The couch thread

[powerlifter54]

http://journal.crossfit.com/2009/02/cro ... urve-1.tpl

In this two part lecture, Coach Greg Glassman unifies fitness and health. This lecture is the first time we’ve published a revolutionary new component (a three-dimensional model) that has the potential to both redefine and unite the health and fitness fields forever.

Health can now be concisely and precisely defined as increased work capacity across broad time, modal, and age domains.

couch, you are a fucking asshole of the highest order. Fooling people into thinking that "work capacity" is equivalent to their "health" status. This woman, RIP, was in your Gaymes JUST LAST YEAR. You really should read more REAL science about just how much excessive exercise, particularly endurance exercise (like your precious @F has turned into), is suppressive to the immune system. At least DeVany understands that much.

Best wishes to her family.

i will be covering this in July a bit more but if you train "with High Intensity" all the time, defined as balls to the wall effort by poseurs and gurus, whether you are doing HIT, ME work, HIIT, or huge volume/distances, and you never do easy or medium workouts, the stress to the CNS, the soft tissue, and the ultimately the immune system is going to be Catastrophic.

This poor girl's death had nothing to do with @fit. But others have and will.

[T-L]

As of 8:56 PST this morning, the gaymes site was hacked. LOL.

[Grandpa's Spells]

As of 8:56 PST this morning, the gaymes site was hacked. LOL.

Link for those of us who wouldn't care to visit the CF games site before now?

[Mountebank]

As of 8:56 PST this morning, the gaymes site was hacked. LOL.

How do you know this? Link?

[T-L]

As of 8:56 PST this morning, the gaymes site was hacked. LOL.

How do you know this? Link?

Sorry folks, the hack has been cleared.

[the fearless freep]

Fooling people into thinking that "work capacity" is equivalent to their "health" status.

Purpose
To compare the contributions of fitness level and physical activity patterns to all-cause mortality.
Methods
Of 6213 men referred for exercise testing between 1987 and 2000, 842 underwent an assessment of adulthood activity patterns. The predictive power of exercise capacity and activity patterns, along with clinical and exercise test data, were assessed for all-cause mortality during a mean (±SD) follow-up of 5.5 ± 2 years.
Results
Expressing the data by age-adjusted quartiles, exercise capacity was a stronger predictor of mortality than was activity pattern (hazard ratio [HR] = 0.56; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 0.38 to 0.83; P < 0.001). In a multivariate analysis that considered clinical characteristics, risk factors, exercise test data, and activity patterns, exercise capacity (HR per quartile = 0.62; CI: 0.47 to 0.82; P < 0.001) and energy expenditure from adulthood recreational activity (HR per quartile = 0.72; 95% CI: 0.58 to 0.89; P = 0.002) were the only significant predictors of mortality; these two variables were stronger predictors than established risk factors such as smoking, hypertension, obesity, and diabetes. Age-adjusted mortality decreased per quartile increase in exercise capacity (HR for very low capacity = 1.0; HR for low = 0.59; HR for moderate = 0.46; HR for high = 0.28; P < 0.001) and physical activity (HR for very low activity = 1.0; HR for low = 0.63; HR for moderate = 0.42; HR for high = 0.38; P < 0.001). A 1000-kcal/wk increase in activity was approximately similar to a 1 metabolic equivalent increase in fitness; both conferred a mortality benefit of 20%.
Conclusion
Exercise capacity determined from exercise testing and energy expenditure from weekly activity outperform other clinical and exercise test variables in predicting all-cause mortality. The American Journal of Medicine, volume 117, December 2004

see also: The New England Journal of Medicine, volume 346, no. 11, March 2004. It reports pretty much the same thing.

If "work capacity" = "exercise capacity", and "health" = "predictor of all-cause mortality", then your anger is misdirected. However, I know what you were trying to say:

...if you train "with High Intensity" all the time, defined as balls to the wall effort by poseurs and gurus, whether you are doing HIT, ME work, HIIT, or huge volume/distances, and you never do easy or medium workouts, the stress to the CNS, the soft tissue, and the ultimately the immune system is going to be Catastrophic.

[The Real Rant]

Well, I sure look like a dick now.

Now? We established this long ago.

[The Real Rant]

I can't believe some of the crap I have read in the last few pages. This thread has hit a new low. Making fun of the dead? Busting balls on the sick? You people have no class. If there was ever a time to close this thread it would be now.

