IGX

Resident Quack wrote:

Pain vs. Discomfort

Of all the fitness rumors ever to have surfaced, more than likely the "no pain-no gain" holds the most potential for harm. We really know how to push ourselves in CrossFit, especially when being motivated by a group of equally masochistic people.

Granted, you should expect to have some degree of ridiculous soreness a day or two after hitting a WOD. However, that's very different from feeling pain while you are working out.

A movement should not hurt or cause sharp pains while you are doing it, and if it does, then either you are doing it wrong, or you already have an injury. We all know how to push ourselves, but there is a difference in feeling pain and feeling discomfort. As for "working through the pain," I wouldn't advise it. Take it from me. There are aches and pains, such as joint pain, bone pain, muscle strains, and ligament or tendon strains, which are bad, and you should back off of because they'll only get worse as time goes on.

Bottom line...know the difference between the two. Train smart AND hard. Happy Friday everyone.
[emphasis mine]

The Unflushable DEATHTURD wrote:LOL at couch sleeping with anybody-- sex is too much like exercise for him.

The Unflushable DEATHTURD wrote:LOL at couch sleeping with anybody-- sex is too much like exercise for him.

Thud wrote:CF has been a cash cow for Rip - he knows to take care of couch because couch put him on the map. Without CF he was just another local black iron gy struggling to fill the place with $350/yr memberships.

Joe wrote:While you spent your weekend with your dick in one hand and the other on the keyboard bashing the RRG, (00(h has been boondoggling down in Peru, looks like he poured on the charm with the Chicas, or at least the Gin.

Cooch - he's everywhere you want to be:

cute_couple.jpg

The Bastard Son of the Shafman wrote:Aw, Gin Master, I still love your whore ass.

Thud wrote:I can't imagine couch flying without picturing him casing the plane for barf bags.

A cabinet full of booze and bags afford him the courage to wage war against the heretics and infidels. The knowledge he can puke at his desk and sleep on his keyboard while he goes to war with the Josh Hillises and Brandon Otos of the world is the only thing that keeps him from sleeping in the tub every night.

Thud wrote:

Dalp wrote:

sigifrith007 wrote:

Thud wrote:

Thud wrote:
In either case, I don't see Catalyst or Mike's on the RRG page, which was my main point:

http://www.crossfitrrg.com/

That's a good point, Thud, you sexy thing. It is interesting those boys aren't out in front supporting this thing, like, for example Rippetoe. And with GE's recent article calling the lack of CF periodization to task it makes me wonder if a rift is underfoot.

It's also possible that, with all their other accreditations, real coaches are less likely to be shut-out by insurers. Not to mention real trainers are less likely to damage their trainees.

So you say that Rippetoe IS out in front supporting this?

CFWF is on the list, but I haven't heard Rip say anything about it. Did he?

"out in front" was a poor choice of words, but his gym is signed up, while CA and Mike's Gym are not.

CF has been a cash cow for Rip - he knows to take care of couch because couch put him on the map. Without CF he was just another local black iron gy struggling to fill the place with $350/yr memberships. I get the sense Bergener, and now CA, seem to feel their involvement with CF is less critical - perhaps even a looming liability. Berg trains national level athletes, and his 4 platform garage gym really can't support a dozen dweebs kipping and puking about, trying to show his sweet daughter their penis tats and piercings.

Gin Master wrote: This forum is invading my brain. Last night was steak night. After my third glass of wine, I thought, "fuck this," went into the garage and got up on the rings. I was doing some low-level shit when my wife came outside and asked what I was doing. I was hanging upside down and told her that some fuckhead got bit and fell off some rings a couple decades ago and now walks around with a limp. She didn't see the humor in it.

cb,

Your dilemma is in large part the fruit of not defining your terms ("fittest"). Once you clear that up you'd more likely be able to answer your own question with but a modicum of empirical evidence and an examination of the CrossFit record.

The question you are trying to ask, or at least should ask, in my opinion, is, "does CrossFit disproportionately attract athletes with inordinate genetic potential, and does that, can that in part, explain the superior fitness of CF'ers?"

