The Beginning of the End

[RottenFace]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... os-041812/

Any thoughts on this? I know I would hate to be the guy that busted his ass for years to get to IOC, only to go through with the first females included class. There are events there that will have to be completely changed. I would love to hear the opinion of some BTDT's.

[Sassenach]

*grabs popcorn*

[johno]

Is this a joke? I'd have never guessed that the Corps would be the first to surrender on this issue.

[RottenFace]

Not a joke. Verified with some phone calls and emails. Maybe someone at HQMC knows that the gender barrier is going away at some point in the near future, and that the big brains are trying to get out ahead of it.

[buckethead]

Maybe the food at IOC will improve

[Fat Cat]

let's rock

[Bobby]

What`s going on with the corps? This about women and you wrote in your log about fat and weak people dropping out of
a 3 mile run.

[The Crawdaddy]

Is this a joke? I'd have never guessed that the Corps would be the first to surrender on this issue.

I assume your first = first ground pounders.

[powerlifter54]

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/20 ... os-041812/

Any thoughts on this? I know I would hate to be the guy that busted his ass for years to get to IOC, only to go through with the first females included class. There are events there that will have to be completely changed. I would love to hear the opinion of some BTDT's.

This will not end well

Additionally, new functional fitness tests are being developed to help Marine Corps leaders determine how women and men perform in, and cope with, various combat tasks. The goal is to establish “gender-neutral” physical fitness standards. Details are scant, but the Marine Corps’ Training and Education Command is looking to purchase a variety of new equipment specifically for these tests, suggesting the tasks associated with them will closely mimic combat-essential duties such as operating and moving heavy weaponry, and carrying casualties from the battlefield.
The Marine Corps defines gender-neutral physical standards as being identical for men and women, rather than weighted — or “gender-normed” — like those applied in the service’s annual Physical Fitness Test. During the PFT, women can earn a minimum or maximum score with fewer repetitions and a slower run times than their male counterparts.

This suggests that women wanting to serve in ground combat units will be given the shot to do so only if they can keep pace with their male counterparts. Standards would likely evaluate Marines not as women and men, but simply as infantrymen, tank crewmen or artillerymen, for example.

[tough old man]

This suggests that women wanting to serve in ground combat units will be given the shot to do so only if they can keep pace with their male counterparts. Standards would likely evaluate Marines not as women and men, but simply as infantrymen, tank crewmen or artillerymen, for example.

Never happen

[johno]

I don't know how that will play out for future infantrymen (ahem, persons). But I know how it has played out in the Fire Service. I predict a very large % that qualify for Infantry will soon be injured and unable to continue in that MOS.

When I went through Army Airborne School in '83, at one point we had 7 of 8 females on medical profile. IIRC, one graduated with my class, and she was literally carried up Cardiac Hill on one of our slowass runs.

[the fearless freep]

Cardiac Hill! Some painfully painful good memories.

[Zombomatic]

I'm crossing my fingers really fucking hard that they get the VSP and early retirement stuff rolling, stat. Publish the goddamn MARADMIN already, HQ...I'm done.

[RottenFace]

There is no way that an individual, male or female, who can't hack it physically will be able to lead combat troops, Marines or Army. 2ndLooies already have enough to deal with in terms of eraning the respect of their Marines. If they weaken the standards, the Marines will know long before the first female platoon commander shows up to lead them.

Despite having an enormous amount of respect for female Marines and Officers, I can't see this working. IOC alone will have to be totally restructured if they don't want 90-95% attrition rates. At Marine OCS every summer, the female platoons start at around 70-90 in the beginning, and they graduate between 12-20. The female candidates do all the same events as the male candidates, including the hikes, with adjusted (slower) times. They still get beat up physically; lots of stress fractures, ankle breaks, etc. Same shit happens at TBS. In my platoon at TBS a female officer was recycled and put on a 6 month diet of heavy lifting, little running, and whole milk, because she was so tiny she couldn't pick up her pack and carry it. Unless the standard remains unchanged, I think the combat arms MOSes stand to be considerably weakened by adjusting the standard to allow females to get through school. As tough as IOC is, it isn't really that tough, and it pales in comparison to the physical demands of combat.

Right now the Marine Corps should be focusing on getting our troopies back into shape, bringing back the traditions that made us the institution that the American people want, and institutionalizing the many lessons we have learned over the past ten years of war. We are down-sizing, and already feeling the purse strings tightening. IMO, not a great time to come up with some new craziness.

Lots of dudes are really pissed.

[Bobby]

You would think that downsizing would mean higher standards.