Active Measures (HULU)

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 pm

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/acti ... 202915093/

Trump, famously, was up to his eyeballs in debt, and since he’d filed for bankruptcy half a dozen times, American banks wanted nothing to do with him. All those loans had been his financial Viagra; now they’d dried up. But that’s what made him the perfect mark for the Russians. According to the movie, Trump would never have found his way back had it not been for the flow of cash from the Russian underworld.

Has anyone seen this? It's a documentary that came out just a few days ago that purports to provide the deets on what, exactly, is Donald Trump's relationship to the Russians.

It focuses on money laundering, and how there was reciprocity between Russian mobsters tied to Putin and Trump; they helped him with his debt by overpaying for properties they had no use for, and he helped them launder their money and keep it from sanctioning bodies.

I watched half last night before I had to go to sleep, and will finish it tonight. I was curious if anyone else is into it and what they thought.

Bram · Post by **Bram** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:50 am

Looks good.

SubClaw · Post by **SubClaw** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am

I think Trump is a corrupt asshole (like any other politician at any side of the bench) and I really despise him. But...

I’m finding curioser and curioser these endless media campaigns, almost a Crusade, coming from everywhere (including his own party). And thing is, this is all coming from the same media that are trying to cram radical beliefs down our collective necks:

- It’s okay to say “all men are rapists”, but God forbid someone says “where are all the women asking for parity quotas working as a miner?”

- It’s okay to say “I’m proud to be black”, but God forbid someone says he’s proud to be white.

- It’s okay to say “I hate cis-people”, but God forbid someone says he doesn’t like transgenders.

- It’s okay to have a black actor playing Julius Caesar, Achilles or Heimdall, but God forbid someone says he would like to see a male playing Joan of Arc or Ryan Gosling playing the main role in a Mandela biopic.

- It’s okay to ridicule all things Christian, but God forbid someone says against muslim beliefs.

Etc, etc, etc...

No, I don’t like Trump a bit, but when all the media that is feeding all that Demolition Man bullshit seem to be conspiring against him non-stop, makes me wonder why.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:22 am

The whole Trump/Russian financial bailout for a dude who has been bankrupt a bunch of times (only a moron lends money to such a person) has been hiding in plain sight this whole time. It’s not a secret, people just choose to look the other way.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 pm

SubClaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am I’m finding curioser and curioser these endless media campaigns, almost a Crusade, coming from everywhere (including his own party).
...when all the media that is feeding all that Demolition Man bullshit seem to be conspiring against him non-stop, makes me wonder why.

Um. Because there's SO MUCH incompetence and sleaze and criminality? I mean, Mueller's rung up 20 indictments, but the media is making this up? That doesn't compute.

SubClaw · Post by **SubClaw** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:21 pm

JimZipCode wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:18 pm
SubClaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am I’m finding curioser and curioser these endless media campaigns, almost a Crusade, coming from everywhere (including his own party).
...when all the media that is feeding all that Demolition Man bullshit seem to be conspiring against him non-stop, makes me wonder why.
Um. Because there's SO MUCH incompetence and sleaze and criminality? I mean, Mueller's rung up 20 indictments, but the media is making this up? That doesn't compute.

Trump (and his crew) are incompetent, stupid and, quite possibly, criminals too.

But I still find it curious that everyone out there (including those on Trump’s side of the bench) seem to be on a personal Crusade to remove him from power, because “people voted wrong”.

There’s a distinct “let’s get rid of him and allow people to get it right this time” smell in the air. If you catch my drift.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:29 pm

But I still find it curious that everyone out there (including those on Trump’s side of the bench) seem to be on a personal Crusade to remove him from power, because “people voted wrong”.

I think they are assuming that if people actually knew he had a conflict of interest in dealing with Russia (our major strategic frenemy) due to Russian oligarch money being used to bail him out of his serial bankruptcies, that they would care about it. And so they keep waiting for the light to come on.

But I don't think the Trump voters care at all, for reasons that are nothing but sad.

johno · Post by **johno** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pm

I find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:40 pm

It's because his are getting squeezed. He's sharing the grope.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 pm

SubClaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am I think Trump is a corrupt asshole (like any other politician at any side of the bench) and I really despise him. But...

I’m finding curioser and curioser these endless media campaigns, almost a Crusade, coming from everywhere (including his own party). And thing is, this is all coming from the same media that are trying to cram radical beliefs down our collective necks:

- It’s okay to say “all men are rapists”, but God forbid someone says “where are all the women asking for parity quotas working as a miner?”

- It’s okay to say “I’m proud to be black”, but God forbid someone says he’s proud to be white.

- It’s okay to say “I hate cis-people”, but God forbid someone says he doesn’t like transgenders.

- It’s okay to have a black actor playing Julius Caesar, Achilles or Heimdall, but God forbid someone says he would like to see a male playing Joan of Arc or Ryan Gosling playing the main role in a Mandela biopic.

- It’s okay to ridicule all things Christian, but God forbid someone says against muslim beliefs.

Etc, etc, etc...

No, I don’t like Trump a bit, but when all the media that is feeding all that Demolition Man bullshit seem to be conspiring against him non-stop, makes me wonder why.

I agree with a quite a bit of all that, and I think that only a fool doesn't see that the media is broadly out to destroy the Trump presidency. That said, this documentary talks about specific instances where Trump has worked with Kremlin-controlled organized crime figures to launder money for Putin, his oligarchs, and the mobsters themselves in exchange for debt relief. If that's the case, then it also demonstrates the handle that Putin personally has on Trump, and makes the case for a type of collusion.

Now, if that's true, and it's a big (but well substantiated) if, Trump should swing. I'm totally clear on one thing, which is that if you act on behalf of another country and counter to the interests of your own, whether out of personal conviction or greed, or whatever, you need to die a traitor's death.

