Occupy Wall Street

[johno]

"destruction of the commons" is a genuine issue.

Yes, it is, as it has been for every civilization that has had the power to affect its environment.
But, IMO, it's a side issue for OWS. It's not primarily an environmentalist movement, from what I've seen.

[Fat Cat]

Rewind the clock to 1988; I had my Masters, was 28, and had no job.

No health insurance. No pension. Shacked up with friends. Assload of student loan debt (which I'm still paying back today). No help from the parents, either.

Landed a job driving a forklift and trucks for a construction company. Busted my ass, and taught myself how to program a PC-based database system for inventory control in the evenings, using a friend's computer. Took the computer into the big boss's office one day, showed him what I'd made - and suddenly I was not driving a forklift, except on the rare occurrence that there was a rush, and nobody else was available.

Busted my ass, regularly clocking 70-80 hour work weeks, until finally in 1995, I was in a position where I could afford health insurance, and something other than a beater car. Took me until 2002 (age 40) to own a house.

I don't see anything wrong with this. I just don't see the point of OWS.

If you can't see that you still paying off your college education 23 years later is counterproductive, all I can say is I disagree.

[Schlegel]

If you can't see that you still paying off your college education 23 years later is counterproductive, all I can say is I disagree.

Mine was 10 years, but that was because I only paid $115 a month. This didn't seem unreasonable to me, and if I had initially gone in to a higher paying field I'd have paid it a lot faster. Lots of people had 5 to 10 times my debt, which is insane, IMO.

[Herv100]

The high cost of tuition is the result of government getting involved in the education industry. Just like the high costs of health care are a result of goverent getting involved in the industry. These people seem to want even more government in order to make things right. In the end it will make it worse.

[dead man walking]

"destruction of the commons" is a genuine issue.

Yes, it is, as it has been for every civilization that has had the power to affect its environment.
But, IMO, it's a side issue for OWS. It's not primarily an environmentalist movement, from what I've seen.

fair point, johno.

many of the occupiers appears constitutionally disaffected and inarticulate.

destruction/preservation of the commons is an element in corporate greed/responsibility, which is an occupy issue, i think.

our markets have socialized many environmental costs. socialism is not just giving welfare and medicaid to the poor and outliers. it is also increasing the profits to corporations and shareholders by having policies that put corporate costs across all of society.

if anyone at occupy anywhere were to articulate that principle, my guess is, the communards would say, "right on, brother." at least that's what they would say back in the day. i don't know what they say now.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

To illustrate my point, the face of economic and historic ignorance:

"destruction of the commons" is a genuine issue.

the right talks about environmental regulation killing jobs. the left talks about destruction of the commons. they offer different views of the public good.

a number of businesses have, and still do, profit at the expense of the public's health. i think that is wrong. but can we afford to correct the wrong?

how do you resolve a genuine dilemma? tea party slogans are horseshit. as are people sitting in redwoods.

constructive living is a useful book, but it doesn't address this.

OWS'ers are not, on the whole, going that deep. From what I can tell, the whole of the OWS wants jobs created for them on your tax dollar and will wait for them vs. competing for what is available and they want entitlement programs, loan forgiveness, ect. Perhaps I see the typical hippster protester as far more shallow than he really is, but I suspect you're giving them way too much credit in terms of depth of 'the cause'.

If an unemployed OWS'er took say "Constructive Living" to heart, he'd get a job at Starbucks working second shift while being that squeaky wheel on careermonsterbuilder.com, job fairs and networking events to pursue their chosen profession.

I find it hard to believe the gal in that picture has an iota of self worth. She wants that given to her, too.

[dead man walking]

OWS'ers are not, on the whole, going that deep.

you could be right. i'm guess i'm using the occupation as a springboard to touch on some of these issues, regardless of the views of occupiers themselves.

and you are correct that constructive living is a good guide.

[DrDonkeyLove]

I find it hard to believe the gal in that picture has an iota of self worth. She wants that given to her, too.

You're probably right. Or, perhaps, she's all self esteem and wrapped up in the self-righteousness of being a crusader.

