IGX

We have a Brother (Dunn, and maybe others) new to the Fire Service, so I thought I'd start a thread on lessons learned & wisdoms acquired, both career and tactical. Other FF's are invited to chip in.

(Non-firefighting Citizens, shut up & keep paying your taxes. And stop asking why my Driver is fat.)

*****

My experience is from 27 years working in a sixty person Fire Dept. in the Pacific Northwest. Although my Dept. is small, we see all the shit that big city Seattle FD sees, except marine firefighting. But we get the job done with half the personnel that they typically use.

Much of my advice is to improve your odds for a healthy, full career. It's the Old Bull attitude in my sig. But some guys don't mind dying young & leaving a big insurance payout to their young, hot wives. That's cool, surviving FF's appreciate that & may stop by to provide her brotherly consolation.
YMMV.

*****

On every call, someone needs to make a risk-benefit analysis. Risk a lot to save a lot. Risk little to save little. While you're a new guy, find an officer who makes sound judgements - he may not be the "ballsiest" officer on your Dept. Sometimes ballsy means stupid but lucky.

Now that you are out of the Academy (and other cool schools), remember that your drill fires were in a controlled environment. That's not the case on the street. In the Academy, it's cool to melt your visor while hanging out in near-flashover temperatures...it helps you overcome your fear of fire. BUT in real life, if shit gets pretty hot, you have to do something: cool the overhead, back out & ventilate...something.

Likewise, it's great to practice crawling over, under, around & through Search Props. But those are skills you should employ on your way to the exit. It's not shit to do on the way to finding some fire to fight. Not even on a Primary Search. (Think about it.)

Check out Al Brunacini's writings. He's worth reading. His Blue Card Training is very worthwhile. (Although it's a $$$ money machine worthy of Couch, IMO.)

Transitional Attacks are often The Answer. There's no reason to enter a structure to attack the fire if you can get a decent knockdown from the exterior. Then mop-up/overhaul from the interior. If your officer scoffs at that philosophy, find a new officer because yours is an idiot.

Wear your SCBA during overhaul. Don't breathe that shit. Car fires are the worst. Wear your SCBA.


*****

That's all for now. I'll talk about aid calls & freeway calls later. And career stuff.
I'm curious what others have to say.

Here's a big one: Basement fires suck, especially if you are on the floor above. So, someone needs to do a 360/Walkaround before you commit.

*This for a typical residence.

Johno-- how do you guys handle hazmat stuff? Buddy of mine did that for a few years with FDNY before going back to regular duty.

yes, took me a couple of years to realise car fires were probably the worst thing I could possibly breath in. May not be an instant death, but pretty sure a career of not wearing BA at these would lead to some fucked up lungs.

Keeping quiet, listening to others and smilingly accepting the inevitable piss taking for a good few months before you retaliate is the advice I got.

And don't spaz out and self-deploy if you're at a going job.

My brother was telling me the newer particle board type floor Joyce were widow makers. The might be fire treated but he says once they get too hot the de-laminate and come apart. He had a floor go out from under him 4 years ago.


If I build a house, I'm going old school with the joyces or I'll make them myself. For the sake of my family in a fire and any FF brave enough to come in for us.

Fire Fighters are fucking heroes on the job, no doubt.

Turdacious wrote:Johno-- how do you guys handle hazmat stuff? Buddy of mine did that for a few years with FDNY before going back to regular duty.

In a massive city like NYC, HazMat is probably a common emergency. In my town, we haven't had many HazMat calls since the anthrax/white powder scares died down in the early 2000's. Now, our usual HazMats are meth labs, ammonia leaks from big refrigeration units, and fuel leaks.

HazMat is not my thing, I'm too impatient. I was on our Rope Rescue team for a while, and was a Rescue Swimmer briefly. I'll talk about that later in the thread.

DARTH wrote:My brother was telling me the newer particle board type floor Joyce were widow makers. The might be fire treated but he says once they get too hot the de-laminate and come apart.

Truth. The laminate beams can delaminate at around 200 degrees. Fahrenheit.
AND thermal imagers (TICs) often can not detect a fire beneath the floor. That's why doing a 360 on a building is so important, to see if there's a daylight basement & if the seat of the fire is there.

BTW, in 1995, the Pang Warehouse fire killed four Seattle FF's when they fell through the floor into the fire burning underneath them. I attended the memorial service, and I'll never forget the looks in the eyes of the survivors.
I also was a guest on a radio talk show after the Pang fire, and was struck by how hurt the citizens were who called in. "Why do fire fighters go into fires in vacant buildings?"

I've only got about a third of the time on the job as johno, starting my tenth year next week. It sounds like we work at similar depts as well. My best piece of advice is to immolate the guys you want to be like. Every dept has the guys who love to bitch about EVERY LITTLE THING. You don't want to be like those guys...they suck and suck the fun out of the job. Get at a busy house if at all possible, the busier you are the less time you have to nit pick every little thing. Appreciate the job. It's cliche as fuck but its the best one out there.
I'm on my phone for the next several days. Some one youtube Ray McCormack's speech at FDIC and put it up (part 2 is the best). He covers it all. I watch that clip every time I start getting stale.
Train your balls off. It's awesome to hear my old mans stories of the "war years" but the fact is that we don't get fires like they used to, so you'll have to take it upon yourself to learn the job proficiently. Anyone in the Midwest should check out FDTN in Indy.
Stay safe, yo!

ButterCupPowerRanch wrote:My best piece of advice is to immolate the guys you want to be like.

Fuck yeah BURN THEM.

Uhh, could we get a primer on how to START a really good fire? Especially one that is difficult to determine ignition source and location? Thanks.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

ButterCupPowerRanch wrote:My best piece of advice is to immolate the guys you want to be like.