[The Real Rant]

I don't understand why narcisistic train wreck and potential Gaymes Champion Amanda Miller doesn't get more attention in this thread.

http://amandaredmiller.blogspot.com/

I don't quite know why I'm happy today but maybe because I started my study drug yesterday and I have high hopes for it making me feel better for awhile at least. I found out my belly was swelling because my liver is failing. It's quite painful when the doctors don't want to do anything for it. I just lay in bed all the time. I'm just waiting until these meds kick in so it helps. Decided to post up some pictures on what it looks like. Most people just say "hey Amanda now you look like me" but for those of you that know me.......this is about double in size and trust me it is. It's an extra 8 lbs and it hurts. Well mom here is the closest you'll get to me being pregnant...hehe. That's what I would look like, no thanks.

http://www.eatmoveimprove.com/2009/12/a ... yometrics/

My doctor reassured me that this drug is only a temporary fix and it's only a matter of time before it doesn't work anymore. I talked with my father for awhile yesterday and my doctor and I think I'm going to start the process to get myself medically retired. I still have to talk to a few people about benefits side to see if it's the absolute best option but overall I think it will be the decision. I haven't told my chain of command yet and I'm not until I make my final decision, so those of you that read this and know my chain of command do not open your mouth because this is not final yet, thank you. I have to say that because it seems I've already had a problem with people going behind my back and doing things that I don't approve of because you didn't talk to me first. If I do decide this, my doc says it can take 6 months so I'll still be here for awhile. It's just kind of hard to justify staying away from family to be at work when I started dying last week. I know my work is like family but they can't fully wrap their head around what's going on. I mean, still expecting me to be at work? Really?! I'm having to take leave just because I can't be there because of what I'm going through.
I know I'm blabbing, sorry, just wanted to give a good update. I don't go back to UCLA until next Sun. I get readmitted then for another 3 1/2 days and then off to hopefully a normal life:)

Poor kid. WGM sickens me.

[Holland Oates]

I can't believe some of the crap I have read in the last few pages. This thread has hit a new low. Making fun of the dead? Busting balls on the sick? You people have no class. If there was ever a time to close this thread it would be now.

No one is making fun or busting her balls no matter how dead she may be. Well except Marco. WGM made his post before he knew she was dead and apologized.

I just don't give a fuck.

I can't explain why. I sympathized with the woman's family that died of the aortic aneurysm but I just got nothing with this chick.

Of course I wouldn't expect the random @fitter to give a fuck if I kicked off either.

Of course I would like to know how long she was sick and how long she knew she was sick and continued to train like a madwoman every day doing her WODs.

[Sofa King]

Obviously, couch has been in liver failure for some time.

I feel you on this issue, Ed.

[The Real Rant]

I can't believe some of the crap I have read in the last few pages. This thread has hit a new low. Making fun of the dead? Busting balls on the sick? You people have no class. If there was ever a time to close this thread it would be now.

No one is making fun or busting her balls no matter how dead she may be. Well except Marco. WGM made his post before he knew she was dead and apologized.

I just don't give a fuck.

I can't explain why. I sympathized with the woman's family that died of the aortic aneurysm but I just got nothing with this chick.

Of course I wouldn't expect the random @fitter to give a fuck if I kicked off either.

Of course I would like to know how long she was sick and how long she knew she was sick and continued to train like a madwoman every day doing her WODs.

Marco is a piece of garbage and will never be otherwise.

What part of "dying" did WGM not understand within the paragraphs he posted and commented on about her being an attention whore?

No one has to give a fuck but people should STFU at the very least. This surpasses former IGX lows like all the anti-semitic crap of Fatty, Norm and Kraj all rolled into one.

There is edgey and then there's just downright low class and creepy.

WGM I would strongly recommend you suspend posting pics of anymore @fit girls lest you step into the dog shit again. Serioulsy.

[nafod]

Health can now be concisely and precisely defined as increased work capacity across broad time, modal, and age domains.

couch, you are a fucking asshole of the highest order. Fooling people into thinking that "work capacity" is equivalent to their "health" status. This woman, RIP, was in your Gaymes JUST LAST YEAR. You really should read more REAL science about just how much excessive exercise, particularly endurance exercise (like your precious @F has turned into), is suppressive to the immune system. At least DeVany understands that much.

