IGX

CZs are excellent guns. I like the DA/SA option.

stanley_white wrote:A handgun is generally a defensive weapon.

A handgun is best used to fight your way to a rifle.

Or, as my friend that is a retired LEO and now is runs part of the academy says:

The three rules of a gunfight
(1) Bring a gun
(2) Bring a bigger gun
(3) Bring all your friends with guns

HK all the way......

USP 45. Is the shit

Gonna carry concealed, then maybe the compact.

Save your bread, though.....pretty sure over $600

Gunbroker.com

In South Africa I used to have Norinco 9mm Para. Very basic and quite powerful. The best way to choose a gun is to talk to the guys at shops and firing ranges and try hold as many as you can. Also, depends on your purposes. If it's just for home you gen get something powerful and big, for carrying around - something smaller. Not sure about the States, but in South Africa carrying a gun was not a good idea: guns were the reason people got robbed and killed. Sure concealed, but someone with minimal exposure to guns can easily figure out if you're carrying. Guns also require attention. If your discipline is not great and you're not likely to clean it every couple of weeks Glocks are a great choice for their reliability.

Crime and street aside, shooting a gun at the range is a great relaxing pastime.

I think you already identified the two most important issues to a consumer, generally, ergonomics and the trigger.

For me, especially if it's a gun I am going to carry or compete with, the only two things I am really concerned about are POA/POI (usually I am changing sights, so this is not so important stock, but I am pretty particular about this) and getting the best trigger for the money (or, again, how 'configurable' it is).

IMHO, 1911s provide the best triggers off the shelf. Some of the striker-fired guns have awful, long, mushy trigger pulls. Guns in the "double action service pistol" category are not acceptable, and not even worth discussing as an option if I am spending my own money. The Glock's trigger is certainly not good, but it is easy for even a newbie to put in a new connector and do some smoothing on a trigger bar and find something decent with the characteristics they like.

I don't own one, but I have shot a couple of Rock Island match 1911s that had triggers almost as nice as an Ed Brown and Dan Wesson I had at the range the same day. For plinking/occasional carrying, etc. there certainly wasn't enough difference to justify $2,000 difference in cost.

If you like 1911s, but are worried about the reliability of one you can get for under $600, look at an M&P. (Even at higher prices, you might have to return a 1911 for repairs.) They feel more like a 1911 than any of the other polymer pistols, especially with the thumb safety. In 9mm, you'll also save money on ammo. The downside is the trigger.

But do what Johno said and go shoot stuff before you buy. And take a safety course first.

Smet wrote:The best way to choose a gun is to talk to the guys at shops and firing ranges and try hold as many as you can.

I advise not believing a single word the gun store clerks say. Ergonomics, by that I mean how the pistol "points," are overrated. Use the sights and don't worry too much about how the pistol "feels" in your hand.

For example, a lot of people will say Glocks don't point well. I say that, too. But that's because I'm used to a pistol with a different grip angle. If all I shot were Glocks, it wouldn't be a problem. I'd adapt. The only problem comes when you try to switch from a M&P to a Glock. The Glock may point (or "index") a little high until you correct it, but you should be using your sights anyway.

The interchangeable backstrap that you find on a lot of modern pistols alleviates the too big/too small complaints.

I do like a good trigger. The CZ DA/SA trigger is nice with a little bit of work.

Smet wrote: Not sure about the States, but in South Africa carrying a gun was not a good idea: guns were the reason people got robbed and killed. Sure concealed, but someone with minimal exposure to guns can easily figure out if you're carrying.

I carry a gun concealed. I'm confident that with a little care and attention, no one knows that I'm carrying. My trick is that I use an Inside the Waistband holster that allows me to tuck in a shirt. Smart dress shirt, nice slacks = both me and my pistol are practically invisible (in the areas I work).

I advise against the untucked, plaid (because plaid breaks up the outline better than a solid color) North Face shirt, cargo pants, Merrell shoes. To my trained eye, yes, that screams plainclothes cop (especially two dudes together).

