IGX

Rant wrote:

Shapecharge wrote:Time to get back on the clock shitstains...check this shit out:

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/index.ph ... emid=10029

LOL! The article got pulled.

Where are the Google masters who can cache that shit here!

hahahahha. Fucking knuckle under pussies!

Isn't that some bullshit? The Institute was planning a piece based on that article.

Here ya go chumps:

The Case Against CrossFit

A closer look at this controversial workout program

by Charles Poliquin

"The best program is the one you're not using," is one of my favorite axioms. I say this because I've never believed that there is one perfect workout system. The high-intensity training methods of the late Arthur Jones work...for a time. Strongman training works...for at time. And weightlifting and powerlifting methods work...for a time. Variety, whether it be correcting a lack of it or too much of it, is one of the keys to making continual progress with your training and achieving your goals. And that brings up the topic of CrossFit, Inc. TM.
If you Google the words "Poliquin" and "CrossFit," you'll find that there has been a considerable amount of discussion about my recent comments on another website about this method of training. Although my intent was to make a few general comments about what I thought of this method of training - and throw in a few wisecracks in the process - it's obvious that a more in-depth discussion about CrossFit is in order. So, here it is.

What is CrossFit?
Founded by Greg Glassman nearly three decades ago, CrossFit is a militaristic type of workout that uses a variety of training methods, including gymnastics and Olympic lifting, using short rest intervals. CrossFit is very popular with the military, police forces and mixed martial artists. CrossFit offers certifications, and graduates can pay a fee to become an affiliate. And because the equipment used is relatively inexpensive, it's relatively easy to open a CrossFit gym.

Often with CrossFit you won't perform the same workout twice, and because CrossFit often facetiously uses feminine names to describe their workouts, your training schedule might look like this: Monday, "Fran"; Wednesday, "Grace"; Friday, "Helen." Here are some workouts I've found on a CrossFit website:

Linda
Perform the following circuit using this repetition scheme 10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 - for time:
A1. Deadlift, 1 1/2 Bodyweight
A2. Bench Press, Bodyweight
A3. Clean, 3/4 Bodyweight

Nancy
Perform five sets of the following superset, for time:
A1. 400 meter run
A2. Overhead squat 95 lbs x 15
Diane
Perform three supersets of the following exercises, for time, performing sets of 21/15/9 reps.
A1. Deadlift 225 lbs
A2. Handstand push-ups

The CrossFit program is controversial. A New York Times article published on December 22, 2005, presented these quotes by Glassman: "It can kill you...I've always been completely honest about that," and "If you find the notion of falling off the rings and breaking your neck so foreign to you, then we don't want you in our ranks." The article also said that a popular axiom among CrossFit practitioners is "I met Pukey," which suggests they have vomited as a result of training so hard. Notes the author of the article, Stephanie Cooperman, "Some even own T-shirts emblazoned with a clown. Pukey. CrossFit's other mascot is Uncle Rhabdo, another clown, whose kidneys have spilled onto the floor presumably due to rhabdomyolsis." Rhabdomyolsis is a serious kidney disease, often associated with excessive exercise.
On the legal side, on October 9, 2008, the Associated Press filed this story:

“MANASSAS, Va. — A former Navy information systems technician has been awarded $300,000 after suing a Manassas gym over an exercise program he says left him permanently disabled.

“Makimba Mimms, 29, of Bristow says the CrossFit workout he did in 2005 caused him to urinate blood and his legs to swell.

“Mimms sued Manassas World Gym, where he did the workout; Ruthless Training Concepts, a CrossFit affiliate at the time; and a Ruthless employee who administered the workout. A Prince William County jury found all three defendants liable Wednesday.”
In the legal complaint, these were the specific breaches of duty (constituting negligence or gross negligence) cited against instructor Javier Lopez:
• He failed to exercise ordinary care.
• He failed to refrain from injuring plaintiff.
• He failed to give plaintiff proper and reasonable instruction.
• He gave plaintiff unreasonable and hazardous instructions, entreating and demanding that plaintiff exert extraordinary effort, not cease to rest, not cease to drink fluids or regain his strength, breath and resilience.
• He failed to refrain from exposing him to extraordinary hazards and actual injury to his person.
• He failed to observe and monitor plaintiff so as to guard and protect him from injury.

In the basic CrossFit certification, which costs $1,000, participants are introduced to numerous workout protocols and exercises, including the Olympic lifts. According to recent comments on a website from an individual who went through the certification, and from information that I viewed on their website, these certifications primarily consist of participating in workouts. There is no written exam to determine if the participants fully understand the material presented. Pay $1,000 and you are certified, and pay $1,000 and you can promote your business as an affiliate. The first CrossFit gym opened in 1995, and I've read where there are now over 600 CrossFit affiliates.

