IGX

I kind of support OWS but I also enjoy seeing people get the shit kicked out of them. I can't help what I am. :)

in all truthiness I think OWS is awesome and the best thing for the movement is public ass beatings by the cops since it may garner some sympathy for those that are undecided.

I was against it at first but that was because all I saw was jobless hipsters begging for a handout. I think there is a lot of that still but I think something needs to be done in regards to big business and the government running rough shod over the common man.

johno wrote:Yeah, the rule of law is really square. God help us if your vision of justice is imposed. Although, you might be ahead of me in the line to the guillotine - I'd get a chuckle out of that.

A movement to reform the law means abandoning rule of law? That's an interesting conclusion. I like how you went down DARTH's road o' hyperbole with the French Revolution allegory though. Any more historical atrocities we can trot out as painful analogies?

The entire point of this thing is that ignoring the people and playing the semantic word-games of legalism to support a de-facto aristocracy leads to bad places. Like, for example, people losing faith in the legitimacy of the law.

If OWS is a movement to reform the law, it's news to me. All I've seen is an incoherent yawp, "No Fair." As in, No Fair that I have to work for a living. No Fair that my Underwater Basketweaving degree won't pay for the $200,000 debt I've incurred. No Fair that some earn more than others.

As to "semantic word-games of legalism," that is often what the Law amounts to. The Law is words and words require interpretation.
Sometimes it's complex and Joe Sixpack doesn't understand it. So what? Sometimes the internal combustion engine is complex, and beyond the understanding of Joe Sixpack.
But until there's a better option, I'll stick to both the legalistic law and the internal combustion engine.

The Crawdaddy wrote:Reporters. Hmm. Can't decide if I hate them worse than lawyers or dog shit.

If used to make soylent green, they could all provide a cheap food source ending third world poverty. Win Win. Although starving people might have enough self respect to not want to eat lawyers.

Interesting thread. Real income of middle and low class has been going down in the last couple of decades, while that of the richest has increased considerably, lately by irresponsible actions that lead to economic disaster. Now, when someone gets up to protest - however clumsy it is - the middle- and low class rises up to protect the rich.

Who do you expect to be in OWS, blue collar working stiffs with university degrees? I am afraid they are busy toiling to keep up the mortgage repayments. Government agencies? But they are tied up with the big business. So it is up to bums to stir and attract attention to the lawlessness of Big Bucks, and I am grateful to them for doing the job.

johno wrote:As to "semantic word-games of legalism," that is often what the Law amounts to. The Law is words and words require interpretation.
Sometimes it's complex and Joe Sixpack doesn't understand it. So what? Sometimes the internal combustion engine is complex, and beyond the understanding of Joe Sixpack.
But until there's a better option, I'll stick to both the legalistic law and the internal combustion engine.

I'm going to remind you of this post with a nice shiny link every time you bitch about Obama, Congress, or any other governmental action you dislike in the future.

It's the law, after all. Just shut the fuck up and deal, you dig?

ÜberSmet wrote:Interesting thread. Real income of middle and low class has been going down in the last couple of decades, while that of the richest has increased considerably, lately by irresponsible actions that lead to economic disaster. Now, when someone gets up to protest - however clumsy it is - the middle- and low class rises up to protect the rich.

Who do you expect to be in OWS, blue collar working stiffs with university degrees? I am afraid they are busy toiling to keep up the mortgage repayments. Government agencies? But they are tied up with the big business. So it is up to bums to stir and attract attention to the lawlessness of Big Bucks, and I am grateful to them for doing the job.

By 'stir and attract attention' you mean 'raise revolutionary consciousness' don't you.

1. Think of the OWS protestors

2. Check out this picture:



3. Try and think of some differences.

Exhibit A:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdTpU5WZHHM[/youtube]

Exhibit B:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxnp2_KV-48[/youtube]

Jag Panzer wrote: I'm going to remind you of this post with a nice shiny link every time you bitch about Obama, Congress, or any other governmental action you dislike in the future.

For a smart guy, you're a dope. Go back to 8th grade Civics Class.

In short, the law is what the law is. That doesn't oblige me to agree with the Pres. or Congress on policy, i.e. what future legislation or policy should be.

