The couch thread

POD · Post by **POD** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:55 pm

I just stumbled upon this at CrossFit Edmonton. Wow. That dog is definitely humping the other one.

: CrossFitEdmonton.png (226.96 KiB) Viewed 8186 times

I was hoping I could use that Google cache thing to find more info on the CF Fredericton hullabaloo, but I don't quite get how the cache works. Someone mind explaining? It seems to temporarily store old versions of the page.

Hebrew Hammer · Post by **Hebrew Hammer** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:42 pm

Resident Quack wrote:So, I've done some searching around the interwebz, as I was wondering how @F's RRG would exactly plan on defending themselves and the commune against a rhabdo lawsuit. You lawyers feel free to chime in...

Diagnosis and confirmation of rhabdo in the medical literature would seem to be pretty straightforward:
http://www.residentandstaff.com/issues/ ... -06_03.asp

It would seem hard to deny an independent physician's diagnosis.

Obviously, there is already the precedent of Makimba Mimms' rhabdo lawsuit decision against an @F affiliate:
http://www.valawyersweekly.com/vlwblog/ ... /#more-798
Jury awards $300,000 in gym lawsuit
October 9th, 2008

In a case that surely will have gym owners checking their liability coverage, a Prince William County man has won a $300,000 jury verdict against a gym where he underwent a “CrossFit” workout regimen that, he claimed, left him disabled.

Makimba Mimms, 29, sued Manassas World Gym, Ruthless Training Concepts and its former employee, Javier Lopez. Mimms, a former Navy information systems technician first class, said Lopez oversaw a CrossFit workout at the gym in 2005 that caused his leg muscles to break down. The jury found all three defendants liable, according to the Washington Post.

CrossFit, which was not named as a defendant in the suit, is a fitness program popular in law enforcement and military circles and has been criticized as being dangerously intense.
The medical literature on "white collar rhabdomyolysis", which happens often enough to have its own name:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... 1013/pg_3/
Exertional rhabdomyolysis frequently occurs in people who are not adequately conditioned before severe exertion (Bonventre et al., 1995). One type of exertional rhabdomyolysis, termed "white-collar rhabdomyolysis," is observed in people such as physicians, businessmen, and attorneys who participate in competitive sports without being adequately conditioned to keep pace with a conditioned athlete (Bonventre et al, 1995; Knochel, 1998).
New free CFJ on the RRG:
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CF ... Reward.pdf
“CrossFit Headquarters was involved in trying to help out the defendant in that case,” CrossFit lawyer Dale Saran said on an Apr. 28 episode of CrossFit Radio. “The insurance defense attorneys, we offered to help them out, and they didn’t want any part of it. They didn’t want our expertise on rhabdo.”
They are experts on rhabdo, that's for sure, got the recipe for rhabdo perfected I'd say...

A study done on prison inmates who gave themselves rhabdo sounds very familiar to those who know @F:
http://www.charlydmiller.com/LIB04/1994 ... habdo.html
RESULTS

The study population consisted of 35 male patients with an average age of 24.4 ± 5.4 years. Nineteen patients were black, 15 were Hispanic, and one was white. All patients were imprisoned at Rykers Correctional Institution at the time of admission.

Past medical history did not disclose previous episodes of rhabdomyolysis in any of the patients. No patient described similar histories of muscle weakness from exercise or family members with any muscle problems. Although nine patients gave a history of ethanol abuse, no patient admitted to intake within 24 hours before heavy exercise. Eight patients had a history of drug abuse, but all denied use at the time of exertion. None of the patients admitted to taking nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs within 24 hours of muscle pain from exercise. Urine and blood toxicologic tests were all negative for all patients.

Thirty-one of the patients did squat-thrusts with or without weights, two patients did chin-ups, one patient lifted heavy weights, and one ran a long distance. These repetitive exercises were done not as part of a usual exercise routine but as a consequence of losing a game of dominoes. The number of squat-thrusts varied between 75 and 900, with weights from 40 to 170 lb.

Patients presented an average 2.7 ± 0.3 days (range, 0 to 5 days) after exertion. All patients complained of thigh or arm pain. A change in urine color was noted by every patient. On initial vital signs, no patient was found to be hypotensive (systolic blood pressure less than 100 mm Hg), tachycardic (pulse more than 100), or orthostatic (drop in systolic blood pressure more than 10 mm Hg or pulse change more than 10 with change in position) to any significant degree of hypovolemia. No patient presented with frank hyperthermia (temperature more than 39.4° C), flushing, or lack of sweating characteristic of heat stroke. On physical examination, trace edema of the involved extremities was the only consistent finding.
Random (as in not "usual"), high rep, functional exercises...I'm guessing they were done at a relatively high "intensity".