A Cause for Concern
Many individuals love CrossFit, and in fact it has been criticized as having a cultlike following. Many of these individuals believe it is the perfect program that will enable them to achieve their goals and are very satisfied with their progress. And I have no doubt that some individuals have never been injured from CrossFit. That being said, here are six of my major issues with this form of training.

1. Lack of Sufficient Testing Protocols. In looking over detailed notes from a CrossFit certification, I was concerned about the lack of testing for structural balance issues with trainees. There are protocols for beginning, intermediate and advanced workouts using multi-joint movements. But in my work with Olympians in 20 different sports and with numerous professional athletes, before having any athletes perform their first power clean or squat, I recommend a series of structural balance tests to red-flag muscle imbalances that could increase the athlete's risk of injury. And if there is a history of injuries with an athlete, those should be addressed in any workout design.

One reason Olympic shot-putter Adam Nelson could not perform power snatches before I started working with him was that he had adhesions in his rotator cuff muscles - after we addressed this injury with such treatments as Active ReleaseTM, Nelson was able to reintroduce this valuable exercise in his workout and within a month did 286 pounds for three reps. Jim McKenzie, a professional hockey player I've trained, went from a 280-pound close-grip bench press to 380 pounds in less than four months by focusing on corrective exercises - and for the first three months of this program Jim did not perform bench presses!

2. Focus on a Single Training Protocol. In regards to the concept of specificity, the protocols in CrossFit are not appropriate for developing the highest levels of strength or power or speed. It is doubtful that you will see any elite powerlifters, weightlifters or sprinters using CrossFit protocols as their primary method of conditioning. For example, I'm training Sam Baker, an NFL lineman who needed to dramatically increase his strength and muscle mass. Prior to Baker's entering the NFL, where he went as a #1 draft pick, in two months my training protocols enabled him to add 25 pounds of solid muscle, reduce his bodyfat by 8.1 percent, increase his vertical jump by four inches and significantly increase his strength. I didn't accomplish this by having him superset high-rep push-ups with mile runs.

Many sport coaches often overemphasize energy system training with athletes, often to the detriment of other physical qualities. Check out any exercise physiology textbook and look at the studies performed on elite athletes and their VO2 maxes. It is not necessary for a baseball player, or a basketball player for that matter, to have a VO2 max of 70. The promotional materials I've read about CrossFit imply that this type of training addresses all the strength and conditioning needs of an athlete, but the concept of specificity suggests that if you try to excel at everything it is unlikely that you will reach the highest levels at anything. This is why we don't see individuals who can run a mile in four minutes flat and also bench press 500 pounds.

3. Insufficient Instruction for Teaching Complex Training Methods. It takes more than a single weekend seminar to develop the competency to teach certain types of exercises or be able to adequately prescribe protocols for complex training methods. In this category I would include the classical Olympic lifts, strongman exercises and plyometrics. Often in the strength coaching profession these aforementioned training methods have been criticized as dangerous; but when you look at why athletes become injured from these training methods, it can often be traced to poor technique.

4. Inappropriate Repetition Brackets for Complex Exercises. Although high repetitions and short rest intervals can be used to develop muscular endurance, these protocols should not be used in some exercises. This is especially true with the Olympic lifts, as it is difficult to maintain proper technique when using high reps with these exercises - especially when supersetting them with other multi-joint exercises such as deadlifts. Simply watching CrossFit trainees performing these lifts in videos on their website will confirm this truth. Further, the Olympic lifting movements are most appropriate for developing power; if you want to develop muscular endurance, simpler movements should be used.

5. Inappropriate Exercise Order. To achieve specific responses from exercises, the exercise order should be addressed. As shown in the "Linda" workout described earlier, what is the logic in fatiguing the lower back with deadlifts prior to performing power cleans? To activate the high-threshold motor units with power cleans and to perform them with optimal technique, all the sets of the power clean should be performed before deadlifts. Further, combining weight training exercises with sprints places an athlete at a high risk of injury, especially to the hamstrings.

6. Endorsement of Controversial Exercises. On one website of a CrossFit affiliate, I saw video clips of athletes jumping onto cars and standing on Swiss balls. I appreciate having a wide variety of exercises to use with clients, but you have to question the logic of using such high-risk exercises in a program.

The principle of individuality suggests that not everyone will response equally to the same workout program, and that for optimal results a workout program should take into account those factors that are responsible for this difference. If you're an 18-year-old Army recruit about to be deployed to Iraq, then perhaps the CrossFit program might be appropriate for this individual. If you're an elite athlete trying to reach the highest levels in your sport, a CrossFit approach may not be the optimal way to train.

