The AR-15

[Batboy2/75]

Some of you dudes need to man up. If you voted, or even if you didn't vote. tell us why you voted that way. If you prefer a partuclar round tell us why.

This isn't a fucking gallup poll. Share what you know and or think. Give us some detail. There is no right or wrong answer when it comes to guns. The gun you you like, feel comfortable with and will practice with is the gun for you.

[tough old man]

Ever used an Israeli Galil? I thought that was going to be the gold standard once upon a time.

[SAR]

I also do have the AK a saiga I converted. But I gotta say I really feel most comfortable with an open site lever

[Batboy2/75]

Ever used an Israeli Galil? I thought that was going to be the gold standard once upon a time.

I once helped a group of friends reweld a chopped receiver kit and reheat treat the reciver. Nice rifles, but like all combloc inspired designs, they just not optic friendly. At least conpared to the M-4 a new pattern rifles.

The Galil version to own is the small number of 7.62 x 51 Galils they Isreali made, that got imported as part kits and then rebuilt into reifles; or the few Goloni version I have seen.

[Batboy2/75]

I also do have the AK a saiga I converted. But I gotta say I really feel most comfortable with an open site lever

I forgot about the Saiga you converted.

[Bobby]

I like the 5.56 for the light weight and prefer the penetrating power and sheer destructiveness of the 7.62.A couple of years ago I saw a machine gun team demolish a brick wall with the 7.62.Quite impressive.But one of my all time favorites must be the old Carl Gustaf (kpist 45) 9mm sub machine gun.Light,portable and easy to clean!

[Hymen Asshole]

Bat, like your signature image I'll stick to the AK47, once your out of ammo you can club fuckers to death with it

[Master_Blaster]

Now we're talking weapons preferences? Hmm..

Apocalypse scenario? A Springfield Armory, Model MA9222, M1A/M14 Loaded, American walnut buttstock. Trijicon ACOG.

[DARTH]

Ever used an Israeli Galil? I thought that was going to be the gold standard once upon a time.

Maybe 60 rounds through one in 91-92? 5.56version

Liked it, the former Military all nutted themselves over it. Talked about it being the Hebrew AK and that you could get it in 7.62 for killing Palistinians and Syrians. Was there a 308?

You mentioned Para FN-FAL.

I never fired the Para but I like FALs and want one like Gillian Anderson's pussy, but I can probably actually have an FAL, just want a good one.

[DARTH]

Ever used an Israeli Galil? I thought that was going to be the gold standard once upon a time.

er of 7.62 x 51 Galils they Isreali made, that got imported as part kits and then rebuilt into reifles; or the few Goloni version I have seen.

Missed this! answered that.

[DARTH]

Bats, how important is optics to you?

I know they have changed the game in a lot of ways but some guns I just would not care all that much as I have shot way more with sights than optics, other than scopes on .22s.

I like AKs just dandy without optics but do you feel that advantage is that big with an optical sight?

[DPR]

How far does a civilian need to shoot? An AK may not be as accurate as an AR, but does it does have better penetration.

[TerryB]

now this thread is interesting

[DARTH]

How far does a civilian need to shoot? An AK may not be as accurate as an AR, but does it does have better penetration.

Not much in most civilian situations in suburban and urban America an 870 pump shotgun can't handle, either.

AR vs AK, there are things I like about both of them, but I sold my AR because I don’t need the hassles at this point in my life.

It was a Bushmaster with a short H-Barrel with no flash suppressor (so that was going to have to change) and it was a cunt about ammo. When I'm making more money I want a full size AR with a rail on the carrying handle.

There will be plenty of AR's on the ground when the time comes when I get bored of using a shotgun. ;-)

Probably going to get a Ruger Mini-14, grew up with that and it's a very faithful gun. I mean its a Garrand design, might not be as ergonomic as an AR but there are ways of making mag changes pretty smooth (you turn it over when you feed it.)

Real cool with a scout scope set up on them.

[DPR]

I agree. And the over penetration of a rifle round is a concern in a suburban area.

[DARTH]

I agree. And the over penetration of a rifle round is a concern in a suburban area.

It is in my house, period.

I got rid of an SKS in my 20's because I lived in an apartment with real thin walls and I dredded it going through some asshole, like it would at short range and going through that 3,5/8 25ga mtl stud + 2 sheets of 1/2 drywall and hitting the people next door or my room mates.

Handguns and shotguns for most home threats, in the burbs for sure.

But we're on AR's and Bats gave a lot of good stuff as did some others.

[Texas Red]

Not much in most civilian situations in suburban and urban America an 870 pump shotgun can't handle, either.

That's exactly what I keep under my bed. Here in suburbia, over-penetration (as others have cited) is why the AR is my second choice, barring some type of societal collapse.

As for the AK... I've never been able to get behind it, though I respect Kalashnikov's genius in crafting the most lethal tool of the past ~60 years. I've fired it at the range and used it when hunting hogs, but I was always turned off by its lackluster accuracy.

Maybe my resistance is due to vestigial Cold War prejudice (frequent viewings of Red Dawn in my youth). If I were an ambitious African warlord arming child soldiers for inter-tribal genocide, an AK certainly beats machetes; however, I'm a free Western man, and the AR is the closest thing you can get to a Corinthian helmet and bronze cuirass nowadays.

