Phillip Seymour Hoffman dead

[Mickey O'neil]

I just thew up in my mouth a little. What the fuck is wrong with her?

Also Serena Williams called him Phillip Semen Hoffmore on some show.



Eat a dick racists she's hot as fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[nafod]

My daughter is in the 8th grade and she says she hears of parties that kids have and go to where there is a bowl of pills where you can take from. I find that somewhat hard to believe but you never know. I sorta know the mom of one of the girls and I have my suspicion that she's on the coke.

No fucking chance.

Tell her to take a pic of said bowl of random free (no-limit?) drugs for 8th grade girls next time. Not calling your daughter a liar but I am saying she is wrong as fuck or exaggerating.

You must know that too or I assume she would be banned from going to the free drugz house.

I should have emphasized this is hearsay. My daughter doesn't go to these parties or any parties really except for a few friends' birthday parties. She really has only a couple of friends she hangs out with and is probably a little naive.

I'm kind of a strict parent.

Yeah I've heard about that kind of party before. Where every kid brings pills they stole from their parents, they put them all in big bowl, and then everyone takes some pills from the bowl not even knowing what pills they're taking. I think it's kind of an urban legend that probably happened once somewhere, and now it just gets talked about like it happens all the time. Like the rainbow parties where the girls all wear different color lipstick and give blow jobs, so the boys have multi-colored rings on their dicks.

You should read that story I linked to. Stuff that went on not far from what you just said.

Here's the thing about kids..

They Lie. Children ages 2-24 are hardwired for lying on not just a grand but an epic, earth-shatteringly-bizarre-fucked-beyond-belief scale.

They didn't lie about catching syphilis.

[T200]

They didn't lie about catching syphilis.

Why not? Shaf did. EZ got over it.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Understanding how drugs work in real life by listening to addicts is like trying to understand the automobile from the perspective of car crash victims.

You're assuming, of coarse, that users are making, and are capable of making, an informed choice. Peer pressure, low self esteem, unknown addiction issues (AFAIK many of them are genetic), and the dishonesty of others are all factors that have to be considered.

Not at all. I'm assuming that addicts and addiction has fairly dominated the discussion. "Peer pressure, low self esteem, unknown genetic addiction issues and the dishonesty are pretty much THE ONLY factors being considered in the debate. They are really important ones...but we can't even seem to get those one right.

Here's where we fail miserably as a society. Anyone who survived into adulthood in this country knows that it's not as simple as take drugs, get addicted, life ruined. There is so much shame, bullshit and dishonesty around the use of drugs from alcohol to H that we can't even begin to have a rational discussion until we table the addiction talk for a spell. We need to start listening to the optometrist from Saginaw with a wife,2 kids and a thriving medical practice who likes to do a few lines on the weekend and occasionally will slam some Dilaudid and enjoy a little Downton Abbey. His experience is not unique.

[johno]

Back to PSH for a second - clearly, he was spiraling downward. I wonder if anyone close to him tried to intervene?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/06/nyreg ... .html?_r=0

[Turdacious]

Understanding how drugs work in real life by listening to addicts is like trying to understand the automobile from the perspective of car crash victims.

You're assuming, of coarse, that users are making, and are capable of making, an informed choice. Peer pressure, low self esteem, unknown addiction issues (AFAIK many of them are genetic), and the dishonesty of others are all factors that have to be considered.

Not at all. I'm assuming that addicts and addiction has fairly dominated the discussion. "Peer pressure, low self esteem, unknown genetic addiction issues and the dishonesty are pretty much THE ONLY factors being considered in the debate. They are really important ones...but we can't even seem to get those one right.

Here's where we fail miserably as a society. Anyone who survived into adulthood in this country knows that it's not as simple as take drugs, get addicted, life ruined. There is so much shame, bullshit and dishonesty around the use of drugs from alcohol to H that we can't even begin to have a rational discussion until we table the addiction talk for a spell. We need to start listening to the optometrist from Saginaw with a wife,2 kids and a thriving medical practice who likes to do a few lines on the weekend and occasionally will slam some Dilaudid and enjoy a little Downton Abbey. His experience is not unique.

I really don't disagree with much you're saying. However, the drug related experiences of upper middle class educated types tends to be very different than those from poorer backgrounds. Is part of this because of how drug laws are enforced? Yeah, but there's more to it than that.

[Dunn]

Coming from a family of addicts and kicking an addiction myself, I honestly don't know where I stand on this. Part of me really wants to say that it does come down to willpower and choice. I have seen some people REALLY fucked up on drugs for years and finally decide to get their shit straight. Fast forward 10 years and they are still clean. Most don't manage to make that decision. On the other hand, speaking from relapse myself, it erodes your willpower and it makes you illogical. After a time I don't see how you can make the right decision because your perspective is so fucking skewed that to do so would require a complete paradigm shift.