A quick search of "rhabdo" or "rhabdomyolysis" on the @F message board and daily comments pages would likely bring up a bunch.

The CFJ articles on rhabdo.
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/38 ... rhabdo.pdf
http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/33 ... rkouts.pdf

Mocking Makimba Mimms on the mainpage with a video of children doing the same workout.

Glassman's own quotes from the NYT article, which I posted previously, contain an admission that @F is inherently dangerous.

Seriously, with all of the history of rhabdo and all of the above, how could this even be defended? According to the RRG info, it would seem it is mainly being created because the specter of a successful rhabdo lawsuit hangs so heavy and frequent over this group...anyone?

This can not be defended, which is why it can't be insured. The notion that some lawyer who "knows" crossfit will have the superior intellect, knowledge and insight to defend against this is the height of silliness.

Trebuchet · Post by **Trebuchet** » Mon May 04, 2009 11:51 pm

Resident Quack wrote:My wife works for an insurance company that operates in NY state--they won't insure a home that has a trampoline..

None of that douchebaggery in Finland (you need to cross ref the Leoko thread in UPK to get this)

Anon · Post by **Anon** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:17 am

Just a screenshot from HCWDB lol, it would be a shame to have the comments truncated in the future and lose this exchange

: hcwdb.jpg (95.13 KiB) Viewed 8071 times

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:21 am

Charismatic megafauna wrote:So sweeet.

http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/ ... hiffy.html

OMG...CHICK FIGHT!!!

@F kitty-cats wrote:haha I know these two and he is a douch! Actually she is a fat girl...and he is just a steriod idiot. Good call
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:14 PM

hes not crossfit fame anymore.....now hes just an asshole.
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:15 PM

Shari BABY (40 is far from a baby)- You just think he's an idiot because he dumped you and by that logic that really makes him a genius.

I'm 120 with real tits and twice as strong as you. You're 100 with fakes and tons of botox to hold your face together.

I'd tell you to stop hatin' on me but that's what's this site is all about... so keep doing what you do best you jealous hag.
# posted by Allison : 4:55 PM

hahah watch it - who you really are is showing Allison. BTW Ill post what you wrote about an innocent 14 year old beautiful girl. Im glad he left...my life is way better without a lier in my house. :)Jealous?? Of your arm fat?? wait maybe your back fat?? Funny thing is you know nothing about me so you have to resort to this stupid stuff. I just stated facts.
# posted by Shari Baby : 5:20 PM

teh awesomeness...I want tix to this battle royale!

Fuzzy Dunlop · Post by **Fuzzy Dunlop** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:37 am

Resident Quack wrote:
Charismatic megafauna wrote:So sweeet.

http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/ ... hiffy.html

OMG...CHICK FIGHT!!!
@F kitty-cats wrote:haha I know these two and he is a douch! Actually she is a fat girl...and he is just a steriod idiot. Good call
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:14 PM

hes not crossfit fame anymore.....now hes just an asshole.
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:15 PM

Shari BABY (40 is far from a baby)- You just think he's an idiot because he dumped you and by that logic that really makes him a genius.

I'm 120 with real tits and twice as strong as you. You're 100 with fakes and tons of botox to hold your face together.

I'd tell you to stop hatin' on me but that's what's this site is all about... so keep doing what you do best you jealous hag.
# posted by Allison : 4:55 PM

hahah watch it - who you really are is showing Allison. BTW Ill post what you wrote about an innocent 14 year old beautiful girl. Im glad he left...my life is way better without a lier in my house. :)Jealous?? Of your arm fat?? wait maybe your back fat?? Funny thing is you know nothing about me so you have to resort to this stupid stuff. I just stated facts.
# posted by Shari Baby : 5:20 PM
teh awesomeness...I want tix to this battle royale!

This could be fucking awesome... and on top of that Shari Crazi just confirmed all the steroid accusations

Sofa King · Post by **Sofa King** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:39 am

Joe wrote:Just a screenshot from HCWDB lol, it would be a shame to have the comments truncated in the future and lose this exchange

hcwdb.jpg

My highest rating ever.
Two appearance on HCWDB and a cat fight in the comments. I hope it's really them posting.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:55 am

Since Joe did the screenshot, I'll update the quotes if there are any more in my post.

HH, thanks for the review, that's what I thought. I can hear the fat lady singing.

For proper comparison...

Steroids and cheating in @F Land, you say? Accusations from insiders who obviously aren't making their Kool-Aid strong enough? No way...

The next big $$ thing will likely be a collection for the @F Compound...where non-believers and weak performers will be converted or disappear
...