From the cleanup. Lots of diabetics at OWS it seems...

powerlifter54 wrote:

From the cleanup. Lots of diabetics at OWS it seems...

Well, it is America.....

johno wrote:That doesn't oblige me to agree with the Pres. or Congress on policy, i.e. what future legislation or policy should be.

Sorry, law's the law. You're obliged to deal with it because rule of law.

Painting yourself into a corner is kinda awkward, huh?

johno wrote:If OWS is a movement to reform the law, it's news to me. All I've seen is an incoherent yawp, "No Fair." As in, No Fair that I have to work for a living. No Fair that my Underwater Basketweaving degree won't pay for the $200,000 debt I've incurred. No Fair that some earn more than others.

I actually know people who are involved in OWS and OccupyDC. They're all employed, most solidly middle-class, and rather less likely to be taking government handouts than any given Teabagger who relies on SS and Medicare to survive.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... g-20111025

It's easy to make fun of the kid who took on a shitload of debt to get a degree - but that's what we're told to do in this country, because you need a college-degree to have a real shot at even scraping by as a member of our pathetic middle class. We're told from day one of school that if you work hard and earn that degree, you'll be okay - turns out that isn't true. Unsurprisingly, people are upset to find out that the American Dream is bullshit.

The counter-arguments are, of course, community colleges and public schools. Community colleges fail miserably at their mission based on progression and graduation rates - turns out that useful education involves a whole lot more than classes disconnected from the rest of someone's life. Public school tuition is markedly higher than it's ever been before - even from 2000 (when I first started school) to today, Texas in-state tuition has risen by thousands of dollars - almost guaranteeing that students will have to graduate with significant debt. We can thank the GOP for starving the government there, I mean, an educated populace has never been a net benefit to American society right?

There's some delicious irony in wingnuts bitching about 'underwater basketweaving' (god knows why anyone would major in something so useless as sociology or history - heavens!), when the majority of degrees being pumped out are in business. Which, in terms of life and employment skills, is probably less useful than any of the liberal arts.

powerlifter54 wrote:

From the cleanup. Lots of diabetics at OWS it seems...

Or powerlifters!

milosz wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... g-20111025

This is a REALLY good article. I would encourage all to read this.

Everyone is playing their part. The OWS "useful idiots" create chaos that the police have to go in and put down. More unrest, more government control.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH8LkIqu1c8[/youtube]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 ... 99207.html

Daily Show nails it.

Turdacious wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/1 ... 99207.html

Daily Show nails it.

i am against private property, not personal property...

LOL

Fat Cat wrote:

powerlifter54 wrote:

From the cleanup. Lots of diabetics at OWS it seems...

Or powerlifters!

Nope, needle guages are too small and no McDonald's wrappers or Skoal cans laying around.

It's easy to make fun of the kid who took on a shitload of debt to get a degree - but that's what we're told to do in this country, because you need a college-degree to have a real shot at even scraping by as a member of our pathetic middle class. We're told from day one of school that if you work hard and earn that degree, you'll be okay - turns out that isn't true. Unsurprisingly, people are upset to find out that the American Dream is bullshit. [/quote]

This is a true question, what do you perceive the American dream to be. As someone who is in the lower middle class, I have a great life, I do not think I could be more happy. I have to stretch a buck, but so what, people have always had to do that.

Fat Cat wrote:

milosz wrote:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... g-20111025

This is a REALLY good article. I would encourage all to read this.

+1. Taibbi has the true knowledges. The robo-signing foreclosures are one of the most blatant examples of banks breaking the law.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45353723/ ... saTpMMr27t

"I've been arrested nine times for civil disobedience; I want to be arrested 12 times," Goldin said Thursday. "And I was sure I'd be arrested today, but the cops were determined because of the bad publicity for them, to not arrest an 87-year-old woman."

"I said [to an officer], 'What if I socked you in the eye?,' and he said, 'I'd give you a free shot,'" Goldin said. "'Well, what if I kneed you in the groin?,' and he said, 'No, you're not going to get arrested!'"

Before you feel bad for the old people getting pepper sprayed and arrested you may want to be aware of the fact that at least some of them specifically WANT exactly that.