Because of these concerns, I cannot recommend CrossFit training, especially for those seeking the highest levels of athletic performance. But in the interest of being open-minded, let's leave it at this: Despite its many inadequacies, CrossFit is a workout system that is continually evolving. It'll be interesting to see how the program changes as more athletes, and non-athletes, participate in this program.

Nice work, 200

Herv100 wrote:Nice work, 200

Agreed.

I now look forward to the Institute's rendition.

And here I thought Poliquin was a French-Canadian nut job.

Well, he is; but damn if he's not right on point.

what are x-fitters saying in response?

where do i find glassman's tirade about poliquin's weak squat, underperforming athletes, and unethical behavior?

Poliquin is everything Glassman wants to be.

1. S&C for Olympic and professional athletes
2. Lots of respect despite his assholishness

Tune in soon to cultfit radio for response.

steelydan wrote:Waterbury probably e-mailed Shaf just to keep him updated.

Then we need details! Is she a freak? Or does she just lay there like a beached (albeit busty) whale? Talk on the cell phone during? Is she into mirrors?

GoDogGo! wrote:

steelydan wrote:Waterbury probably e-mailed Shaf just to keep him updated.

Then we need details! Is she a freak? Or does she just lay there like a beached (albeit busty) whale? Talk on the cell phone during? Is she into mirrors?

Ever see Klute? She checks her watch.

So I've heard.

She can't get into it unless you're stabbing that asshole. Once you split open her brown eye, she goes to instawhore.

Marc are you sure you should be talking like that? You're in Utah. Let me say that stuff...I'm goin' to hell anyway.

Shapecharge wrote:Marc are you sure you should be talking like that? You're in Utah. Let me say that stuff...I'm goin' to hell anyway.

Shape,

I'm going to hell now too.
I anally impregnated ANYC & not BigAssTitties BatShitCrazy is gonna be my butt baby's momma.

So, what you're saying is, ANYC actually stands for AnalNYC?

Looked back at the origins of this thread and found out that we're coming up on the 3rd anniversary of this foolishness. It started out as a serious discussion of lines of force in KB and BB lifts but quickly devolved into a discussion of the insanity perpetuated daily on the @fit site.

Speaking of which, seems like they're going old school and posting flashbacks quite often now to reinforce their credentials. Today's pic is from 2005, about the time I was a cultfitter. The girl in the pic is Lannie Lau. She was an original @fit girl who disappeared sometime about 2006. Great squat; great ass.

isn't she the chick that could OHS with her hands and feet together?

Something for the IGx detectives out there:

I spent about an hour entering Glasshole's name into every search engine that I could think of, in the hope I could turn up some cool shit.

I did this for various other people back in the day with fun results; back when Pavel was cheerfully implying to anyone who would listen that he'd seen heavy SpecOps action in Afghanistan, I remember looking up his actual age and figuring that either Pavel changed his age when he came to the US, or they were sending people a little young to Afganistan.

Going to the Wayback machine's pretty cool, too - you get to see the bullshit that people were peddling back when they were young and naive and when they were only trying to con a smaller audience.

But Glassman's a fucking blank before he starts self-promoting with Crossfit.com. The dude is about 52, no surprises. He's moved around a bit:
* SANTA CRUZ, CA
* PRESCOTT, AZ
* CAPITOLA, CA
* WOODLAND HILLS, CA
* SILAS, AL
* SAN DIEGO, CA
* SAUGUS, CA
... but who hasn't?

What makes me curious is the ex-gymnast stuff - claims: "My first training job was in 1974 as a gymnastics coach at the Pasadena, California Y.W.C.A. I was an 18-year-old college student. ". Also claims that the limp is an 'old rings injury'.

Anyone have anything else on Glassman's past? Probably hasn't got a competitive record or we'd be getting some competition win shoved up our asses harder than Matt Furey pushed his win in some Chinese tripping contest a decade back. Just seems a little fishy - no real mention of a continuing gymnastics career beyond age 18 - but he's limping around at 52? Hell of an injury given how non-specific they are about it! It's also a bit hard to see how - if he had a legit injury as a lad - he'd be getting to do much coaching without formal qualifications or ability to show off his own stuff. It's hard to avoid the suspicion that he tripped over an empty gin bottle.

I did this for various other people back in the day with fun results; back when Pavel was cheerfully implying to anyone who would listen that he'd seen heavy SpecOps action in Afghanistan

Link? I was around early on and he was pretty upfront about not being there.

Couch is too old for his amateur athletics stuff to be online. I doubt there's anything to speak of, but if there was, short of a lot of national-level success you'd probably be hard pressed to find anything that happened for anybody before the late 90's.