Fat Cat · Post by **Fat Cat** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:18 pm

johno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pm I find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.

It's not curious at all if the allegations are true. He's compromising between the institutional weight of American government and traditional hostility to Russia on the one hand and the need to satisfy his Slavic overlord on the other hand. And the Russians would know that if they try to overplay their hand, their mole gets exposed, and they lose everything.

This is all theoretical, of course. But I don't agree that it's contradictory.

JimZipCode · Post by **JimZipCode** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 pm

johno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pmI find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.

How is Trump doing that? I see Congress doing stuff, and forcing Trump's hand. I don't see Trump initiating any ball-squeezing.

(But I also don't pay quite as much attention, since football season started.)

Yes I Have Balls · Post by **Yes I Have Balls** » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:59 pm

SubClaw wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:01 am I think Trump is a corrupt asshole (like any other politician at any side of the bench) and I really despise him. But...

I’m finding curioser and curioser these endless media campaigns, almost a Crusade, coming from everywhere (including his own party). And thing is, this is all coming from the same media that are trying to cram radical beliefs down our collective necks:

- It’s okay to say “all men are rapists”, but God forbid someone says “where are all the women asking for parity quotas working as a miner?”

- It’s okay to say “I’m proud to be black”, but God forbid someone says he’s proud to be white.

- It’s okay to say “I hate cis-people”, but God forbid someone says he doesn’t like transgenders.

- It’s okay to have a black actor playing Julius Caesar, Achilles or Heimdall, but God forbid someone says he would like to see a male playing Joan of Arc or Ryan Gosling playing the main role in a Mandela biopic.

- It’s okay to ridicule all things Christian, but God forbid someone says against muslim beliefs.

Etc, etc, etc...

No, I don’t like Trump a bit, but when all the media that is feeding all that Demolition Man bullshit seem to be conspiring against him non-stop, makes me wonder why.

:blink: :blink:

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:02 am

JimZipCode wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 pm
johno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pmI find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.
How is Trump doing that? I see Congress doing stuff, and forcing Trump's hand. I don't see Trump initiating any ball-squeezing.

(But I also don't pay quite as much attention, since football season started.)

As potus he has the ability to not enforce those dictates in a lot of ways— far more than he has done.

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:54 am

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:01 am

JimZipCode wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 pm
johno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pmI find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.
How is Trump doing that? I see Congress doing stuff, and forcing Trump's hand. I don't see Trump initiating any ball-squeezing.

First and foremost, Trump is balls-to-the-wall on US energy production. Russian economic power is dependent on oil production and this weakens it.
Second, Trump has turned his back on the Paris Climate Accord. See point #1.
Third, Trump publicly chided Germany's Merkel for her proposed oil pipeline with Russian. See point #1.
Third, Trump is goosing NATO members to accelerate their defense expenditures.
Fourth, Trump is positioning (or threatening to position) anti-missile defenses in Poland.*
Fifth, 200 dead Russian mercenaries in Syria.
Sixth, speaking of Syria, Trump has pressured Assad (Russia's boy) more than Red Line Obama ever dreamed.

Edit:

* Now, ripped from today's headlines: FORT TRUMP!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1LY2NJ

nafod · Post by **nafod** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:56 am

johno wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:01 am
JimZipCode wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 pm
johno wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:31 pmI find it curious that a puppet of the Kremlin would be squeezing Russia's balls in so many ways. And twisting.
How is Trump doing that? I see Congress doing stuff, and forcing Trump's hand. I don't see Trump initiating any ball-squeezing.

First and foremost, Trump is balls-to-the-wall on US energy production. Russian economic power is dependent on oil production and this weakens it.
Second, Trump has turned his back on the Paris Climate Accord. See point #1.
Third, Trump publicly chided Germany's Merkel for her proposed oil pipeline with Russian. See point #1.
Third, Trump is goosing NATO members to accelerate their defense expenditures.
Fourth, Trump is positioning (or threatening to position) anti-missile defenses in Poland.*
Fifth, 200 dead Russian mercenaries in Syria.
Sixth, speaking of Syria, Trump has pressured Assad (Russia's boy) more than Red Line Obama ever dreamed.

Edit:

* Now, ripped from today's headlines: FORT TRUMP!

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1LY2NJ

The Paris climate accord emphasized moving to renewables and away from fossil fuels, and would therefore weaken any fossil fuel-based power. Like Russia. Let them eat their oil.

Trump hates NATO, that’s not a secret. He isn’t pressuring them to raise their expenditures to fight off the Russian hordes, he is doing it because he is short-sighted.

Russia is obviously looking to pull a Crimea on the uppity Baltic republics in their near abroad. Again, not a secret. They are NATO members and we have a mutual defense pact with them.

Thank Mattis for being the adult in the room.

Polish President Andrzej Duda asked Trump for a permanent U.S. base during a White House meeting, offering to name it “Fort Trump,”

Polish guy knows what levers to pull on the orange-headed one.

Turdacious · Post by **Turdacious** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:47 pm

Any American male who would rather be stationed at a desert oasis like Arifjan over Poland's Fort Trump has problems.

johno · Post by **johno** » Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:05 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:56 am The Paris climate accord emphasized moving to renewables and away from fossil fuels, and would therefore weaken any fossil fuel-based power. Like Russia. Let them eat their oil.

Trump hates NATO, that’s not a secret. He isn’t pressuring them to raise their expenditures to fight off the Russian hordes, he is doing it because ...

So we agree: Trump's ACTIONS are twisting Russia's nut sack.

As to his emotions or wishes, who can say? He is the first President who so openly plays Good Cop/Bad Cop. Sometimes simultaneously.

IGX

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