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Dunn wrote:I am pretty okay with the whole going to war idea my main issues being away from family for that long. I know it may sound silly but I have grown up in a military town and seen what long deployments can do to a family. 6 months isn't bad but Ive had buddies go over and stay 1.5 yrs or more. Again, not something I would enjoy but not unbearable by any measure especially if you have an understanding spouse.

My main concern about all of this is being able to afford the education and still be able to keep a roof over our heads. The idea of more loans is distasteful to say the least since I already have about $30k worth from my BA. Gotta weigh my options and talk to some folks.

Re the military option:
1. There is no 'military option.' Each service is different. There are also Reserve/ National Guard options. Check out all of them and make sure that you understand what you're getting into. Make sure to get advice from someone who's done some serious time in the service you're considering-- they can tell you if the recruiter is giving you good advice and about other important things you probably haven't considered. Preferably someone in a related field to the one you're considering.
2. You're married and not facing a draft-- it is your wife's choice too (assuming you want to stay married). If she's needy, lacks self confidence, likely to screw around if you're gone for more than few weeks, and/or can't handle making decisions-- don't join. The military sucks for guys who make poor wife choices. Make sure she understands what she's getting into if you join. Assuming none of these are true about her-- consider suggesting that she talk to military wives who have husbands who've had to deal with multiple deployments. Make sure they are wives in the service you're considering. If you go active, and she works, it will affect her career. Make sure you both understand that aspect. If she's still going to school, there may be some benefits she'll receive as well.
3. The military can open a lot of career doors that you haven't considered yet. You won't know about those up front, but these might benefit you in the long run.

I completely agree with you on all fronts and thanks for the advice. The wife and I have been talking about various military opportunities for the past 2 years. She and I both know what it means for me to be in the service if I take that route. Right now I need to spend the next few weeks getting in touch with medical officer recruiters to see what my options are.

On a side note, this is one of the things that I love about this board. I can simultaneously peruse threads on my life choices, Christmas Cookies, exercise physiology, and good literature all in one go. I appreciate all the help.

I have friends who went to Emory, and I'm a Mercer Grad and guest lecture at their campus (I may teach adjunct there soon). I don't think you can go wrong with either school.
Emory and the ATL would be funner for you and the wife. Mercer and Macon are both cheaper. Both are excellent schools, although Emory has a more Ivy-League style reputation.
You'll get a job easily after both schools.
I'd do whichever option makes the most economic sense, be it military or civilian.

PA also will put you in demand for device and pharm companies if you were to decide that actually working with patients sucks. Like $80k base, $120k at quota demand.

Currently corresponding with a Navy medical officer recruiter about this stuff. I attempted Air Force and Army but he is the only one to call me back, so I will attempt to get in touch with recruiters from the other two branches this week.

Thanks again for all the advice.

After some run arounds and discussions, the wife and I decided to let to approach this from a civilian stand point. Looking at finishing my medic license in August and starting to knock out prereqs for school in the spring.

Thanks for all the help and input.

Dunn, you asshole. Get a fucking job and shut the fuck up already. By the time you've finished planning and diddling around for some illustrious future, your future will be over with.

Andy78 wrote:Dunn, you asshole. Get a fucking job and shut the fuck up already. By the time you've finished planning and diddling around for some illustrious future, your future will be over with.

a :snigger goes to Father Time

Andy78 wrote:Dunn, you asshole. Get a fucking job and shut the fuck up already. By the time you've finished planning and diddling around for some illustrious future, your future will be over with.

I have a job, but thanks. Seeing as I am not knocking on death's door like yourself, I think I have time for some planning especially when it means difference between doubling my annual income or not.

Been a while and I've been working as a firemedic trying to get a game plan up. While I originally was looking at the civilian side of this thing, I honestly don't see it working out without a metric ton of loans and barely scraping by while I am in school. Considered doing some work as a contract medic overseas but without military experience it is pretty damn hard to get on. On that note, I took the ASVAB today to see what doors that might open. Made a 94 AFQT with a 133 General Tech. Talking to recruiters now to see what's what. Sights are set on IPAP, Interservice PA Program, but I would have a ways to get there. At the moment we are talking OCS path with the National Guard. Everything is still up in the air but the pro's are currently outweighing the cons.

Best of luck however you proceed

Did you ever get in contact with a Health Professions specific recruiter? I think we talked about this before, but you can go to civilian school and get the military to pay for it and then you serve after you finish as an Officer. Lots of options but hard to find info sometimes.

I did. After some discussion the wife and I thought this might be a better plan for our situation.

There's a guy on the job here in Chicago (FF'er) who is now in his 2nd yr PA program, via military service. I've met him a couple of times but don't really know him. He got the deal of deals: he's on leave for two years (paid) and getting paid to go to school down in TX. So in addition to all of that he got to skip the shittiest winter in forever.
If it would be helpful I could get in touch with him and find out the details.. I think it was Nat'l Guard or Reserves.
Oh, and he's banging all kinds of college tail while he's at it. Not that you're looking, but still. That fucker.

Dunn wrote:At the moment we are talking OCS path with the National Guard.