It's hard. I have lost more than a handful of close relatives to addiction and trying to talk to them is akin to attempting a rational discussion with a schizophrenic. Some folks argue that it isn't a choice but they are wrong, other wise there would be no recovering addicts. You CHOOSE to do the drug and you CHOOSE to get clean. Then, for the rest of your life, you CHOOSE to stay clean and stay the hell away from your kryptonite.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I really don't disagree with much you're saying. However, the drug related experiences of upper middle class educated types tends to be very different than those from poorer backgrounds. Is part of this because of how drug laws are enforced? Yeah, but there's more to it than that.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think the experience of drug users has a hell of a lot more to do with their underlying cultural reality than the effects of the drugs themselves.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

So I was at another meeting last night (yeah, I go to a lot of them), and afterwards a guy there told a PSH story.
Guy spoke at Perry St, a clubhouse in the Village, and PSH comes up afterwards to shake his hand and thank him. This is pretty much a customary thing to do. At the time, PSH has long term sobriety intact.
A few months later, guy is at his job tending bar in the village and PSH orders a Goose and a beer. Guy overhears PSH basically say out loud that he's a piece of shit. Talking about himself, not the bartender.
I think it's pretty hard for you normal people to understand how that works, but I get it.
Dunn, choice is a weird thing. I chose to drink, and I chose to drink often and way too much. Eventually, I couldn't make a choice. Once I started I couldn't choose to stop, and there were a lot of days I swore I wouldn't do it, and then I did. I still don't know why I stopped when I did. Without a doubt, today I have a choice. I think a big thing for a lot of people once they've been clean and/or sober for awhile is that they think now they can control it. Sometimes they think they can have fun for a night and then stop again. It usually doesn't work that way.
PSH isn't the first guy I've been in meetings with who drank again and died. Sadly, he won't be the last, either.

[Bob Wildes]

Coincidence or not I watched "I am Bill W." on Netflix this past weekend. Never heard of it before, but it appears that it was a made for TV movie, circa 1989. Didn't particularly like it, but it did seem to show a lot of addiction behaviour.

My question for some of you is do you feel that A.A. works and for those that do do you think it is the best way for most addicts?

I recall hearing about some woman in the late nineties that denounced A.A. and claimed that she could control her addiction(s) without total abstinence. Have no idea whatever became of her, but would have bet that she was heading for a fall.

[Shapecharge]

I don't know if this is the right time to ask or not but uhh does anyone have any extra syringes they're not using?

[The Ginger Beard Man]

Coincidence or not I watched "I am Bill W." on Netflix this past weekend. Never heard of it before, but it appears that it was a made for TV movie, circa 1989. Didn't particularly like it, but it did seem to show a lot of addiction behaviour.

My question for some of you is do you feel that A.A. works and for those that do do you think it is the best way for most addicts?

I recall hearing about some woman in the late nineties that denounced A.A. and claimed that she could control her addiction(s) without total abstinence. Have no idea whatever became of her, but would have bet that she was heading for a fall.

That woman started a program called Rational Recovery. It lasted until she killed a teenage girl in a DUI accident.
AA works for me. I've seen a hell of a lot of people come and go over the years, so clearly it isn't for everyone. But the success rate for rehab isn't too good either.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

Sorry, I'm mixing up my programs. Moderation Management. And she killed both a 12 yr old girl and her father.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I don't know if this is the right time to ask or not but uhh does anyone have any extra syringes they're not using?

gauge and size?

[Blaidd Drwg]

Tnx Dunn and GBM...

This is the discussion most people in this country don't have the balls to have.

[Dunn]

Tnx Dunn and GBM...

This is the discussion most people in this country don't have the balls to have.

De nada. I don't talk about it much but it's always there. The question that GBM brought is something I've often thought about.... Why did I get the gumption to break the cycle? Dunno. I've seen buddies OD in front of me and got fucked up a day later. I credit my own return from the brink to copious amounts of hallucinogenics and a dash of the occult, but that's a whole other discussion.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

Little known fact:
Bill W hung with Aldous Huxley and Timothy Leary and participated in experiments using LSD to cure addiction. Ordinary AA members told him to stop because a drug is a drug.

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

I'm also a recovering alcoholic. Got sober through a 30-day inpatient rehab and maintained since then (with two relapses) through AA. At this point I've been clean a little more than a year.

It's a hell of a thing. No one ever thinks they're going to become an addict, until they realize that they are. Many, many people can drink normally; that's why they call it drinking normally. Same with BD's guy who likes a drink and will take a line or some pills to feel like king for a night if offered. Then there are those of us who...can't do that. I have no idea what the difference is, if it's physical or psychological, whatever. What I know is that if I start drinking I have no idea what's going to happen after that.

And likewise, I have no idea what made me get sober when I did, when every other time I failed. Some people will say that their higher power intervened, and I have no doubt that some people do have a real "come to Jesus" moment, and that's great for them. I didn't have anything like that happen. The day after I last got drunk started a lot like the day before I last got drunk, I just didn't drink that night and haven't had a drink since. I still wanted to drink, I just didn't.