I see that she bites her nails and can't organize coherent thoughts into a whole that makes sense. I wonder if she'd believe that I, too, want to live in a society based on compassion, scientific reality, and responsible use of our resources even though we'd probably disagree on most everything related to what that society looks like.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I find it hard to believe the gal in that picture has an iota of self worth. She wants that given to her, too.

You're probably right. Or, perhaps, she's all self esteem and wrapped up in the self-righteousness of being a crusader.

I see that she bites her nails and can't organize coherent thoughts into a whole that makes sense. I wonder if she'd believe that I, too, want to live in a society based on compassion, scientific reality, and responsible use of our resources even though we'd probably disagree on most everything related to what that society looks like.

The nail biting is hard to miss and her 'work' is likely not a paying 'job'. Blogger with writer's block gets my first guess. Protest Poster Maker gets my second guess.

[johno]

From what I can tell, the whole of the OWS wants jobs created for them on your tax dollar and will wait for them vs. competing for what is available and they want entitlement programs, loan forgiveness, ect.

Pretty much sums up the driving force for most of them. That, and wanting to hang out.


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[johno]

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — As the Occupy Sacramento movement settles in for another night inside Cesar Chavez Park, another group sits, watches and wonders if they’ll ever get what they call “their park” back.

“These homeless people have been out here alot longer than you have,” one homeless person tells CBS13.

For years this plaza in the heart of Sacramento has been a homeless hide-away. But some just want the Occupy group to go away:

“I just wish they’d give us our park back,” one homeless woman says.

[Sangoma]

The high cost of tuition is the result of government getting involved in the education industry. Just like the high costs of health care are a result of goverent getting involved in the industry.

How come?

[baffled]

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — As the Occupy Sacramento movement settles in for another night inside Cesar Chavez Park, another group sits, watches and wonders if they’ll ever get what they call “their park” back.

“These homeless people have been out here alot longer than you have,” one homeless person tells CBS13.

For years this plaza in the heart of Sacramento has been a homeless hide-away. But some just want the Occupy group to go away:

“I just wish they’d give us our park back,” one homeless woman says.

Sacramento has a special kind of asshole in it. Namely, about 15 of my cousins.

These stories of the occupiers pushing homeless people out, and harming small business and vendors are growing louder. I wouldn't be shocked if the occupiers experience a serious crash in whatever public opinion may still be in their favor.

Wasn't there an article linked somewhere in this thread about the OWS crowd shunning the local homeless who were down to get food from their mess tents or whatever they're calling them?

[dead man walking]

Just like the high costs of health care are a result of goverent getting involved in the industry. .

not sure that's the big issue.

technology enables us to keep people alive much longer and to do so much more for them. from teeny preemies to geezers like andy, we developed drugs, procedures, and substitute parts. it all costs. a lot.

on top of which, we currently have socialized medicine and have for years. the guy without insurance gets treated in the er, and society pays. some say, let the fucker die. more reasonable people say, have him buy health insurance, just as we make him buy car insurance.

it won't be long before we ration health care. then the divide between rich and not so rich will get seriously ugly.

[Turdacious]

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — As the Occupy Sacramento movement settles in for another night inside Cesar Chavez Park, another group sits, watches and wonders if they’ll ever get what they call “their park” back.

“These homeless people have been out here alot longer than you have,” one homeless person tells CBS13.

For years this plaza in the heart of Sacramento has been a homeless hide-away. But some just want the Occupy group to go away:

“I just wish they’d give us our park back,” one homeless woman says.

Sacramento has a special kind of asshole in it. Namely, about 15 of my cousins.

These stories of the occupiers pushing homeless people out, and harming small business and vendors are growing louder. I wouldn't be shocked if the occupiers experience a serious crash in whatever public opinion may still be in their favor.

Wasn't there an article linked somewhere in this thread about the OWS crowd shunning the local homeless who were down to get food from their mess tents or whatever they're calling them?

There've been several-- New York is where they were turning the homeless away; Boston is where they were taking the scarce resources meant for the homeless for themselves.

[Turdacious]

it won't be long before we ration health care. then the divide between rich and not so rich will get seriously ugly.

