IGX

He was always going to be acquitted.

What is on trial now is the power that the President has. His defense has argued that he basically can't do anything impeachable, and that is the reason for acquitting him, having given up on the "He didn't do it" defense. If that is the understanding that comes out of this, then that is a pretty bad thing.

What should happen now is he gets censured, or something that resembles a legislative bitch slap. But it appears the Repubs are bound and determined to give up the legislature's authority over the executive.

Boggles my mind. If as they are unable to anticipate a future Dem President.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:54 pm If as they are unable to anticipate a future Dem President.

This is a great point and one that really sticks. So many things that they did to Clinton are now being done to them. The distance vision in Washington is exceptionally poor.

Warren says she wants 'young trans person' to interview, approve her Education Secretary pick

https://www.foxnews.com/media/elizabeth ... ans-person

She's not really trying to win this, is she?

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:54 pmHis defense has argued that he basically can't do anything impeachable, and that is the reason for acquitting him, having given up on the "He didn't do it" defense.

Almost. The defense is, "When the President's actions benefit BOTH the country AND his political future, then such action is proper."

Politicians often politically benefit by actions that they do under the flag of the common good. Imagine the mind-reading fuckery that would result if there could be no overlap. It would look a lot like this impeachment.

*****

As to the specifics, many Americans like to see self-dealing, nepotism, and possible criminality exposed. And being a former VP or a current presidential candidate shouldn't immunize any citizen from investigation. (Being a candidate/President certainly didn't immunize Trump from investigation.)

Trump never asked for an investigation of Biden. He asked Ukraine to announce one.

Just like he announced an investigation of Obama's birthplace.

"I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding ...

Who are those people and what were they finding? Yeah, we both know. It was all bullshit.

Same with Ukraine.

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:13 pm Trump never asked for an investigation of Biden. He asked Ukraine to announce one.

Just like he announced an investigation of Obama's birthplace.

"I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding ...

Who are those people and what were they finding? Yeah, we both know. It was all bullshit.

Same with Ukraine.

That's laughable hairsplitting. You know that Hunter Biden was a product of corruption, so why fight the truth?

nafod wrote: ↑Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:13 pm Trump never asked for an investigation of Biden. He asked Ukraine to announce one.

From the transcript of the July 25 call:

"There's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that, so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution, so if you can look into it.... It sounds horrible to me."*

That sounds like a request to investigate to me. But so what if Trump also wanted Zelenskiy to announce the investigation? That's a public commitment to investigate.



*https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/read-tr ... d=65849015

johno wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 am "There's a lot of talk about Biden's son...

Oh really? Direct echoes of

"I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding ...

It's just Trump spewing his BS.

Why did he never mention corruption in the call? Why did he cancel the request to announce an investigation? I thought he cared about corruption. Why did he not investigate this 2016-2018? Why did he have his personal lawyer and his lawyer's excellent henchman, Parnas working this instead of, Oh, say the DOJ or the FBI? Why weren't they investigating? Why would you ask a country you are constantly saying is incredibly corrupt, to conduct an investigation into corruption?

Come on, Johno. We both know what was going on here, it's obvious beyond obvious. It's the Trumpian play. Lamar Alexander knew it too, in his tweet about why he wasn't going to ask for witnesses. Of course it was proven beyond a doubt. That horse left the barn. Lamar is just saying, "So what?"

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 pm We both know what was going on here, it's obvious beyond obvious.

I think you're mired in "Orange Man Bad" confirmation bias. And I question your apparent superpower to mind read the President.

Back to the governing principle: "When the President's actions benefit BOTH the country AND his political future, then such action is not impeachable."

1 - Was Trump elected (partially) on the promise to Drain the Swamp? Yes.

2 - Does the Joe-Hunter Biden Ukraine nepotism reek of swamp stench? Yes.

3 - Is investigating the Biden deal of interest to the public? Yes. It's of even more interest to reveal possible corruption of a presidential candidate.

