IGX

Turdacious wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:18 am

Schlegel wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:29 am FYI, I think qualified immunity needs to go. Police and politicians can do whatever they want and the taxpayers pay, never them. It is much too strong a protection. They'd tread more carefully if they had more personal risk.

The risk if that is you get more cautious police, possibly to the extreme we are seeing on Baltimore.

I believe that ship has now set sail.

OK, now tell me this isn't funny. Saw it on the internet.

"Canada must feel like they live in an apartment above a meth lab."

Beating up Aussie press:


Unprovked pepper spray on press:


Tear gas canister to face, guy loses an eye
https://wpta21.com/2020/05/31/fwpd-no-i ... ss-of-eye/

another gas canister to face

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 am

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:25 pm 27 killed, 92 shot in Chicago weekend gun violence: https://www.wifr.com/content/news/27-ki ... 21951.html

Protest when? Spells?

Really pathetic talking point. There are more "take back the night" protests after a rash of shootings than you can shake a stick at. I used to live in one of those neighborhoods, the events were kind of a pain in the ass, but they occur regularly. They are not covered in the media you consume. Also, state-sanctioned murder draws a bigger crowd.

It's a perfectly legitimate talking point although I know how hard it is to deal with hard numbers and metrics. It's particularly valuable because it highlights the towering hypocrisy of the left, that could care less about black lives if they don't advance the narrative of rampant police brutality. Twenty seven blacks dead in one city? *Yawn* Why? Because it was done at the hands of other blacks. But if one police officer commits an act of brutality, it is magnified by a manipulative media into a condemnation of law and order throughout the country. The fact of the matter is that if black lives matter, they are largely taken by other blacks, and in such decade-after-decade astonishing numbers that police brutality is a joke by comparison.

Also, you have no idea what media I consume.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 am Police murdering people of any race is bad. The people attacked in my earlier examples were, I believe, all white. Police killings have dropped somewhat in major metro areas, but are increasing in rural areas. So our rural friends should be every bit as concerned about this. I am struggling to understand how you process the killing of George Floyd.

I would process the killing of George Floyd like any other American, with a robust investigation of what happened and the individual officers' adherence to correct procedures. Then, I would punish the guilty and exonerate the innocent according to the law. What did you have in mind?

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 amPolice shouldn't murder helpless people, and when they do, they should be accountable, This isn't a radical position.

It's literally nobody's position. Pursue a less absurd line of argument. I understand that you are used to hyperventilating about democratic socialism with your gay, wine-bar liberal friends, but the way an honest discussion works is that you respond to things that were actually said, not what you wish was said.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 amFurther, I think using tear gas to disperse a peacefully assembled crowd to Trump can pose in front of a church he doesn't attend and hold up a Bible he doesn't read is extremely bad. Shooting reporters, bad. Attacking peaceful protesters, bad. This is all standard First Amendment stuff, has nothing to do with one's opinions on race, and our Second Amendment enthusiasts so far appear willing to lick the boots of the oppressors.

The first amendment does not preclude people from having to obtain permits for demonstrations, nor does it cover rioters burning and looting in the streets. The church, St. John's, was set on fire by those "peacefully assembled" demonstrators you champion--but don't join--now tell me, is that "extremely bad" too? Where is Benny when we need him to heap scorn.

The reality is that we should all want what's best for Americans, but what exactly is different about these race riots than the last race riots? What are these going to achieve? What do you offer that is even remotely new? White liberals aren't going to do anything for their (LOL) "allies". You never have.

STAY HOME! SAVE LIVES! LMAO!

In the long run, this will lead to more deaths of young black men at one another’s hands. Police will be less likely to do their job, for fear of being charged with crimes and having their lives ruined. More hard working people will realize their parents were right to flee the cities in the 60s and 70s. The tax base will leave again, and the perpetually aggrieved will stop saying white people are racist for gentrifying the cities, and go back to saying we’re racist because we’re leaving them.

The Ginger Beard Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:09 pm In the long run, this will lead to more deaths of young black men at one another’s hands. Police will be less likely to do their job, for fear of being charged with crimes and having their lives ruined. More hard working people will realize their parents were right to flee the cities in the 60s and 70s. The tax base will leave again, and the perpetually aggrieved will stop saying white people are racist for gentrifying the cities, and go back to saying we’re racist because we’re leaving them.

Whitey really is to blame. If only we had examined our privilege more closely things could have been different.

But if one police officer commits an act of brutality...

The police is an arm of the state. They work for us. That's the difference.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:15 pm

But if one police officer commits an act of brutality...

The police is an arm of the state. They work for us. That's the difference.

Wrong. There's one law and it applies to everyone.

Here's the code of ethics they took an oath to uphold. Word is bond.

