The educational industrial complex.

[Batboy2/75]

Funny, no one ever talks about dumb college students and predatory colleges/universities.


College Graduates that can't read fine print and or believed their College counselor.

Plus, unlike a bank loan, you owe Uncle Sam the money. Good luck with indentured servitude!

[bigpeach]

I know a chick in Mpls that took out $43k of loans for a 2-year program in "office administration." She basically, via loans, paid the school the annual salary of an entry-level secretary for 2 years so that she could become an entry-level secretary, in 2 years.

[WildGorillaMan]

Mrs Gorilla worked for years in admissions and career and placement counseling.

The basic rules at every school is "Bums In Seats" and "Cash Rules Everything Around Me." No students = no tuition = no school.

[WildGorillaMan]

I know a chick in Mpls that took out $43k of loans for a 2-year program in "office administration." She basically, via loans, paid the school the annual salary of an entry-level secretary for 2 years so that she could become an entry-level secretary, in 2 years.

That's sublime.

[kreator]

In a couple weeks I will have graduated two years ago. I can't believe it flew by this quick.

I went to one of the most expensive private liberal arts colleges in the country. Except I had a generous scholarship, majored in something that matters (compsci/math) ,didn't sip alcohol until I graduated, and I worked hard to make sure I got good grades and was actually learning.

As a result I was employed a week after graduation. Ten days ago, I sent out a single resume to a major NYC media outlet. I blew away the interviews, and not only was I offered the position, but my current workplace has offered me a matching salary and 2 alternative positions to stay. 1 resume -> 3 offers.

Yeah I'm bragging (I had a good week, what can I say), but I have a point.

If you go to a school that you can't afford, party hardy, and major in something irrelevant, you're probably going to have a hard time finding a job. And you're going to be in debt. That's your own fault.

College is only a waste if you let it be a waste. For me, it was a valuable experience and while I did not enjoy it, I am much happier off now that I went through it. I'm well above a lot of my peers now who wasted their time and money while in college. I learned quite a bit and while it was expensive, I could not have learned what I did in the same 4 years if I just went to work.

The schools that are allowing these kids to take out these loans and attend their schools ought to be ashamed of themselves because they're not giving them a realistic view of what's going to happen to them.
And all those people that say "you only go through college once, enjoy it" - truthfully I believe they are contributing to the problem.

[Pinky]

Atta boy, Kreator! (Other than not drinking.)

[Pinky]

Part of the problem is that the government's student loan program doesn't base interest rates on the risk of default. A loan for a gender studies degree should be more expensive and harder to get than a loan for an engineering degree. This is what any bank in their right mind would do if they could, it would push students toward majors that might help them earn a living, and it would reduce the number of people borrowing piles of money to end up serving coffee.

But the universities don't want that. The tuition dollars from a current and future waiter are just as good as tuition dollars from a future software engineer.

[nafod]

majored in something that matters (compsci/math)

Most excellent. With your burgeoning wallet taking the heat off, now you are ready for an education.

http://archive.org/details/harvardclassics

[kreator]

majored in something that matters (compsci/math)

Most excellent. With your burgeoning wallet taking the heat off, now you are ready for an education.

http://archive.org/details/harvardclassics

Oh...
did I mention I can't read?

[Protobuilder]

Mrs Gorilla worked for years in admissions and career and placement counseling.

The basic rules at every school is "Bums In Seats" and "Cash Rules Everything Around Me." No students = no tuition = no school.

Five or six years ago I could look around the room in the EMBA programme I teach in and see the 15% of the students who were there for no other reason than to pay my salary and keep the electricity on. This past semester, it was closer to 45% and the best programme I know of decided not to run a cohort unless they had enough.....wait for it....qualified applicants.

[Turdacious]

Funny, no one ever talks about dumb college students and predatory colleges/universities.


College Graduates that can't read fine print and or believed their College counselor.

Plus, unlike a bank loan, you owe Uncle Sam the money good. Good luck with indentured servitude!

Too bad there isn't some other option. It would be nice if you could do some service to your country for a few years and get your college paid for when you're done.

[I'd Hit It]

Too bad there isn't some other option. It would be nice if you could do some service to your country for a few years and get your college paid for when you're done.

I have found out from not a few people who went this route that it's hardly that easy, and now they're quite pissed about it.

