to everyone is nonsense. Some might, many don't...most would do better to focus on what they can do than on what they "believe".

[Blaidd Drwg]

And since you like labels I'm probably an apatheist.

[bennyonesix]

Aristotle believed in alchemy as well, SFW? All human knowledge development amounts to absorb what is useful...discard what is useless....So don't run that rubbish of somehow being trapped in tautological nets going back to cave paintings. No...I personally don't buy into the sky pixie, it's simply not a logical conclusion from any available evidence. I can however, upon evidence of the sky pixie change my mind and still have been fundamentally correct.

I am not asking how or whether science works.

I am asking you why science works.

So, why does science work?

Why does logic work?

[Blaidd Drwg]

Because they are testable.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Boodles rocks, whisper of tonic, tiny wedge of lime. Season two of Breaking Bad. All good. ;-)

[Sangoma]

No...I personally don't buy into the sky pixie, it's simply not a logical conclusion from any available evidence. I can however, upon evidence of the sky pixie change my mind and still have been fundamentally correct.

Equating the "belief" in the most common of all logical principles (which predate the notion of science altogether) show me evidence, test the evidence, repeat the test... is not equivalent to "belief" that says trust me, no seriously trust me...keep trusting me.

There are a lot of things that cannot be tested by logic or science, yet they are pretty obvious. For instance, quality. How do you define it? How do you prove that something is an example of art or bad taste? Ask ten thousand people to rate it out of ten and get mathematical average? What kind of evidence could convince you to believe in God, whatever this word means to you?

Coming back to my initial assertion about benefits of believing in higher powers. Picture a huge stream of water that carries you along. You can either try swim against it or catch the flow and adjust the course with the corrective strokes. That's how I see life. I don't understand forces driving my circumstances? Why do I get lucky in one instance and not the other? In some of my initiatives I calculated every step, yet many of them ended up in tears. In some others I was sloppy and yet sometimes succeeded. And sometimes I know that "it's going to be ok". If you believe that the flow of things is governed by higher laws and everything is the manifestation of something much larger than what you can see life becomes easier. That's why I think people would benefit in believing in higher power.

The argument about this is pretty pointless, of course. Where is Dan John when you need him... But I suspect he is wiser that the participants of this tread and will not get suckered in.

[Blaidd Drwg]

You had a decent point and then you called in a fitness guru. Oi....what a great waste.

Go with whatever flow you need....just don't try to argue it makes anymore sense than the Easter bunny. Good taste doesn't need testing...it's utterly subjective and therefore pointless to really argue...ideas on how to live your life are certainly worth testing without devolving to "the color blue you see" stoner Nonsense

[Blaidd Drwg]

Fitness guru and a papist... Ugh. You should be ashamed.

[Sangoma]

You had a decent point and then you called in a fitness guru. Oi....what a great waste.

Go with whatever flow you need....just don't try to argue it makes anymore sense than the Easter bunny. Good taste doesn't need testing...it's utterly subjective and therefore pointless to really argue...ideas on how to live your life are certainly worth testing without devolving to "the color blue you see" stoner Nonsense

Good taste is not subjective at all and is testable, by time. It's the sense that Easter bunny or flow of life is supposed to make that is subjective.
Here is Zen can for you: Is testing the taste the same as tasting the test?

There is a good book that talks about tangible and intangible things, A Guide For The Perplexed by Schumacher.

I got you with the reference to Dan John, HA!

[bennyonesix]

Because they are testable.

You are better than that.





What does it mean that they are testable?

[bennyonesix]

Boodles rocks, whisper of tonic, tiny wedge of lime. Season two of Breaking Bad. All good. ;-)

I dine, I play a game of backgammon, I converse, and am merry with my friends; and when after three or four hours’ amusement I would return to these speculations, they appear so cold and strained and ridiculous that I cannot find [it] in my heart to enter into them any farther.- Treatise if Human Nature. (I.IV.7; Hume, 1978, p. 269) (I.IV.7; Hume, 1978, p. 269)

[Blaidd Drwg]

Up to your butt in poems and koans trying desperately not to see the world as it is.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Stay drunk lads... Just stay drunk

[Sangoma]

Up to your butt in poems and koans trying desperately not to see the world as it is.

Koans serve exactly that purpose, to help see the world as it is. Trying to explain reality by words is similar to trying to play the Ode to Joy on the African drums. Poems (and music and art to some degree) serve the same purpose, by evoking associations rather than logic. That's why sometimes you need a page of prose to explain the meaning of one four-line stanza.

I am quite surprised by your intensity in this topic. If you decide to open your mind try Zen and the Art of the Motorcycle Maintenance by Piercig, it offers a nice middle ground discussion about the reality.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I've read and continue to read a lot of philosophy, which is all well and good for exploring your own consciousness, but all the navel gazing in a world cannot be rationally repackaged as exploring the and understanding the natural world in an objective way.

(As a side note, I find it hilarious that for all the inward revelry most armchair Philosophers engage in, less than .0001% would ever do anything to actually explore consciousness in a concrete way, I recommend not pussyfooting around with it, try Ayahuasca or DMT. Seriously, If y'all want to have a religious experience, I can engineer one for you in an afternoon)


So, to circle back to the OT, what people facing addiction/behavior issues need is a whole lot less introspection and a whole fuckload load more do this, not that. Develop mastery and control, don't cede it to the sky pixie or quantum theory or whichever Nuevo Buddhism that's currently available on kindle.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

So, to circle back to the OT, what people facing addiction/behavior issues need is a whole lot less introspection and a whole fuckload load more do this, not that. Develop mastery and control, don't cede it to the sky pixie or quantum theory or whichever Nuevo Buddhism that's currently available on kindle.

Every time I think it's time to hang-up my OG IGx status and leave you retarded fucksticks for good, a gem like this appears.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

So, to circle back to the OT, what people facing addiction/behavior issues need is a whole lot less introspection and a whole fuckload load more do this, not that. Develop mastery and control, don't cede it to the sky pixie or quantum theory or whichever Nuevo Buddhism that's currently available on kindle.

I've been sitting back and enjoying you guys arguing about whether or not people should believe in something. I personally don't give a shit, either way.
Once again, you aren't far off from what AA is all about. There are a lot of AA cliches (a lot!). A couple of my favorites, "This is a program of action", and "There isn't a chapter in the book called 'Into Contemplation'" (there is one called "Into Action").
Juxtapose this with your quote in my sig.

[bennyonesix]

Kaz, you ever mess around with the breathalyzer you were talking about?

[Koko, Beware]

Now that I have read the recent articles on fecal bacteria in beards, boy I am happy to say I can be shitfaced in safety again.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Kaz, you ever mess around with the breathalyzer you were talking about?

You meant to address me.

I did for a bit, but since I am not getting 'drunk' (only hit .08 once and that felt like nothing, of course), I ended up putting it in the desk drawer. Playing with one of the food app logs now on the phone.

I could see where the breathalyzer would be very beneficial for those who keep pushing the boundaries of their tolerance. It would have been a good tool for me to use a few years back.

[bennyonesix]

Kaz, you ever mess around with the breathalyzer you were talking about?

You meant to address me.

I did for a bit, but since I am not getting 'drunk' (only hit .08 once and that felt like nothing, of course), I ended up putting it in the desk drawer. Playing with one of the food app logs now on the phone.

I could see where the breathalyzer would be very beneficial for those who keep pushing the boundaries of their tolerance. It would have been a good tool for me to use a few years back.

I did mean to address you. Sorry Bogatir. I was thinking the same thing you did.