Sounds like a sweet deal if you can swing it.

nafod wrote:

Dunn wrote:At the moment we are talking OCS path with the National Guard.

Sounds like a sweet deal if you can swing it.

That's the point. All talk and sentiment about serving aside, this is business and I am looking to make the best business deal possible. I want to make certain that this is a good investment into my career so that my wife and children (and myself by proxy) will be well taken care. Thus far, it seems like things are lining up. Looking forward to talking with the recruiter today or tomorrow to see what exactly we are looking at.

Polo Tomasi wrote:There's a guy on the job here in Chicago (FF'er) who is now in his 2nd yr PA program, via military service. I've met him a couple of times but don't really know him. He got the deal of deals: he's on leave for two years (paid) and getting paid to go to school down in TX. So in addition to all of that he got to skip the shittiest winter in forever.
If it would be helpful I could get in touch with him and find out the details.. I think it was Nat'l Guard or Reserves.
Oh, and he's banging all kinds of college tail while he's at it. Not that you're looking, but still. That fucker.

While my wife would kill me, that sounds like a damn fine deal. Haha.

If you get the chance then feel free to ask him for me. Any info, even anecdotal, is more than welcome.

All talk and sentiment about serving aside,

So, here's the problem, I know you already got this in the thread 2 years ago, but you can't just put that aside. The military is my "family business," so with over 40 years experience as both a dependent and then active duty, I will unconditionally tell you that the *only* 'good reason' to join [i.e., where I guarantee you will be happy with the decision] is to serve. My opinion, but I have seen way too many 'other reasons' result in someone looking at their service not as an opportunity, and job security, but as a jail sentence.

...this is business and I am looking to make the best business deal possible

But it's not business. It might be to you, but it's about securing the blessings of liberty now and for posterity to your employer, so they are going to ask you to do shit that you don't want to do, that is stupid, that is inefficient, and on and on. Not the kind of things a for-profit would do, but the things you do when statecraft comes above all else.

As others already expressed, over the years I have watched numerous people join because it "made financial sense," but in the end that is one of the least-rational decisions to sign up, particularly if you cringe at the idea of deployment. People learn really quickly that a year away from their toddlers is worth way more to them that paying $281 a month loans would have been... basically, all those things that were discussed in the 'working as a civilian contractor in Kuwait or Qatar' or whatever thread apply here times two, because the military doesn't give a shit if you like it or not. At least an employer has to cater to you a bit, once they decide they like you. I am guessing that if the military pays for school you are going to owe them at least 4-6 years upon entry into service? That's a long time to get 'yanked around,' if that ends up being how you perceive military life.

While, as others have mentioned, the era of "two major conflicts simultaneously" is obviously winding down, here's my personal anecdote: In the last decade I found myself deployed on Marine-led FID/AAT missions with African Union troops in northern and western Africa, and on multiple tours what I saw was not Navy Corpsman, not docs from any other service, but Air Force PAs deployed with us as medics. Which worked out great, and they were awesome dudes, and one even gave me coartem when I got malaria, so color me a huge AF-PA fan, given that one probably kept me from shivering/sweating to death.

So, if you go into it because you want to serve, that kind of experience in that kind of shithole place will be awesome and you will be a better man for it. But if you go in not with the attitude that you want to be a hero that you want your children to be proud of, but that you have tricked the government into paying for your school, you will be in for a surprise at some point. I have never seen the military fail to wring every cent they invested in a professional, out of said professional.

Just food for thought, because I can almost guarantee that if a recruiter lets you see anything other than the 'sunny side,' it will be minimized.

P.S. - this one might go without saying, but, if you go through with it, don't say to ANYONE else in uniform after you have taken the oath that you are in for the money. Period.

So, that post was the shitty, negative one. I want to make sure you go in eyes-wide-open and don't ever say "I wish someone would have told me..."

All that said, really take personal stock and if the issue is not just that the dollars and cents work out, but that the $$$ is awesome on top of the fact that you want to serve your country and love the idea someday of being a veteran, do it. Jump at the chance, if you get it.

Based on the extremely little I observe from your online presence, you seem to have the right constitution. I think you will be the kind of guy who rises to the occasion when those shitty deployments, or even seemingly menial experiences like long-ass hours at Bethesda, come up, and you will be proud of what you did AND you tricked the government into paying for your school.

One last personal rant: while in this thread and the overseas thread other people have given you some great pluses and minuses, I don't know that anyone has told you this... You never *really* know until you do it. There is truly no way to tell what is going to be your deepest reaction the first time you are in that uniform, looking in a mirror. But, man, I have loved every second of it. Like I said, I was raised in that environment, but there's nothing else I wish I would have done with my life. All the time away, missed holidays, shitty injuries (malaria and TB, to boot, damn it!), stupid schools, it's all worth it in the end.

So good luck and go kick ass, either way.

While I appreciate your opinion, I never said that I do not see it as an opportunity to serve. I said I am placing it aside in the sense that it is a given. I am a pragmatist above all else. Couching the fact that the job can be really shitty at times in veneers of glory and heroism might work on 17-18 yr old boys, but not me. It's hard work that will take a huge toll on me and my family. It just so happens that the cost, at least thus far, seems to be worth the endgame.