[Batboy2/75]

How far does a civilian need to shoot? An AK may not be as accurate as an AR, but does it does have better penetration.

You're mixing up your ballistics terms. 7.62 x39 is a 120+ gr bullet traveling a lot slower than 5.56 round. A 5.56 round will actually penetrate farther than 7.62 x 39 and at any distance.

What you are referring to is energy delivered into the target. Between 0 and 200 meters it delivers a lot if energy. After 200 meters, this falls off significantly with 7.62 x 39.

You are also not taking into consideration bullet design. Most com bloc 7.62 x 39 drills holes in the victim. The round does not expand or cause tissue damage. The exception is Yugo m67 7.62 x 39 rounds, Russian Golden Tiger, some Chinese lead core rounds (that are not sold in the USA anymore) and commercial western 7.62 hunting and HP rounds.

I keep a stash of Hornady SST, Yugo M67, and Chinese lead core rounds for my AKs and Sig 556r.

Even then, a properly designed 5.56 round will dump all of it's energy into the soft tissue as it explodes and disintegrates; causing horrific wound channel, stretch cavity and internal bleeding.

Read the link to the ballistic data I posted; everything you need for bullet selection.

[Batboy2/75]

Bats, how important is optics to you?

I know they have changed the game in a lot of ways but some guns I just would not care all that much as I have shot way more with sights than optics, other than scopes on .22s.

I like AKs just dandy without optics but do you feel that advantage is that big with an optical sight?

1X red dot is just plain faster for target acquisition. Plus, I have Iron sights on all if my rifles, except for a couple if bolt guns. Mostly for back up, but I do have several rifles I prefer to run with irons.

However, function dictates form. I like to have optics for a variety of situations. I have a selection of 1X red dots, 1x4 illuminated scopes, a 1x6 illuminated scope and various power scopes that I routinely swap on and off rifles.

Ninety percent of people are way over scoped (way to much magnification), rely upon scopes to much, and wrongly ape what they see the military and or competitive 3 gun shooters using. Not to mention the habit of buying expensive and heavy shit. When there are cheaper alternatives.

I particularly dislike the trends in 3 gun. All sorts of shit in competitive shooting that will win you a trophy, but get you killed on the battle field.

To answer your question directly Darth; yes a red dot will make difference, but you can live with out it. The real question is how to properly mount a red dot on an AK. Later on I'll post some options I like.

[milosz]

I'm ordering a Tavor this week. Because toys.

[Batboy2/75]

Not much in most civilian situations in suburban and urban America an 870 pump shotgun can't handle, either.

That's exactly what I keep under my bed. Here in suburbia, over-penetration (as others have cited) is why the AR is my second choice, barring some type of societal collapse.

As for the AK... I've never been able to get behind it, though I respect Kalashnikov's genius in crafting the most lethal tool of the past ~60 years. I've fired it at the range and used it when hunting hogs, but I was always turned off by its lackluster accuracy.

Maybe my resistance is due to vestigial Cold War prejudice (frequent viewings of Red Dawn in my youth). If I were an ambitious African warlord arming child soldiers for inter-tribal genocide, an AK certainly beats machetes; however, I'm a free Western man, and the AR is the closest thing you can get to a Corinthian helmet and bronze cuirass nowadays.

The lack luster accuracy of the AK is a direct result of the shit rounds that most people put through it. Not to mention the Aks iron sight are battle sights, not hunting sights.

[Texas Red]

The lack luster accuracy of the AK is a direct result of the shit rounds that most people put through it. Not to mention the Aks iron sight are battle sights, not hunting sights.

I don't believe the AK-47 is inaccurate in essence, just relative to the AR, which is what I grew up shooting (after .22's, lever-action saddle guns, etc.). Going from that to the AK-47 felt like a distinct downgrade. To be fair, I can't speak for the quality of the cartridges I used (these were mainly weapons paraded by my redneck relatives). My uncle once cracked the upper receiver on an AR with a hot round, so he may have warped my perspective.

I'll try to keep an open mind about the AK, as I've always been hard on the Russkies (child of the 80's). You recommend any ammo in particular?

[Batboy2/75]

The lack luster accuracy of the AK is a direct result of the shit rounds that most people put through it. Not to mention the Aks iron sight are battle sights, not hunting sights.

I don't believe the AK-47 is inaccurate in essence, just relative to the AR, which is what I grew up shooting (after .22's, lever-action saddle guns, etc.). Going from that to the AK-47 felt like a distinct downgrade. To be fair, I can't speak for the quality of the cartridges I used (these were mainly weapons paraded by my redneck relatives). My uncle once cracked the upper receiver on an AR with a hot round, so he may have warped my perspective.

I'll try to keep an open mind about the AK, as I've always been hard on the Russkies (child of the 80's). You recommend any ammo in particular?

In order of quality

Lapua
Hornady
Winchester SP
Yugo M67

[Texas Red]

In order of quality

Lapua
Hornady
Winchester SP
Yugo M67

Excellent. Now I'm looking forward to the Thanksgiving shoot-a-thon more than ever.

[Batboy2/75]

In order of quality

Lapua
Hornady
Winchester SP
Yugo M67

Excellent. Now I'm looking forward to the Thanksgiving shoot-a-thon more than ever.

Be warned. All are expensive.