Smet wrote: Guns also require attention. If your discipline is not great and you're not likely to clean it every couple of weeks Glocks are a great choice for their reliability.

Maybe your Chinese Norinco needed constant attention, but most popular mid-range modern pistols are more or less carefree. Keep them lubed and they will run. Keep a round count and change the springs when you are supposed to and you won't have problems.

(the 1911 would be a exception. Saturday Night Specials are the exception. Really small pistols - Ruger LCP, Keltec, etc - are also exceptions. Those can be finicky.)

Opinions are like assholes. Almost any "name" handgun will do. Any caliber over .380ACP will do.

Get some instruction and go out and shoot a bunch of different handguns. Then make a decision based on what HG you are a better shot with. I own a Diamond back 9mm, a Ruger redhawk .45LC, a 1911, a CZ75, a Glock 19 and a Glock 21. While I love my 1911 and the CZ75. The Glock's are just better firearms and are what I carry when in "Tacital" mode. Most of the time I carry a pocket Diamond Back 9mm. My love of Glock has gone up so much that I plan on buying a Glock 22 and a Browning HP in .40 cal. I'm weird like that; I like to own a modern HG with a retro HG.

As for printing or revealing that you have a HG concealed. Wear proper fitting clothes, wear a proper belt/holster and don't fidget or fuck with the hand gun. The number one tell for carrying a HG is touching the damn thing all the time.

I have a wide variety of plastic 9s - Glock 17/34, M&P Pro Core 9, HK P30L LEM, the new striker-fired Sig (a gift - it's got a nice trigger but the balance is awkward and Sigs never feel right to me).

My favorite handgun is still, by far, my Wilson Combat aluminum-frame 9mm 1911. Which it should be, because it cost approximately as much as all the rest of those combined. The 1911 remains an ergonomic marvel to me - big hands, little hands, a 1911 just seems to work. (assuming you're okay with five-to-seven fewer rounds than the competition and more maintenance - though quality 1911s haven't been all that much work for me aside from replacing the recoil spring every 3k or so. I don't clean Wilsons/Nighthawks/Browns any more than I do Glocks - which is to say, almost never.)

What I'm most interested in finding now is the HK VP9 - essentially a striker-fired P30.

I've owned a lot of handguns. At the end of the day, I still prefer a Smith K-frame. Doesn't mean I wouldn't use something else, I just prefer the K-frame overall.

YOU GUYS ARE ALL REAL CRIMINALS!!!!!

When Ray Rice beat his wife unconscious in an elevator, New Jersey Superior Court Judge Michael Donio and New Jersey District Attorney Jim McClain agreed to put him in a diversion program for 1st-time offenders to keep him out of jail. But when Pennsylvania single mom Shaneen Allen was pulled over for a traffic violation and volunteered to a New Jersey police officer that she was carrying a legally-owned handgun with a Pennsylvania permit, the response of Donis and McClain was to deny her the same opportunity as Rice.

Allen lives in Philadelphia, right across the river from New Jersey. She has a Pennsylvania permit to carry a handgun. She thought it was recognized in New Jersey, just as it is recognized in over 30 other states. She was wrong. When she told the officer that she had the gun, she was arrested.

Now she faces a felony conviction and a mandatory 42 months in prison.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /13862831/

I feel sorry for that lady - clearly, whatever course she took to get her carry permit didn't do right by her... http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html

Boris wrote:I feel sorry for that lady - clearly, whatever course she took to get her carry permit didn't do right by her... http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html

Pretty sure PA considers safety training socialism that will lead to the confiscation of all guns. Give people their constitutionally-mandated guns and inform them of the consequences of breaking gun laws during sentencing.

Turdacious wrote:YOU GUYS ARE ALL REAL CRIMINALS!!!!!