Does it matter that Trump would also benefit politically? Not for impeachment purposes. Fight it out in the next election.

johno wrote: ↑Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:19 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 pm We both know what was going on here, it's obvious beyond obvious.

And I question your apparent superpower to mind read the President.

It’s not hard. Saw this great quote

“When you get inside Donald Trump’s head you’ll find putter, a cheeseburger, a porn video and somebody else’s credit card”

Lamar Alexander knows what is what

LAMAR ALEXANDER: If the president was upset with what the Bidens were doing in Ukraine, he should've called the attorney general

CHUCK TODD: Why didn't he then?

ALEXANDER: Maybe he didn't know to do it

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 pm

johno wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 am "There's a lot of talk about Biden's son...

Oh really? Direct echoes of

"I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding ...

It's just Trump spewing his BS.

Why did he never mention corruption in the call? Why did he cancel the request to announce an investigation? I thought he cared about corruption. Why did he not investigate this 2016-2018? Why did he have his personal lawyer and his lawyer's excellent henchman, Parnas working this instead of, Oh, say the DOJ or the FBI? Why weren't they investigating? Why would you ask a country you are constantly saying is incredibly corrupt, to conduct an investigation into corruption?

Come on, Johno. We both know what was going on here, it's obvious beyond obvious. It's the Trumpian play. Lamar Alexander knew it too, in his tweet about why he wasn't going to ask for witnesses. Of course it was proven beyond a doubt. That horse left the barn. Lamar is just saying, "So what?"

Turdacious wrote: ↑Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:15 am

nafod wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:09 pm

johno wrote: ↑Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:14 am "There's a lot of talk about Biden's son...

Oh really? Direct echoes of

"I have people that have been studying [Obama's birth certificate] and they cannot believe what they're finding ...

It's just Trump spewing his BS.

Why did he never mention corruption in the call? Why did he cancel the request to announce an investigation? I thought he cared about corruption. Why did he not investigate this 2016-2018? Why did he have his personal lawyer and his lawyer's excellent henchman, Parnas working this instead of, Oh, say the DOJ or the FBI? Why weren't they investigating? Why would you ask a country you are constantly saying is incredibly corrupt, to conduct an investigation into corruption?

Come on, Johno. We both know what was going on here, it's obvious beyond obvious. It's the Trumpian play. Lamar Alexander knew it too, in his tweet about why he wasn't going to ask for witnesses. Of course it was proven beyond a doubt. That horse left the barn. Lamar is just saying, "So what?"

I truly get the rage, I had it myself from 2009-2017. The facts of what the Joe & Hunter dynamic duo did are indisputable. Was what they did proven illegal? No, of course not, because it's never been investigated and it will never be because there are too many similar skeletons in Senate closets. While not necessarily illegal J&H were corrupt, but not beyond the pale of usual gov't corruption. I'd love to see the Democrat Media Complex put some of their energies into corruption investigations of both parties - but they won't because their political buddies would get hurt - and it could harm their journalistic careers.

Trump's motives were undoubtedly scummy, but appearing to ferret out corruption prior to releasing a ton of foreign aid gives him a defendable fig leaf. Was it bad, probably. Was it worse than the Gulf to Tonkin, lying under oath and suborning the perjury of others, or giving the world's top supporter of terrorism, pallets of billions of dollars of untraceable cash, no it wasn't.

Trump skates on this as he should. November is literally around the corner. The Dems can defeat him then if they can.

Good poast. Thus spake Donkeythustra.

I truly get the rage, I had it myself from 2009-2017.

s up until 2016 I always voted republican, and generally sided with them. Mi familia, even when there were disputes. To watch them embrace a uniquely corrupt figure such as Trump is different from the Dems doing something I don’t like. I’ve been there, seen that billion times. This isn’t that.

The facts of what the Joe & Hunter dynamic duo did are indisputable.

Actually, no.