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:05 am

Hitler just found out about B-Boy and...predictably, he's not happy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p-DbytIakE[/youtube]

WildGorillaMan · Post by **WildGorillaMan** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:23 am

coop wrote:
Resident Quack wrote:
Charismatic megafauna wrote:So sweeet.

http://www.hotchickswithdouchebags.com/ ... hiffy.html

OMG...CHICK FIGHT!!!
@F kitty-cats wrote:haha I know these two and he is a douch! Actually she is a fat girl...and he is just a steriod idiot. Good call
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:14 PM

hes not crossfit fame anymore.....now hes just an asshole.
# posted by Shari Baby : 4:15 PM

Shari BABY (40 is far from a baby)- You just think he's an idiot because he dumped you and by that logic that really makes him a genius.

I'm 120 with real tits and twice as strong as you. You're 100 with fakes and tons of botox to hold your face together.

I'd tell you to stop hatin' on me but that's what's this site is all about... so keep doing what you do best you jealous hag.
# posted by Allison : 4:55 PM

hahah watch it - who you really are is showing Allison. BTW Ill post what you wrote about an innocent 14 year old beautiful girl. Im glad he left...my life is way better without a lier in my house. :)Jealous?? Of your arm fat?? wait maybe your back fat?? Funny thing is you know nothing about me so you have to resort to this stupid stuff. I just stated facts.
# posted by Shari Baby : 5:20 PM
teh awesomeness...I want tix to this battle royale!
This could be fucking awesome... and on top of that Shari Crazi just confirmed all the steroid accusations

That's a new high water mark, right there.

Holland Oates · Post by **Holland Oates** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:35 am

Patrick Donnelly wrote:I was hoping I could use that Google cache thing to find more info on the CF Fredericton hullabaloo, but I don't quite get how the cache works. Someone mind explaining? It seems to temporarily store old versions of the page.

What? Can some one elaborate on this?

Shapecharge · Post by **Shapecharge** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:41 am

Awesome. A reply from our girl Shari:

Shari Baby said...
hahah watch it - who you really are is showing Allison. BTW Ill post what you wrote about an innocent 14 year old beautiful girl. Im glad he left...my life is way better without a lier in my house. :)Jealous?? Of your arm fat?? wait maybe your back fat?? Funny thing is you know nothing about me so you have to resort to this stupid stuff. I just stated facts.

5:20 PM

Holland Oates · Post by **Holland Oates** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:47 am

Fuck never mind.

My google fu is much better than Pat's.

Kraj · Post by **Kraj** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:35 am

I'm glad someone called that douche on his male-pattern faux-hawk.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:28 am

B-Boy may be the nexus of the douche universe, but he's got some game going.

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:46 pm

Pole dancing!

I had a friend who was very good at that.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:12 pm

Methinks that @Fers are too dumb to understand the RRG at all...
http://www.crossfit.com/mt-archive2/004662.html

Comment 22 RRWhat " I am still not getting this RRG thing, wouldn't it be better to let the insurance companies take care of it?"

Ok, check it out. An RRG is the only way Crossfit is going to survive.

Did I say that loud enough,

AN RRG IS THE ONLY WAY THAT CROSSFIT IS GOING TO SURVIVE.

Here's why. Crossfit is growing to the point where someone soon is going to sue a crossfit affiliate and crossfit HQ and win. It does not matter if the plaintiff is right or wrong. The only thing that matters is that their will be a judgment against crossfit. Once that happens, we will all be sued out of business on precedent.

The only way to prevent this is to create a large war chest of dollars that will be used against any group of attorneys that attempts to sue Crossfit. Any attorney that knows that we have an RRG that has many millions of dollars to fight will tell a perspective client to find another attorney.

We win by never having to fight. If you are involved at any level in crossfit, sign up for the RRG now!

Have Fun, Train Hard,

Billy
Comment #52 - Posted by: Billy Olympic Crossfit at May 4, 2009 9:23 PM

So by this logic, no one would ever sue a physician, because their malpractice insurance has SO MUCH MONEY they're scary. Sorry dude, but the fact that @F has that "war chest" (think easily targeted bank account) AND there is now a precedent of a successful lawsuit against an @F affiliate means you're totally ass-backwards in your thinking...

UPDATE: 10 days left for the RRG. $193k / $500k raised, less than 40%, only about ~150 affiliates on board, MAJOR affiliates still missing from the list...

Gary John · Post by **Gary John** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:40 pm

Thanks for finding the best parts of that rpg program. If I owned an affiliate, I'd be talking big time to my attorney.
The house of cards will fall over this. Tough talking about kick ass lawyers ain't stopping claims. Again, half a mil ain't shit.