MINNESOTA LAW ENFORCEMENT CODE OF ETHICS:

"As a Minnesota Law Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional rights of all to liberty, equality and justice.

I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all; maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn, or ridicule; develop self-restraint; and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Honest in thought and deed in both by personal and official life, I will be exemplary in obeying the laws of the land and the regulations of my department. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to me in my official capacity will be kept ever secret unless revelation is necessary in the performance of my duty.

I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings, prejudices, animosities or friendships to influence my decisions. With no compromise for crime and with relentless prosecution of criminals, I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear of favor, malice or ill will, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities.

I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service. I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession...law enforcement."

Los Angeles Police Chief Michel Moore said the death of George Floyd is on looters’ hands “as much” as the four Minneapolis police officers sacked over the incident — but quickly apologized for the remark that has since sparked calls for his firing.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/lapd-chie ... ers-hands/
That’s what this fire needs— more gasoline.

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:42 pm Here's the code of ethics they took an oath to uphold. Word is bond.

MINNESOTA LAW ENFORCEMENT CODE OF ETHICS:

"As a Minnesota Law Enforcement Officer, my fundamental duty is to serve mankind; to safeguard lives and property; to protect the innocent against deception, the weak against oppression or intimidation, and the peaceful against violence or disorder; and to respect the Constitutional rights of all to liberty, equality and justice.

I will keep my private life unsullied as an example to all; maintain courageous calm in the face of danger, scorn, or ridicule; develop self-restraint; and be constantly mindful of the welfare of others. Honest in thought and deed in both by personal and official life, I will be exemplary in obeying the laws of the land and the regulations of my department. Whatever I see or hear of a confidential nature or that is confided to me in my official capacity will be kept ever secret unless revelation is necessary in the performance of my duty.

I will never act officiously or permit personal feelings, prejudices, animosities or friendships to influence my decisions. With no compromise for crime and with relentless prosecution of criminals, I will enforce the law courteously and appropriately without fear of favor, malice or ill will, never employing unnecessary force or violence and never accepting gratuities.

I recognize the badge of my office as a symbol of public faith, and I accept it as a public trust to be held so long as I am true to the ethics of the police service. I will constantly strive to achieve these objectives and ideals, dedicating myself before God to my chosen profession...law enforcement."

LOL now it's code of ethics. Ah the shifting and uncertain sands of the liberal spirit. I thought we were talking laws, but consistency isn't convenient is it? Take a Midol and calm down Mary. I've already said the individual officer(s) should be investigated and held accountable if found in violation of the law and established police procedures.

Legally speaking, the Police have only the same right to deadly force to preserve life and limb that any citizen does. In practice, some animals are more equal than others.
It isn't right, but there it is. The Democratic politicians who control these cities (in some cases for generations) make the law, make the policies, and appoint the chiefs and bureaucrats. This is their result.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:59 pm LOL now it's code of ethics.

LOL you've never taken an oath for anything, have you?

nafod wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:00 pm

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:59 pm LOL now it's code of ethics.

LOL you've never taken an oath for anything, have you?

LMAO seething leftoid changes subject. Also, not true, it went like this:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America,
and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all."

But think pink, my anarcho-communist n0g-liberating friend, five cops have been shot and a U.S. Marshall has died as a result of the ghettoite chimpout you're defending. You may get your revolution yet: https://www.insider.com/george-floyd-pr ... ted-2020-6

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:08 pm But think pink, my anarcho-communist n0g-liberating friend,

Here's some more pinko fiends...

Police chiefs across the United States, many of whom have been pushing their officers to de-escalate tense situations and decrease their use of force, responded with disgust Wednesday to the death of George Floyd after an encounter with Minneapolis officers and moved to reassure their communities that they would not tolerate such brutality.

In years past, police officials probably would have called for full, time-consuming investigations and patience from angry citizens until all the facts were in. Not this time.

Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo fired four officers within 24 hours, and the heads of the International Association of Chiefs of Police and the Major Cities Chiefs Association promptly issued statements of support for that move and denounced the prolonged suffocation of Floyd captured on cellphone video and soon streamed around the world.

You actually think that police chiefs eschewing thorough investigation of a possible crime is a good thing? I'm gonna remember this next time you're crying your eyes out for some Laquan or Shaundica.

The Ginger Beard Man wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:09 pm In the long run, this will lead to more deaths of young black men at one another’s hands. Police will be less likely to do their job, for fear of being charged with crimes and having their lives ruined. More hard working people will realize their parents were right to flee the cities in the 60s and 70s. The tax base will leave again, and the perpetually aggrieved will stop saying white people are racist for gentrifying the cities, and go back to saying we’re racist because we’re leaving them.