As for whether AA works: clearly it can. Some addicts get sober, stay sober and die sober. Others relapse, but get back in -- which I think still constitutes success. Others still relapse and die after long periods of sobriety (see PSH). I dunno. Addiction's a motherfucker, and I don't think there's any one thing that's going to work perfectly well for all people. I think some addicts are probably so sick that they're going to kill themselves no matter what.

Anyway. Interesting topic and this is somewhat rushed and off-joint since I need to leave the office. I might have more later.

[Koko, Beware]

This is a great discussion. I'm in GBM and Bud's club too. I guess for me the difference between before and after is the difference between not giving a fuck in a very, very bad way and not giving a fuck in the very best way for me (which is the whole serenity prayer). That is a really useful distinction for me and helps me get at a viable working definition for choice every day.

BD's line of thinking makes a lot of sense to me. Couching the topic in fear and shame doesn't seem very useful for whatever large % of the population is able to have a couple of pops/toots and even occasionally tie one on, and certainly not very practical since we aren't really speaking the same language. To me, the hypothetical doc in Saginaw (iterations of whom I know to exist in real life) is enacting a scenario so far beyond my comprehension that it might as well be in African tongue-clicking. The idea of having a couple of lines on a Sunday afternoon and then not emptying out my week's paycheck to meet the unblinking need in my head screaming "you can feel even better than how good you feel right now"...I mean, I just can't think that through to a rational, sane end. It always ends up in more until something stops working physically.

While "fear it and stay the fuck away from it because i think there's a good chance you can't handle it" might be how I choose to talk to my boys about it (or it might not; I've got some time to decide), that doesn't seem a very successful or reasonable way to handle it societally. (Although it is in keeping with where we seem to be headed in general.)

[The man in black]

I got to say this is very interesting. I have heard the whole, "Well, if your going to drink then at least don't drive and don't drink with stupid people." time and time again (at least indirectly). I have never heard the same logic applied to drugs and I really find the whole idea very interesting.

I realize comparing tobacco to heroin and cocaine is like talking about jerking off while everyone else is talking about fucking, but my whole rationale for having my first cigarette was because I knew all the bad shit that cigarettes did, and I figured if so many people were still willing to smoke then they must do some kind of good and I wanted to find out what that good was. Probably part of it too had to do with self esteem and fitting in. It is a whole lot of food for thought.

[Turdacious]

From what I've seen, pot is considered a gateway drug because most users of harder drugs did pot first. No mention of how likely people who did harder drugs would have been to do them if they hadn't tried da weed.

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

From what I've seen, pot is considered a gateway drug because most users of harder drugs did pot first. No mention of how likely people who did harder drugs would have been to do them if they hadn't tried da weed.

IMO I think the gateway drug is hanging out in places where you can score shit, or with people who'll give it to you. Once you've made that leap, you're about 30 seconds away from a YOLO!!! moment.

I hated pot. Smoked it maybe ten times total in my life. I tried other drugs because I wanted to try them.

[DARTH]

Beer and aspirin are the gateway drugs, IF we are going to blame one on another. I think Bud's Asshole sad it best though.

[Dunn]

From what I've seen, pot is considered a gateway drug because most users of harder drugs did pot first. No mention of how likely people who did harder drugs would have been to do them if they hadn't tried da weed.

IMO I think the gateway drug is hanging out in places where you can score shit, or with people who'll give it to you. Once you've made that leap, you're about 30 seconds away from a YOLO!!! moment.

I hated pot. Smoked it maybe ten times total in my life. I tried other drugs because I wanted to try them.

I love pot. It slows things down just enough and evens me out if taken 1-2x a week. Same reason I like downers so much but with far fewer consequences.

And I totally agree. I honestly feel that making weed illegal puts it in the gateway position simply by association. When booze was illegal I'm betting dimes to donuts that the same was true for it. Decriminalization of it allows one to not have to go to those scenes where you can get everything. Then again I know folks who tried weed, loved it, and said fuck all to trying anything else since it's not a secret that a lot of manufactured drugs are dangerous. I mean, I know where I can get meth but I have no desire to do it since it's pretty well known that it is a horrid substance.

[Blaidd Drwg]

I reject the concept of "gateway drug" . It is a rooted in basic misunderstanding. Pot is no more a gateway drug to coke than jerking off a gateway to premarital sex, then kinky sex, then the inevitable slide towards tranny whores. Rubbish...there are simply some people who jerk off too much or some such other diversion which captivates them on a psychological/chemical level. It's difficult to know outside of family history and individual psychology what is going to turn your crank.

The real gateway to drugs is curiosity but there is no door beyond which you are suddenly different. The construct of right drugs and wrong drugs is cultural not chemical..there simply some compounds that some people develop a profound affinity to (alchohol, nicotine and opiates) and others like Pot where 90% of people who sample can take it or leave it. I'll say the first thing I ingested that I liked so much I thought, "why would i ever want to be without this?" is Coffee and to this day after some extensive experimentation it's still coffee.