Fuck yeah BURN THEM.

You friend Darf on FB and next thing you know your speling like shit.

Shapecharge wrote:Uhh, could we get a primer on how to START a really good fire? Especially one that is difficult to determine ignition source and location? Thanks.

Read "Fire Lover," by Joseph Wambaugh, about a fire investigator who was a serial arsonist. But seriously, it's probably pretty difficult to do.

War Story: One of my former officers got arrested for the arson of his house. Never tried or convicted. But that was because (as I understand it) his wife confessed, but none of the evidence supported her confession.

I was union VP at the time, in charge of disciplinary stuff. Nightmare. Although our then-Chief gave the guy a chance to keep his job. Most chiefs would have immediately fired the employee because of the PR black eye.

johno wrote:I was union VP at the time, in charge of disciplinary stuff. Nightmare. Although our then-Chief gave the guy a chance to keep his job. Most chiefs would have immediately fired the employee because of the PR black eye.

You mean it's possible to get fired for that? Weak union.

DARTH wrote:My brother was telling me the newer particle board type floor Joyce were widow makers. The might be fire treated but he says once they get too hot the de-laminate and come apart. He had a floor go out from under him 4 years ago.


If I build a house, I'm going old school with the joyces or I'll make them myself. For the sake of my family in a fire and any FF brave enough to come in for us.

If you really want your house to hold up, you might want to ask for JOISTS instead of joyces. Unless you're counting on a bunch of women named Joyce to hold up your floor.

I've got 15 years on at an old east coast all-career urban department. We have 426 members.

This is a dirty, hot blue-collar job. It isn't that complicated no matter what everyone else tells you. Common sense and problem solving skills are the most important. Construction knowledge about how buildings are put together is very helpful as are any trade type skills. The thing I find myself telling new folks the most is "pay attention. Every run is a training evolution."

Get physicals annually. Pay attention to what your body is trying to tell you and take care of yourself. I've been on the job for 15 1/2 years and about 5 years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer. It's actually common among firefighters. Caught it early and after surgery and radiation I've been cancer free since.

I will be making LT. soon. Any advice for a new line officer?

Dan martins a long time firefighter as well.

I'd like to hear Dan's thoughts for this thread.

Re: new officer - Keep learning, be honest with yourself about your weaknesses, then address them. Don't think you always have to be the guy with the answer...you probably have guys on your crew who are just as smart as you are, and if you trust them, they will help you succeed & make you look good.

Read some Brunacini, if you haven't. Take his Blue Card training if you can. Dodson's "Reading Smoke" is also worthwhile, although I don't buy it 100%.

I have to disagree with Johno about Brunicini. He's a charlatan IMO. Blue card is good for the scenarios it presents, but the whole thing is NIMS repackaged for a chance to make some cash for the Brunicini family.
I'm still on vacation and only have my phone, but I'll post that Ray McCormack video as soon as I get back.
Not sure about the officer thing. I'm not one so I can't really say. I have a copy of John Norman's "Fire Officers Handbook of Tactics". A great book I recommend to anyone trying to build on their knowledge of structure fires.

ButterCupPowerRanch wrote:Blue card is good for the scenarios it presents, but the whole thing is NIMS repackaged for a chance to make some cash for the Brunicini family.

I wouldn't call Brunacini a charlatan, although I agree with the above. The Brunacini Blue Card "package" is a good way to help a new officer get his feet under him, tactically, IMO. If your Dept. already has an in-depth officers' development program and your fires are typically well-managed, then you might not need Blue Card.

Has there been a "real" Fire station reality show yet? Sounds like it would be a hit.

Thanks Johno and Butter Cup for your advice. I will look into Blue Card and John Norman's book.

As far as "Reality Shows" go, It probably doesn't any more real than this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioiMZvMdvas[/youtube]

Im a firefighter .13 years. I do it for the pension and the insurance and it covers my child support . My chief is a drunk .Im the new guy still as Im the last hire.We are shorthanded .We cannot cover the Two in two out and they consider it cheaper to pay the fines then actually staff us .My captian is the UBERFIRFIGHTER ..this means he is the Lt that all the guys in the Vietnam movies wanted to frag ,because he can and will get people hurt. The other guy is twitchy and has worked every angle to not come to work medically .To the point that it may fuck everybody else that going on two thirds pay helps out who have to use it for a true problem...This is my shift for the next 16 years .Shifts are picked every two years by seniority. Everyone else refuses to work with these two.

What do I have for you?..I go to every call as calm as possible .I am not tradeing my life for victims .I move at a pace that is measured and careful.Im my boss. Im not getting fucked up because UBER has got to be on every fucking fire in every township in a ten mile radius. The mayor dont give a fuck about us ,the chief is wasted , the assistant chief doesnt show up to calls anymore and my backup is downing zoloft by the handful before he puts on boots.

I try to help as much as possible.Mom knuckles loves her boy and Im fucking coming home no matter what.

I would love to read how other houses work ....this one is mine

Also just so I dont sound ungrateful to have a fire service job ,Iam glad to have it .They are hard to get .It can only get better ..or disbanded .

Knuckles, that sounds horrible. Find a new Dept, if you can.

This brings me to my next advice to aspiring/new FF's. First, take any job to get on a Dept. Get your FF1 & FF2, and some experience on the job. Then, around years 3 to 5, work on a lateral move to your ideal Dept. - in my experience, it's easier to lateral than to get that entry job in your ideal Dept. (If your ideal Dept. hires laterals. This probably rules out a lot of big city Depts.)

IMO, the sweet spot to make your move is around your fifth year.
PS - West Coast FF's are pretty well paid.

johno wrote:PS - West Coast FF's are pretty well paid.

So is the East Coast. It's all pretty much farmers in between.