*sad laugh

Woooooo black liberation! Stick it to the man, nafod!

St. Louis police captain killed by looters at pawn shop: report

https://www.foxnews.com/us/st-louis-pol ... hop-report

Power to the burning little people!

Richmond, Virginia, Police Chief Will Smith choked back tears during a press conference in describing how rioters torched a home with a child inside and then blocked firefighters from responding.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... 6sBHC7OBY4

Honest question, and board politics aside, how close do you guys think this is to a full blown battle between Trump's supporters that he's supposedly "hinted" at using their second amendment rights to help fight back the hordes and BLM/Antifa/Militant Left?
I could see a few far right militia types "coming to the rescue" and things getting very out of hand over several cities in a big hurry. Thankfully we haven't had any vigilantes trying to stop the riots yet (that I know of).

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:22 pm Honest question, and board politics aside, how close do you guys think this is to a full blown battle between Trump's supporters that he's supposedly "hinted" at using their second amendment rights to help fight back the hordes and BLM/Antifa/Militant Left?
I could see a few far right militia types "coming to the rescue" and things getting very out of hand over several cities in a big hurry. Thankfully we haven't had any vigilantes trying to stop the riots yet (that I know of).

On a large scale? Not very close. Most of the big issues are happening in big cities. Like here in Los Angeles, it's all in the downtowns and bigger outskirt cities. No one there is MAGA and none of the MAGA are driving into the city to stop it. They don't care that much. They mostly see it as liberals getting what they deserve.

Maybe they'll start busing into DC but I doubt it.

In the smaller suburbs, it's a different vibe. In my city, the old school mexican gang members are out in force to make sure any protest stays peaceful. They are going to kick the shit out of any outsider who tries to come in and turn this into looting or any locals who try to loot. It just wont happen here. One city over is a very white, conservative community. There was a protest/demonstration and a counter protest by some white supremacist types, but the local police shut them down fast.

Alfred_E._Neuman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:22 pm Honest question, and board politics aside, how close do you guys think this is to a full blown battle between Trump's supporters that he's supposedly "hinted" at using their second amendment rights to help fight back the hordes and BLM/Antifa/Militant Left?
I could see a few far right militia types "coming to the rescue" and things getting very out of hand over several cities in a big hurry. Thankfully we haven't had any vigilantes trying to stop the riots yet (that I know of).

I think it’s a possibility, but I think a more likely scenario is a white guy with a gun, or few of them, who are simply trying to protect their own families and/or property, kill looters and get tarred as white supremacists.

So it turns out that Mr. George was on fentanyl and meth and had a heart condition, and that the method of restraint is an allowable use of force. They're going to have an uphill battle making a murder charge stick on the cop.

I hope you guys are right about leaning away from a full on race war. My wife is still friends with a bunch of her people from our little farming town we came from in middle GA, and those rednecks are ready to throw down if need be. Hopefully it's just a bunch of talk.

Fat Cat's mention of the meth and fentanyl brings up some other thoughts I've been having about this whole thing. I saw an interview with Ralph Nader (I know...) where he was talking about Occupy Wall Street. He said at the height of the protests he went down to speak with the protesters and he asked 1.Who's in charge, and 2. Where's your list of actionable demands that you want to see met. Crickets. No leader and no thoughts as to what they actually wanted to have changed. He left and didn't bother with Occupy anymore because he knew it was a farce and just an excuse to be belligerent.
I feel like this is a similar situation. There needs to be a solid leader step up for the black community, and they need a list of actionable demands that they want the criminal justice system to meet. Otherwise there are going to be sit-ins at every precinct, city hall, and state capital until the end of time. Well organized protests that will actually get a message across. First on that list would be much stricter drug testing for officers. Also, much improved psych exams that will be given much more often to judge an officer's mental state. Maybe reform of non-violent crime laws. Maybe no former combat military vets on police forces. Whatever, but an actual list of what you want to get out of this situation.

My personal opinion is that police use of force policies are too aggressive. There are too many times officers respond with physical force when patience or just waiting it out will save lives. Police by the nature of their job are not usually dealing with people at their best.

Just the other day in LA proper they shot and killed some dude with sword. Why? They can't wait it out? Why did they need to kneel on George Floyds's neck? Why is that allowed. What was the point?

I'm not out protesting. But I have reached out to our police chief (we are a small city with our own force) just asking the questions about use of force, what is allowed, what is not allowed, etc.

I don't know if Derek Chauvin is a racist bastard or if he was honestly trying to restrain George Floyd. But either way a man is dead and it seems needless.

Unfortunately the way this has played out all sides are entrenched. We aren't going to get a full review of what happened, why it happened, and what real changes we can make so it doesn't happen anymore.