Before Freep posted, I was going to. I think coach's measure of health is as good as any out there, and far better than most. Ultimately that's what we are, engines of work. Unhealthy people can't do stuff, healthy people can. Separate question is whether xfit is the best path to that measure of health. Probably not ideal by doing the WOD is my take.

This young lady, if you read her blog, essentially had cancer during the xfit games a year ago and didn't know it. While undergoing treatment she continued to work her ass off and fight to maintain a normal life. Kudos to here for her fight, and for posting a blog on it. I'll remember her.

[Yes I Have Balls]

Boo fucking Hoo Lizbeth:

Or, you could believe the totally wacky theory that the county denied the permit for Aromas and we had to scramble to find a venue and sign a contract. And that we're a hard-working staff of good people who are managing a fitness juggernaut and some of us are actually in daily contact with hundreds of affiliates and CrossFitters. That we work really long hours and give every ounce of our souls to the advancement of a movement that is affecting untold numbers of people in a incredibly positive way and changing their lives -- and the lives of those around them -- for the better. And that most of us stay off the message boards because we're too damn busy. And that it's kind of insane that people on our own message boards feel free to make all kinds of suppositions and accusations without evidence, insight, or knowledge about the situations at hand.

[Mountebank]

Long-term intense exercise has been linked to higher risk of melanoma, at least in marathoners and ultra runners (intensity of training being key here). Theory being that EDIT:

...it's thought that tissue damage occurring during intense, long-term exertion may prompt the release of certain proteins that render the immune system less able to fight off skin cancer. (Patients given immunosuppressive drugs after transplants have an increased risk of the disease.) Ambros-Rudolph says her team will look at the link between training intensity and possible immunosuppression.

A quick PubMed search found two studies in the last several years.

The ability to do or not do stuff, as a measure of health, sure. Using thrusters and ground flops + tiny jump (I believe they call them "burpees" ) for time as the way to measure it, not at all.

[syaigh]

Anyone have anything more recent than this? (Yes, I looked for articles that cited it, etc. My Pubmed abilities are diminished by lack of access to medical library.)

Sports Med. 1991 Jul;12(1):32-65.
Overtraining in athletes. An update.

Fry RW, Morton AR, Keast D.

Department of Human Movement and Recreation Studies, University of Western Australia, Perth.
Abstract

Overtraining appears to be caused by too much high intensity training and/or too little regeneration (recovery) time often combined with other training and nontraining stressors. There are a multitude of symptoms of overtraining, the expression of which vary depending upon the athlete's physical and physiological makeup, type of exercise undertaken and other factors. The aetiology of overtraining may therefore be different in different people suggesting the need to be aware of a wide variety of parameters as markers of overtraining. At present there is no one single diagnostic test that can define overtraining. The recognition of overtraining requires the identification of stress indicators which do not return to baseline following a period of regeneration. Possible indicators include an imbalance of the neuroendocrine system, suppression of the immune system, indicators of muscle damage, depressed muscle glycogen reserves, deteriorating aerobic, ventilatory and cardiac efficiency, a depressed psychological profile, and poor performance in sport specific tests, e.g. time trials. Screening for changes in parameters indicative of overtraining needs to be a routine component of the training programme and must be incorporated into the programme in such a way that the short term fatigue associated with overload training is not confused with the chronic fatigue characteristic of overtraining. An in-depth knowledge of periodisation of training theory may be necessary to promote optimal performance improvements, prevent overtraining, and develop a system for incorporating a screening system into the training programme. Screening for overtraining and performance improvements must occur at the culmination of regeneration periods.

And Rant, you're an asshole for reposting something you claim to find so offensive. Grow up. You do know how Google works, don't you?

[Spider Monkey]

Long-term intense exercise has been linked to higher risk of melanoma, at least in marathoners and ultra runners (intensity of training being key here). Theory being that EDIT:

...it's thought that tissue damage occurring during intense, long-term exertion may prompt the release of certain proteins that render the immune system less able to fight off skin cancer. (Patients given immunosuppressive drugs after transplants have an increased risk of the disease.) Ambros-Rudolph says her team will look at the link between training intensity and possible immunosuppression.

A quick PubMed search found two studies in the last several years.

The ability to do or not do stuff, as a measure of health, sure. Using thrusters and ground flops + tiny jump (I believe they call them "burpees" ) for time as the way to measure it, not at all.

