IGX

I like Hawaii’s offer to host remote workers. If I wasn’t tied down by kids...

I’ve got a number of friends that are moving to ski towns for the winter, working on their laptops and phones. Might as well make the best of a bad situation.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm

kreator wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:01 pm

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:09 pm
It is frustrating to see the US acting like a shitty country compared to so many other developed ones

Can you expand on this? US leads with absolute numbers, but adjusted per capita there are a number of developed countries that have higher deaths and confirmed cases.

As you point out, there are difficulties comparing us with places like New Zealand and Taiwan, which are smaller and more easily controlled. However, Canada represents a similar geography and arguably more disadvantaged climate, and they're doing far, far better. EU as a whole has also done better.

Our World in Data will let you plot pretty much whatever, so here are some developed non-Asian countries. Even looking at relatively similar countries that took different approaches (Norway vs. Sweden and Canada vs US) the differences are pretty striking. Our trend-line is spectacularly bad.


A few weeks ago somebody did EU and US "states," and found the rankings for worse death rates were N Dakota, Czech Republic and South Dakota. N Dakota has been the least compliant US state in getting their shit together.

It’s interesting to see what countries are doing “well” and which are not.

I admittedly have not done much research into the various methods of containment that each country has done. But it seems like there is little correlation between stringency of government response and successful handling.
My understanding is that countries like UK, Italy, and France have had stricter responses than the US but are still struggling. And then others, like you and nafod mentioned, are doing fine with the same levels of response.

Makes me wonder how much a nation’s culture has to do with it. Things like a culture’s hygienic habits, physical interaction, and willingness to comply to rules can’t really be quantified. Really not surprising that Japan and Canada have it better than the US when you consider those things.

^^^Of course, the things you name (e.g., hygienic habits, physical interaction, and willingness to comply) are important factors but so is the method of testing they have applied. Many instances of deaths attributed to COVID-19 are not in the US, and many instances of death resulting from COVID-19 may not be attributed to it elsewhere (see China, India, Russia, etc.).

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:50 pm The dead people are going to feel so much better about this.

This is the worst remark to make to comment on science statistics.

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm
A few weeks ago somebody did EU and US "states," and found the rankings for worse death rates were N Dakota, Czech Republic and South Dakota. N Dakota has been the least compliant US state in getting their shit together.

What is this, putting states in quotes. Do you think that states aren't states? Also, it's interesting that you say compliant. A state doesn't have to comply with anything. If you mean, least willing to follow the most restrictive suggestions, say that. I suspect you don't like North Dakota because they aren't compliant with much of the left's agenda in general (pre-covid).

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:14 am

Grandpa's Spells wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 10:33 pm
A few weeks ago somebody did EU and US "states," and found the rankings for worse death rates were N Dakota, Czech Republic and South Dakota. N Dakota has been the least compliant US state in getting their shit together.

What is this, putting states in quotes.

Because he is comparing North Dakota (state) to a European country (state).

We haven't seen that many suicides yet. This surprises me.

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:14 am I suspect you don't like North Dakota because they aren't compliant with much of the left's agenda in general (pre-covid).

I suspect your suspicion is well-founded and correct!

The population of North Dakota is about 800,000. They've had over 1,000 COVID deaths. So their death rate among the entire population is about 1 in 800 people.

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:10 pm The population of North Dakota is about 800,000. They've had over 1,000 COVID deaths. So their death rate among the entire population is about 1 in 800 people.

That's a sobering number. I wish we knew who was dying. Is it freedom loving mask hating cowboys or poor people crowded together in meat packing plants, reservations, and jam packed housing. Also, what's the age of the dead?

And, despite their awful numbers, ND is #7 in deaths/million below 5 mask wearing lock down type states. Per Worldometers
Looking at cases/million, ND leads the pack and 8 of the top ten states lean right politically.

Perhaps it's as simple as certain localities having higher tolerances for death vs. freedom or higher demands for safety vs. freedom. Or, maybe the virus is gonna reap the geographies it wants to reap when it wants to reap them. Farr's law and all that.

I think it was 60% elderly nursing home occupants.

The super spreaders are not the ones dying, they're the ones giving the gift. That's been the problem throughout, wearing a mask is a selfless act.

Enough people don't wear them, and it gets to the nursing homes eventually. One of ours in town has a 90% infection rate, and the Sunday obituaries are taking extra pages. Creepy to see it.

DrDonkeyLove... wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:57 pm

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:10 pm The population of North Dakota is about 800,000. They've had over 1,000 COVID deaths. So their death rate among the entire population is about 1 in 800 people.