Regarding your test: suppose you came from a period of inactivity and did Fran for the first time for a time of, say, 30 minutes. If you were to do nothing but Pilates, and meditate, for 30 days after, you'd find your next to be dramatically improved. If you find a way to do what you're almost claiming, improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit.

Comment #49 - Posted by: couch at May 11, 2009 8:03 AM

#49 - couch

You wrote, "If you find a way to ... improve CF scores/times absent CF stimulus, I'll help you become rich. You'd have a million dollar concept and I'd embrace your methods, give you ample credit - quite publicly, and we'd have a major evolution of CrossFit".

I'm curious what you regard as "CF stimulus".

Is it the main page WODs? The trademark "metcons" like Fran? Does MEBB count? (Lots of people report improved Crossfit times/scores using that program.) What about a mix of Rippetoe's "Texas Method" with a couple of sessions each week mixing sprints, box jumps, and sled pulling? What if I use periodization instead of randomization?

Is there a list of criteria that can be applied to determine if a training method counts as "CF stimulus"?

Dutch Lowy recently wrote: "Crossfitters are weak and its holding us back!" He thus advocates Coach Rut's MEBB.

http://www.dutchlowy.com/2009/05/07/meb ... /#comments

If incorporating a strength program like MEBB or Rippetoe's "Starting Strength" improves Crossfit times/scores, does that count as a major evolution of Crossfit? If so, I think it's already occurred.

Comment #66 - Posted by: jwolfram at May 11, 2009 9:54 AM

jwolfram,

Any approach that can produce top or significantly improved scores would be a major improvement. I've seen neither top scores nor significant improvement (improvement beyond quite ordinary), but believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions. That's what I'm seeing. Someday, someone, is going to win at the Games or produce a firebreathing champion of the WOD's through tweaks in programming. I'm counting on that happening. It may very well be Rip and/or Rut. They've not done it yet, at least as far as data or evidence could support. Until I can find empirical evidence, that meets the requirement of data, to support a proposition I remain unconvinced even when it inconveniences me (I want the improvements in programming to arise) or my friends (they want the same).

I cannot stress highly enough the difference between speaking and demonstrating a fact.

I agree with Dutch. CrossFitters are not strong enough. They're not powerful enough. They're not quick enough. They're not flexible enough. They don't possess enough coordination, accuracy, agility, or balance. Dutch needs to now show that he's got a solution to the agreed on problem. To date there is ZERO evidence to believe that he has. I wish him the best of luck from the bottom of my heart. When he does, nobody will be able to hide the fact and nobody will miss his champions on these very pages or at the Games. Right?

Comment #72 - Posted by: couch at May 11, 2009 10:38 AM

couch (re: post 72, as it sits now) -

You said "I've seen neither top scores nor significant improvement (improvement beyond quite ordinary), but believe that the regularly touted improvements and mod's to the WOD have produced reduced results and NO champions."

Caity Matter last years female winner advises in her interview that she wasn't following the mainpage strictly (ie a modified CF) prior to the games.

Jeff Tincher last years #5 follows his own programming, and of course Mr. Josh Everett (who arguably has produced the most consistent performance) doesn't follow it either.

These are just quick easy references. A deeper look would likely produce similar supportive findings.

Granted all Crossfitting (not debating that) in one way or the other, but definitely not following the mainpage.

Comment #93 - Posted by: aware at May 11, 2009 3:07 PM

Couch wrote:Until I can find empirical evidence, that meets the requirement of data, to support a proposition I remain unconvinced even when it inconveniences me

Couch wrote:Until I can find empirical evidence, that meets the requirement of data, to support a proposition I remain unconvinced even when it inconveniences me

Resident Quack wrote:
James Fitzgerald (aka OPT, winner of the 1st Gaymes) talks in this video http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/OPT- ... w-May3.mov about injuries (no...) and his 2 on / 1 off training regimen. Add another person to the list not following HQ recommendations. Everyone is improving on their crappy programming. If they admit anyone out there is doing so, doubt is created, thus denial is the norm.

Joe wrote:Wow, this guy really is drunk or high, watch until at least 2:15, and you will see it.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... esults.wmv

or

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/Cros ... esults.mov