So far this has been Obamacare's only real accomplishment.

[Steggy]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh ... yJWAJu4AhO

A business owner near the Occupy Wall Street encampment claims she has been repeatedly harassed and threatened with bodily harm by protesters after she and her employees refused to give in to their outlandish demands.

“I’ve been told, ‘Watch your back!’ 10 times,” Stacey Tzortzatos, owner of Panini & Co. Breads, located across from Zuccotti Park, told The Post yesterday.

She and her employees are terrified by the constant threats, which she said began after she demanded the protesters stop using her shop’s restroom as a place to bathe every day.

The final straw came about two weeks ago, when the demonstrators broke a bathroom sink, flooding the shop, and clogged the toilet -- setting her back $3,000 in damages

That's showing big business!

[johno]

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) — As the Occupy Sacramento movement settles in for another night inside Cesar Chavez Park, another group sits, watches and wonders if they’ll ever get what they call “their park” back.

“These homeless people have been out here alot longer than you have,” one homeless person tells CBS13.

For years this plaza in the heart of Sacramento has been a homeless hide-away. But some just want the Occupy group to go away:

“I just wish they’d give us our park back,” one homeless woman says.

Sacramento has a special kind of asshole in it. Namely, about 15 of my cousins.

These stories of the occupiers pushing homeless people out, and harming small business and vendors are growing louder. I wouldn't be shocked if the occupiers experience a serious crash in whatever public opinion may still be in their favor.

Wasn't there an article linked somewhere in this thread about the OWS crowd shunning the local homeless who were down to get food from their mess tents or whatever they're calling them?

There've been several-- New York is where they were turning the homeless away; Boston is where they were taking the scarce resources meant for the homeless for themselves.

This is a microcosm of how the OWS'ers will deal with The Commons.
They're shitting all over The Commons. When they're not shitting all over some small business's private toilet.

[Turdacious]

Occupy Denver has elected a three-year-old border collie named Shelby as its official leader.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/246260/ ... leader.htm

Finally a member of the Occupy movement that Lienap would be willing to hire!!!!!!!!!!

[dead man walking]

you shoot-the-messenger types should pay attention to the royal rape wall street is conducting on your precious country

A federal judge sharply questioned the Securities and Exchange Commission about why it didn't force Citigroup Inc. to admit to "what the facts are" before the agency agreed to settle a mortgage-bond case for $285 million.

He questioned why the SEC only sought $160 million in alleged illicit profits—the regulator claims Citigroup profited from the deal—when investors may have lost more than $700 million in the deal.

on wall st, crime pays.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

you shoot-the-messenger types should pay attention to the royal rape wall street is conducting on your precious country

A federal judge sharply questioned the Securities and Exchange Commission about why it didn't force Citigroup Inc. to admit to "what the facts are" before the agency agreed to settle a mortgage-bond case for $285 million.

He questioned why the SEC only sought $160 million in alleged illicit profits—the regulator claims Citigroup profited from the deal—when investors may have lost more than $700 million in the deal.

on wall st, crime pays.

I am disappointed that you really see these people as the messengers of what I suspect is your chief complaint.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

you shoot-the-messenger types should pay attention to the royal rape wall street is conducting on your precious country

A federal judge sharply questioned the Securities and Exchange Commission about why it didn't force Citigroup Inc. to admit to "what the facts are" before the agency agreed to settle a mortgage-bond case for $285 million.

He questioned why the SEC only sought $160 million in alleged illicit profits—the regulator claims Citigroup profited from the deal—when investors may have lost more than $700 million in the deal.

on wall st, crime pays.

I am disappointed that you really see these people as the messengers of what I suspect is your chief complaint.

[dead man walking]

i see this incohate, inarticulate aggregation as the manifestation of a genuine grievance.

hence my amateur attempt to point out both flaws in our system and criminal behavior by the powerful, the combination of which has gotten us in the current situation

[Shafpocalypse Now]

I want that roustabout job. Will it involve rousting about?

[Turdacious]

i see this incohate, inarticulate aggregation as the manifestation of a genuine grievance.

Inchoate and inarticulate suggests that their college education dollars were utterly wasted.