I've been around that site for a while but never saw a mention of which "college" he attended. My suspicion is no real degree to speak of; that explains the "secret" of the @fit black box.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

I did this for various other people back in the day with fun results; back when Pavel was cheerfully implying to anyone who would listen that he'd seen heavy SpecOps action in Afghanistan

Link? I was around early on and he was pretty upfront about not being there.

Couch is too old for his amateur athletics stuff to be online. I doubt there's anything to speak of, but if there was, short of a lot of national-level success you'd probably be hard pressed to find anything that happened for anybody before the late 90's.

That's pretty much the impression I got about this being too far in the past. Some groups scanned archives, but most amateur athletics stuff didn't start appearing until late 90s, like you say. Still, if there had been anything, surely we'd have heard about this. I figured we would have gotten a direct result from search, but maybe a Crossfit marketing claim circa 1996 where we would have laid claim to being 13th in the state or something...

Pavel, to my knowledge, never lied about being in Afghanistan, but as the marketing juggernaut got going, the statements became vaguer and vaguer.

Is the cooch wig for real?

Humoring comments from yesterday, responding to someone's request for info on Twight:

When Mr. Twight speaks of “athletes”, it’s important to understand that he is referring exclusively to long distance athletes. This is the only kind of sport that he has ever participated in or has but scant experience with. What Mr. Twight is disingenuously decrying, entirely motivated by a marketing pressure to distinguish his variant of CrossFit, is the lack of specialization in the CF adaptation.

If Mr. Twight had made an improvement in CrossFit programming it should be evident in something, anything, that one of his athletes had done. The non Gym Jones variant of CrossFitters are bettering their Gym Jones brethren at everything we can measure, so Mr. Twight has to dismiss it, curiously, as “CrossFit” and not “sport”. The sporting prowess he alludes to can only be found in his LSD buddies. On every other front, in every other sport, in anything that we can measure or find data for, his efforts elicit a low end CrossFit adaptation.

We’re increasing work capacity across broad time and modal domains evidenced by measurable, observable, repeatable data. Mark Twight is a plagiarist whose coaching successes are by and large conveniently unmeasurable. The great and solitary lesson of Gym Jones is that the first thing you want to do when you steal something is very quickly put your name on it. (Attaching one of these, ©, to someone else’s lifework is so much easier than making an original contribution. He should have stayed away from the press after getting exposed for that.)

The contrast between CrossFit and Gym Jones is a distinction without a difference. In summary, I cannot criticize Gym Jones because it is CrossFit; I cannot speak to Mr. Twight’s “enhancements” because they’re invisible.

Honestly, every time this comes up I’m reminded of my buddy’s “Rolex” he bought in Tijuana for $50. It helps me laugh.


Comment #29 - Posted by: Coach at October 26, 2008 12:32 AM

And a classic Koolaid'en follow-up:

Coach, you definetly have a way with words. I love it! By the way how high is your IQ?

Comment #30 - Posted by: Clement Charles Florence at October 26, 2008 1:27 AM

A 700# deadlifter materializes with a suspicious tale:

Long post but kinda funny.

I just started at a new gym last month so dont really know anyone there and they dont know me. The only thing they see me doing is the Crossfit WOD (or my attempts at them).

My background is in powerlifting but I have been CFing for a few months now. Today I decided to try a heavy deadlift and see where I was.

Started my warm-up with behind the neck push presses and was told by the guy benching in the smith machine these are real bad for me and I will most certainly hurt my shoulders, I told him I would be careful, he stopped watching me once I got to 315x5.

Next I went on to good mornings, this was just going to be a light warm-up until one of the trainers told me how bad they were and how many people hurt their backs. So now my ego took over and I worked up to 365x8 and made sure to tell him my back was still OK.

Now to start the deadlifting. There is only one area open enough for this so two pretty big guys asked if they could work in, so I said sure. I just put on my headphones and let them do their thing. We got to 405 and they start tightening up the belts and knee wraps and wrist straps. Takes them about 5mins to get ready to do a set of 3, looked like a max effort to. My turn comes up and they offer all this equipment and tell me how badly I will get hurt without it and that I really should work on my form and on and on. Now I am kind of annoyed I use some of their chalk and knock out a set of 12, put the bar down and tell them I am now warmed up enough to move on to some working sets. I grind out a set ot 5 with 585 and they decide it is time to do their power rack bicep curls. I finally get up to 675x2. Not to bad for just doing CF for a couple months.

Long post but the moral is you can get strong as hell on Crossfit, and if you bench in a smith machine and do bicep curls in the power rack you should keep your mouth shut.

Comment #118 - Posted by: bg1968 at October 26, 2008 11:08 AM