Nothing has been put forward pointing out anything Uncle Joe did wrong, backed by any facts. Just noise from the fever swamps. No DOJ investigation, nothing. Did Hunter use his dad’s name? Make him look bad? Ah-yup. But he’s his own corrupt thing. His dad never brought him into his administration.

Speaking of corrupt children x3...pretty sure Ivanka actually works in the WH.

Trump was ordered to dissolve the Trump Organization, run by him and his family, when the New York Attorney General’s office accused them of using the charity’s funds to skirt campaign finance laws and support his 2016 campaign...

Mr. Trump’s three children who were officers of the foundation — Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and Ivanka Trump — were ordered to undergo mandatory training to ensure they do not engage in similar misconduct in the future.

They needed training to know that abusing a charity was wrong. WT-Fuckity-F?

The poverty of low expectations.

Well you must be a huge dumbass if you voted for Bush twice and think Trump is worse. There's about 5,000 dead Americans who would like their lives back.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:26 amActually, no.

Nothing has been put forward pointing out anything Uncle Joe did wrong, backed by any facts. Just noise from the fever swamps. No DOJ investigation, nothing. Did Hunter use his dad’s name? Make him look bad? Ah-yup. But he’s his own corrupt thing. His dad never brought him into his administration.

I have twice posted articles that substantiate how Biden peddled influence to enrich not just Hunter but five relatives.

April 15, 2014: Burisma sends Hunter Biden's business partner, Devon Archer, $112,000.

April 16, 2014: Archer visits Vice President Biden at the White House.

April 21, 2014: Vice President Biden arrives in Ukraine bearing millions in aid for the Ukraine energy industry.

May 12, 2014: Hunter Biden joins Burisma's board.

February 2015: Ukrainian authorities seize the property of Burisma's CEO and go after unpaid taxes.

March 2016: Biden demands that Ukraine's top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, be fired, and threatens to hold up $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees.


You wanted this. Enjoy.

Whoops. I'm sure nafod appreciates your efforts! In other news, what's going on in Iowa guys?

powerlifter54 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 4:32 pm April 15, 2014: Burisma sends Hunter Biden's business partner, Devon Archer, $112,000.

April 16, 2014: Archer visits Vice President Biden at the White House.

April 21, 2014: Vice President Biden arrives in Ukraine bearing millions in aid for the Ukraine energy industry.

May 12, 2014: Hunter Biden joins Burisma's board.

February 2015: Ukrainian authorities seize the property of Burisma's CEO and go after unpaid taxes.

March 2016: Biden demands that Ukraine's top prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, be fired, and threatens to hold up $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees.


You wanted this. Enjoy.

So where's are the hard proof? The emails, the videos, the documents, the smoking gun? The Igor Parnas with selfies and Instagrams? The multiple fact witnesses testifying under oath? Didn't the Repub house initiate an investigation during the 2 years they were in charge? An investigation initiated in 2016 would have had 3 years now to actually find something?

I thought Trump actually was concerned about corruption? While he was running a corrupt charity, of course.

They've had three years. More pours out about Trump every 3 days.

Jack is still waiting for the Benghazi shoe to drop and all those Democrats and FBI agents to get arrested.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:59 pm
So where's are the hard proof?

Maybe you've heard of this thing called an "investigation"? It's this thing that the Executive Branch is empowered to do. Or not do.

You guys are dodging the hard question: wtf is happening in Iowa?

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:59 pm So where's are the hard proof? The emails, the videos, the documents, the smoking gun? The Igor Parnas with selfies and Instagrams? The multiple fact witnesses testifying under oath? Didn't the Repub house initiate an investigation during the 2 years they were in charge? An investigation initiated in 2016 would have had 3 years now to actually find something?

I thought Trump actually was concerned about corruption? While he was running a corrupt charity, of course.

They've had three years. More pours out about Trump every 3 days.

Why let government investigators (an animal he may not understand or have confidence he can control) do the work when he can have the media (an animal he understands and has confidence he can manipulate) do it for free?

LMAO...this is BEFORE acquittal.