The problem is the bachelor's is the new high school diploma. Many, if not most of the jobs that require a bachelor's need nothing more than a diploma and a couple weeks of on-the-job training, or a year or two of vocational at the most. And most students exiting college end up going through the on-the-job training anyway. If you need to be an engineer, a doctor, the many years of education makes sense. But secretaries, sales, lower management positions? It's ridiculous.

[vern]

It's been posted before...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxqWDsbjAzQ[/youtube]

[Fat Cat]

Lotta truth on this thread but have you guys ever tried to talk to people about how wasteful colleges, and schools in general, are? It's like farting in an elevator. It's nearly verboten to question the value of formal educational hoops.

[Pinky]

Much of what university administrators do serves no purpose other than keeping university administrators employed.

[Thatcher II]

I am much happier off...

Freudian slip much?

[Shafpocalypse Now]

The problem is the bachelor's is the new high school diploma. Many, if not most of the jobs that require a bachelor's need nothing more than a diploma and a couple weeks of on-the-job training, or a year or two of vocational at the most. And most students exiting college end up going through the on-the-job training anyway. If you need to be an engineer, a doctor, the many years of education makes sense. But secretaries, sales, lower management positions? It's ridiculous.

This is ridiculous but so true.

Couple this with the disappearance of local trade schools, and no wonder people get fucked. You can't find any plumbing, building trade, etc schools around here at all.

[WildGorillaMan]

This is ridiculous but so true.

Couple this with the disappearance of local trade schools, and no wonder people get fucked. You can't find any plumbing, building trade, etc schools around here at all.

Here, due in no small part to the oil & gas industry, the trade schools have been recruiting hard for the past five years. Even now the trades still face a labor shortage. Too many kids think being a welder, gasfitter, etc is beneath them somehow.

[Pinky]

The problem is the bachelor's is the new high school diploma. Many, if not most of the jobs that require a bachelor's need nothing more than a diploma and a couple weeks of on-the-job training, or a year or two of vocational at the most. And most students exiting college end up going through the on-the-job training anyway. If you need to be an engineer, a doctor, the many years of education makes sense. But secretaries, sales, lower management positions? It's ridiculous.

This is ridiculous but so true.

Yeah! My great-gran' pappy couldn't even read and he had a good job.

Fuck this progress shit making us have to learn things!

[kreator]

Too bad there isn't some other option. It would be nice if you could do some service to your country for a few years and get your college paid for when you're done.

I have found out from not a few people who went this route that it's hardly that easy, and now they're quite pissed about it.

The problem is the bachelor's is the new high school diploma. Many, if not most of the jobs that require a bachelor's need nothing more than a diploma and a couple weeks of on-the-job training, or a year or two of vocational at the most. And most students exiting college end up going through the on-the-job training anyway. If you need to be an engineer, a doctor, the many years of education makes sense. But secretaries, sales, lower management positions? It's ridiculous.

Truth.
In my industry (advertising) only a handful of people have anything more than a bachelor's. A few have MBAs and a couple with Masters/PhDs in statistics but the vast majority of higher ups do not.

I am much happier off...

Freudian slip much?

No? Is "better off" more syntactically correct or something?

I am much happier off...

Freudian slip much?

No? Is "better off" more syntactically correct or something?

[WildGorillaMan]

Fuck this progress shit making us have to learn things!

For the most part, and with the obvious exceptions, post-secondary education has nothing to do with learning things and more to do with getting a piece of paper that allegedly entitles you to certain types of job. Actually learning something is your own responsibility.

[buckethead]

[WildGorillaMan]

.

[WildGorillaMan]

.

[Grandpa's Spells]

Fuck this progress shit making us have to learn things!

For the most part, and with the obvious exceptions, post-secondary education has nothing to do with learning things and more to do with getting a piece of paper that allegedly entitles you to certain types of job. Actually learning something is your own responsibility.

There's a strong correlation between de-prioritizing formal education and sucking at life. Except for the people who are at the far right side of the bell curve when it comes to career self-direction, the vast majority of people would be better off having more schooling than less.

That doesn't mean *any* education is OK, which seems to be what some people are objecting to. I remember watching some "news" show where a woman with an "Ivy league education" was dumpster diving and working in a coffee shop, and this was proof of how bad the job market was. The fact that she had a women's study degree from Brown was thrown in towards the end as an afterthought.