Did those studies control for couch potatoes who spent a lot of time in the sun? Or for skin types? Gingers are at a much higher risk for melanomas. Gave birth to 2 of them and spent a fortune in sun screen over the years.
An ultra-marathoner in the sun is still better off than someone who sits in chair all day eating crap.
And Krickey! We're all gonna die!

[WildGorillaMan]

WGM I would strongly recommend you suspend posting pics of anymore @fit girls lest you step into the dog shit again. Serioulsy.

To the contrary, this Friday's installment will be a celebration of life and an affirmation of andro broads. Like one of @fit's Hero workouts, but with more class.

[The Real Rant]

WGM I would strongly recommend you suspend posting pics of anymore @fit girls lest you step into the dog shit again. Serioulsy.

To the contrary, this Friday's installment will be a celebration of life and an affirmation of andro broads. Like one of @fit's Hero workouts, but with more class.

You absolutely disgust me with your lack of shame.

[Yes I Have Balls]

WGM I would strongly recommend you suspend posting pics of anymore @fit girls lest you step into the dog shit again. Serioulsy.

To the contrary, this Friday's installment will be a celebration of life and an affirmation of andro broads. Like one of @fit's Hero workouts, but with more class.

.... more class and more outie belly buttons.

[Holland Oates]

WGM I would strongly recommend you suspend posting pics of anymore @fit girls lest you step into the dog shit again. Serioulsy.

To the contrary, this Friday's installment will be a celebration of life and an affirmation of andro broads. Like one of @fit's Hero workouts, but with more class.

You are a hero.

I believe I will name a personal WOD after you.

[Mountebank]

Noting two things. "Regular" exercise is related to a decrease in melanoma risk.
Melanoma risk in relation to height, weight, and exercise (United States).

In addition, we found that men and women exercising five to seven days per week were at a decreased risk of melanoma (OR = 0.7, CI = 0.5-1.0).

Whereas in long-distance runners, higher intensities increased melanoma risk.
Malignant melanoma in marathon runners.

Although control subjects exhibited higher sun sensitivity and more common melanocytic nevi, marathon runners presented with more atypical melanocytic nevi, solar lentigines, and lesions suggestive of nonmelanoma skin cancer. These findings correlated with increasing training intensity.

Melanoma markers in marathon runners: increase with sun exposure and physical strain.

Independent of their mean weekly running time, runners with higher heart rates while training, higher training velocities and higher physical strain indexes showed more nevi on the shoulder than the other runners (p = 0.029, 0.046, 0.038, respectively).

There would seem to be a breaking point of intensity. My guess is that competing every day at 100% effort with people egging someone on might be enough to break the barrier.

[Jag Panzer]

Anyone have anything more recent than this? (Yes, I looked for articles that cited it, etc. My Pubmed abilities are diminished by lack of access to medical library.)

What are you looking for in particular? Research into overtraining?

I've got more PDFs on that topic than most kids have pirated music, most of it fairly recent stuff. Hormone responses, neuromuscular responses, cytokines, neurological shifts in the brain, what you after?

[syaigh]

Anyone have anything more recent than this? (Yes, I looked for articles that cited it, etc. My Pubmed abilities are diminished by lack of access to medical library.)

What are you looking for in particular? Research into overtraining?

I've got more PDFs on that topic than most kids have pirated music, most of it fairly recent stuff. Hormone responses, neuromuscular responses, cytokines, neurological shifts in the brain, what you after?

All of it, please.

Well, let me scale it down a bit.

Specifically, I've been trying to look for data to support the limited use of high intensity training. I've read a bunch of Seiler's work and I have a lot of PDF's supporting high intensity training in limited amounts. Most of the articles on high intensity training that I've found are either talking about athletes or senior citizens. I want to have the data to back up the many assertions I've read (by Seiler, for one) recommending limiting the number of high intensity training sessions to no more than twice per week or in certain mesocycles.

Additionally, most articles I've found on overtraining associate it with chronic fatigue. I am more interested in the CNS fatigue, hormonal response and overuse syndrome.

So, physiological and physical damage of long-term high intensity, high frequency training. Is there a threshold for repetitions, duration, etc.

Thank you for any leads or articles you can share, I really appreciate it.

[dead man walking]

for evidence all you need are examples of the training of truly competitive athletes. they aren't high intensity all the time. i wonder why? could it be because only dumbfucks train that way?

by the way, show us your tits.