If I was concerned about being a "hero" to my family or others then I already have it covered if I want to put in on my resume. I don't devalue the idea, but it DOES make financial sense if I can get accepted to IPAP. As stated before, while I am not jumping at the bit to deploy, I am not opposed to it either. It's a part of the job, plain and simple. If I am misreading you forgive me, but you seem to think that I believe that this will be a free ride of some sort. If that is the case then you have horribly misread my posts and intentions. Regardless of what you say, it is a business deal with every person that signs up. You both bring something to the table and agree or disagree to the terms and you live with the consequences. There is nothing wrong with trying to get the best deal possible, since as you stated before....they "wring every cent they invested in a professional".

On the note of the recruiter, I am lucky in that I have a long time acquaintance as my recruiter. The talks we have had has been pretty candid on what to expect if this is a go.

Dirt McGirt wrote:So, that post was the shitty, negative one. I want to make sure you go in eyes-wide-open and don't ever say "I wish someone would have told me..."

All that said, really take personal stock and if the issue is not just that the dollars and cents work out, but that the $$$ is awesome on top of the fact that you want to serve your country and love the idea someday of being a veteran, do it. Jump at the chance, if you get it.

Based on the extremely little I observe from your online presence, you seem to have the right constitution. I think you will be the kind of guy who rises to the occasion when those shitty deployments, or even seemingly menial experiences like long-ass hours at Bethesda, come up, and you will be proud of what you did AND you tricked the government into paying for your school.

One last personal rant: while in this thread and the overseas thread other people have given you some great pluses and minuses, I don't know that anyone has told you this... You never *really* know until you do it. There is truly no way to tell what is going to be your deepest reaction the first time you are in that uniform, looking in a mirror. But, man, I have loved every second of it. Like I said, I was raised in that environment, but there's nothing else I wish I would have done with my life. All the time away, missed holidays, shitty injuries (malaria and TB, to boot, damn it!), stupid schools, it's all worth it in the end.

So good luck and go kick ass, either way.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement. I do appreciate them. We will see where it goes from here.

No worries on a misread. I'm just bringing it because like I said, I'm trying to make sure you don't get screwed over. Or make a 6-year mistake.

Sounds like you're good to go, though.

Regardless of what you say, it is a business deal with every person that signs up. You both bring something to the table and agree or disagree to the terms and you live with the consequences.

Touche here, but, as we both point out, life sometimes becomes frustrating when the only time you have *any* leverage is back when you were at the table, which is why you were spot on about this:

There is nothing wrong with trying to get the best deal possible, since as you stated before....they "wring every cent they invested in a professional".

Still gotta look out for #1, because they'll definitely get theirs.

Good for you that you know a recruiter. That will hopefully eliminate the frequent single point of failure in this process. If not for this benefit, you might likely get shitty/incomplete/misleading information, because many recruiters are out to make a bonus off of you, and many others are not interested at all in *you*, because you are not a 17 year-old girl.

Thanks. Definitely have to get everything you can at the outset, otherwise you will be kicking yourself later. Having the recruiter actually being upfront and kinda on my side is refreshing.

If I can, the game plan we set out for is as follows:

*Get it in writing that they will pay off remaining balance on my current student loans, or as much as possible
*Basic Training
*Trad NG OCS over 18 months, going to OCS on drill weekend
*Finish any remaining prereqs for IPAP during 18 month OCS period
*Apply to IPAP program and get accepted

I spoke to him today and he's hammering out details on what bonuses I qualify for. Loan repayment is looking pretty good at this point. Fingers are crossed that it continues to go well. Gods know that this shit can change but that is the ideal game plan.

Thanks again for your advice.

What happens if you don't get IPAP first go around? You would be a commissioned officer so would they utilize you in some other role? I mean financially if you can go that route and get previous loans paid off as well as school paid for than that sounds pretty solid, but the trade off as far as I understand would be that IPAP is not a sure thing. Versus HPSP scholarship which would be for if you were training civilian and would pay for school and have you come in after school as a PA directly but would not pay for previous loans? And I have no idea how the commitment for the two options differs...

Sounds like you are plugged in and on the right track though. God speed :)

Dirt's reasoning is why when I was told by multiple sources in the military that I could get in but would never get no where near what I wanted to do (75th Infantry to SF to what Trooper did.) or any combat arms ( I would have been willing to be a Mech Infantry Grunt, drive a tank- Monster trucking on Roids!, grinding Jawas under treads would make my dick hard! or play with big fucking cannons) I did not enlist.

I'd only see combat as a enlisted intel weenie (the 2nd recruiter kept pushing that at me.) clerk, jerk, truck loader POG and be in the company of guys who did not joint to be warriors and kill the enemy, but guys who thought it was a decent job opportunity. I don't have what it takes to be in the medical corps, God bless them.

God bless support, no warrior can do their thing without them but if I can't be on the football team, fuck being the water boy and having all the chicken shit of the military with none of what made it look good for me.

Good on you Dunn for looking at it at this age.