When Ray Rice beat his wife unconscious in an elevator, New Jersey Superior Court Judge Michael Donio and New Jersey District Attorney Jim McClain agreed to put him in a diversion program for 1st-time offenders to keep him out of jail. But when Pennsylvania single mom Shaneen Allen was pulled over for a traffic violation and volunteered to a New Jersey police officer that she was carrying a legally-owned handgun with a Pennsylvania permit, the response of Donis and McClain was to deny her the same opportunity as Rice.

Allen lives in Philadelphia, right across the river from New Jersey. She has a Pennsylvania permit to carry a handgun. She thought it was recognized in New Jersey, just as it is recognized in over 30 other states. She was wrong. When she told the officer that she had the gun, she was arrested.

Now she faces a felony conviction and a mandatory 42 months in prison.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2 ... /13862831/

Fuck New Jersey. It shouldn't even be in the United States.

Grandpa's Spells wrote:

Boris wrote:I feel sorry for that lady - clearly, whatever course she took to get her carry permit didn't do right by her... http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry ... _maps.html

Pretty sure PA considers safety training socialism that will lead to the confiscation of all guns. Give people their constitutionally-mandated guns and inform them of the consequences of breaking gun laws during sentencing.

As soon as I've seen the track record of success for other government-sponsored safety classes on how to safely assemble in public, pick the right church, and assisting women voters I'll get on board the mandatory gun safety train. Who knew exercising Constitutional freedoms could be so confusing? Until then it's anti-Jesus, gun-grabbing Bolshevism, I'm afraid. Also, Hitler.

Follow-up - still haven't decided, but I'll probably end up w. a Springfield XDS 9mm, or a S&W M&P Shield 9mm.

Boris wrote:Follow-up - still haven't decided, but I'll probably end up w. a Springfield XDS 9mm, or a S&W M&P Shield 9mm.

If those pistols are in your wheelhouse, also check out a Beretta Nano, a Glock 26, a Ruger LC9, and the Kel-Tec PF 9. All of a similar size & same caliber.

If you're not going to carry it often, why not go with a larger pistol from the same lines?

Thank you Johno. The XDS and Shield seem to fit best, but I'll take another look at those. The Glock felt thick for a waistband, but I'll take another look at it especially.

I've thought about it Pinky, but if I decide to carry at all outside of a range, it won't be open.

Boris, the Glock is almost 1/4" thicker, but that probably doesn't matter unless you carry inside the waistband with your shirt tucked over it. Then it creates a more noticeable bulge on your belt line. IME, it's the overall height of the pistol that is the primary factor in a pistol "printing" under a shirt.

PS - Pinky is correct, that a larger pistol will be much more fun to shoot. If you go with the compact pistol, definitely consider a .22 for fun & marksmanship.

johno wrote: IME, it's the overall height of the pistol that is the primary factor in a pistol "printing" under a shirt.

The type of shirt and color / pattern make a big difference too. In my experience the busier the pattern and lighter the color on a shirt the better job it does concealing the handgun.

-Stan

I wouldn't exactly call it an in depth article, but some of your options are reviewed here.

http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carr ... -challenge

j-cubed wrote:I wouldn't exactly call it an in depth article, but some of your options are reviewed here.

http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carr ... -challenge

Thank you for this.

I ended up w. a Springfield XDm 9mm compact. If people are interested, I'll try to write up some kind of review later though it would be the opinions/ramblings of an almost total handgun newb.

Boris wrote:

j-cubed wrote:I wouldn't exactly call it an in depth article, but some of your options are reviewed here.

http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carr ... -challenge

Thank you for this.

I ended up w. a Springfield XDm 9mm compact. If people are interested, I'll try to write up some kind of review later though it would be the opinions/ramblings of an almost total handgun newb.

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Well, I have a Glock, which I seldom use in target shooting. Feels blocky in my hand.

I like my S&W Police special, revolver, four inch barrel. I like shooting it, never jams, and I'm more accurate with it than the Glock. It's the one I have close by, just in case...