There isn't a shortage of lawyers in America.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:43 pm

Gary John wrote:Thanks for finding the best parts of that rpg program. If I owned an affiliate, I'd be talking big time to my attorney.
The house of cards will fall over this. Tough talking about kick ass lawyers ain't stopping claims. Again, half a mil ain't shit.

There isn't a shortage of lawyers in America.

Thanks Gary, just doing my part to make it easier for the anti-cult attorneys to find their info at a one-stop shop!

Shafpocalypse Now · Post by **Shafpocalypse Now** » Tue May 05, 2009 1:49 pm

Too bad the RRG, even if fully implemented, isn't going to erase 6 years of sneering and posturing about rhabdo.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:02 pm

The Bastard Son of the Shafman wrote:Too bad the RRG, even if fully implemented, isn't going to erase 6 years of sneering and posturing about rhabdo.

That and the fact that

Delusional @Fer who doesn't realize he hasn't paid any premiums yet wrote:RRG that has many millions of dollars to fight

does not equal

RRG bean-counters wrote:$196,000 / $500,000
...of our capitalization has been raised to date.

ADD: The shaming is building up, soon the GWF will be knockin' some heads...
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/2 ... 90505.html

Let's take all this CrossFit Risk Retention Group talk and break it down simply: The RRG is our shield and our sword against those who would want to harm CrossFit. Without it, we are all like the young lady in the photo above: A bit out of synch with her peers and about to draw some unwanted attention and correction. (And, no, your regular insurance is not likely to cover you the same way.)

Do you need to hear any more about the RRG? Have you seen the videos on the main page? Heard the CrossFit Radio shows? What's holding you back from joining? Why are we not at our $500,000 goal yet?

3..2..1..PAY UP, BITCHES!!!

Gin Master · Post by **Gin Master** » Tue May 05, 2009 2:22 pm

The HCWDB thread is epic. I checked that before clicking on IGX. I wept. My week can't get any better.

The Bastard Son of the Shafman wrote:Too bad the RRG, even if fully implemented, isn't going to erase 6 years of sneering and posturing about rhabdo.

I posted this on @F forums when the lawsuit was going on. Couch either offered or gave deposition testimony on the subject. These asshats don't understand that anything they say is not confined to a single lawsuit but will be usable until the end of time. The logos, the comments, the quotes in newspapers, the injury forum, the video named after Makimba...it's all there.

This last few years has been hard on plaintiff's law. A case like this would be a shot in the arm. It's easy and relatively inexpensive to work up. All you would need:
* the treating physician
* nephrologist (the only real significant cost)
* a life care planner (if the person is FUBAR)
* an economist
* someone from NSCA (hell, Mike Boyle might do it for free)
* and a videographer to compile all of Couch's stupid comments into one presentation

You'd be out about $15-25K to return a verdict 20x that. Then all that would be packaged into a @F litigation kit and passed around for other lawsuits. I can't believe the RRG is posturing like this.*

*Even if they say they won't settle, they can bracket at trial (where parties agree on a high/low number to avoid exposure on either side). There's no way they'll go into a courtroom without something like this. Then again, it looks like the RRG lawyers are @Fers. Like the Hebe says, this is not helpful at all. Sometimes it's actually worse.

CultBuster · Post by **CultBuster** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:22 pm

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... isode1.wmv

For fucks sake! B-Boi getting called out for juicing...classic! Anyone seen the figh a while back on CFNYC between THEM and Alli Tits?

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:23 pm

Glassman has backed himself into the perfect Catch 22. If he supervises his "trainers" and controls the safety and quality of his Cultfit program, he runs smack into STEEP franchise laws and taxes. But by purposefully refusing to supervise his "trainers" (whom he charged $1000 to get certified, in addition to annual affiliate fees) and not controlling the safety and quality of his product (the WODs, etc.), he's going to get royally fucked in the personal injury realm.

It's a recipe for a Plaintiff's verdict: selling "licenses" and "affiliations" to untrained, uneducated people, and then intentionally refusing to supervise them as they implement high-intensity workouts to the general public.

Couch's whole cowboy "fuck 'em" attitude doesn't sell real well when you're making money hand over fist and some grey-hair from Connecticut dies from rhabdo after flipping tires in the sun. He'll look like an absolute fool on the witness stand trying to explain how everyone in the exercise industry (NSCA etc.) is wrong, except him.

Gin Master · Post by **Gin Master** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:02 pm

This is a good question.

David said...

Shari, my dear I must ask: Does letting this douche motorboat(as I'm sure he's inclined to do) leave scars from the mo?

Once again, Shari has a pic with Carl (formerly Diva's claw hammer target). Are we in store for a 3-way cat fight? What will Hitler think?

http://sharikeener.blogspot.com/

IGX

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