That's a sobering number. I wish we knew who was dying. Is it freedom loving mask hating cowboys or poor people crowded together in meat packing plants, reservations, and jam packed housing. Also, what's the age of the dead?

And, despite their awful numbers, ND is #7 in deaths/million below 5 mask wearing lock down type states. Per Worldometers
Looking at cases/million, ND leads the pack and 8 of the top ten states lean right politically.

Perhaps it's as simple as certain localities having higher tolerances for death vs. freedom or higher demands for safety vs. freedom. Or, maybe the virus is gonna reap the geographies it wants to reap when it wants to reap them. Farr's law and all that.

I suspect it's because, even though it is 1 in 800 people dying, that's still not a lot of people on a personal level. I don't know 800 people.....so the odds of me, even with that staggering number being personally impacted is still really low. It's just a number, you know. So it's easy to not think about it.

At this point I know and or know of plenty of people who have gotten sick. None died. A lot of the ones who got sick low symptoms. Some no symptoms that seem like false positives. And several who have been sicker than they've ever been.

Many people will regard this as callous but here's my view: Even if covid were a lot more lethal than it is, as a society we could survive it, but the harm to our society and economy by these draconian measures is not survivable. Maybe ND feels the same way.

BTW, how many here have spent any time in ND? I have. It's a place where people get after it. They work really hard and are very intolerant of those who don't. My point here is, it's not that North Dakotans are ignorant or selfish, it's that they value productivity and self reliance.

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:46 pm Many people will regard this as callous but here's my view: Even if covid were a lot more lethal than it is, as a society we could survive it, but the harm to our society and economy by these draconian measures is not survivable. Maybe ND feels the same way.

Countries like New Zealand and Taiwan have been full open since they gained control of it. Bars and restaurants open.

The economy goes where the virus goes.

Taiwan has 23M people. They are full open. ND’s total death toll FAR exceeds Taiwan’s, with a population less than 1/20th of Taiwan. Nothing but selfishness and incompetence in our part.

It’s a Saturday afternoon at 3:00 in the afternoon, and Taipei Metro’s blue line is packed. Riders are standing shoulder to shoulder. Exiting passengers positioned in the interior kindly ask those in front of the doors to make way. All passengers are sporting compulsory masks—including those heading to the four-day Outdoor Show at the Nangang Exhibition Center.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90579327/ho ... s-pandemic

Fast Company has a really leftist bias. If you want to cite a source, use one that isn't so biased.

Plus, how do we attribute deaths? There is no consistent standard for determining whether a death is attributed to covid or not.

nafod wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:58 pm

motherjuggs&speed wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:46 pm Many people will regard this as callous but here's my view: Even if covid were a lot more lethal than it is, as a society we could survive it, but the harm to our society and economy by these draconian measures is not survivable. Maybe ND feels the same way.

Countries like New Zealand and Taiwan have been full open since they gained control of it. Bars and restaurants open.

The economy goes where the virus goes.

Taiwan has 23M people. They are full open. ND’s total death toll FAR exceeds Taiwan’s, with a population less than 1/20th of Taiwan. Nothing but selfishness and incompetence in our part.

It’s a Saturday afternoon at 3:00 in the afternoon, and Taipei Metro’s blue line is packed. Riders are standing shoulder to shoulder. Exiting passengers positioned in the interior kindly ask those in front of the doors to make way. All passengers are sporting compulsory masks—including those heading to the four-day Outdoor Show at the Nangang Exhibition Center.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90579327/ho ... s-pandemic

Just stop, you're such a dork. Every single country you shitlibs have tried to use as "proof" of American mismanagement have experienced crushing resurgences only weeks later. It's embarrassing to watch. First it was South Korea, then Germany, then Taiwan. Stop doing this to your self. Taiwan and NZ are fucking islands with small populations. The USA has twice as many illegal immigrants as NZ has citizens. If only we had a wall to keep them out...

Taiwan has 23,000,000 people, with travel to China and back since it is right next door.

7 people have died there from COVID as of today.

Move there.

We had 3000 die in the USA today. So every 3 minutes we lose as many as Taiwan has lost the whole pandemic so far.

nafod wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:08 am We had 3000 die in the USA today. So every 3 minutes we lose as many as Taiwan has lost the whole pandemic so far.

nafod wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:52 am Taiwan has 23,000,000 people, with travel to China and back since it is right next door.

7 people have died there from COVID as of today.

Don't be so obtuse. If covid is as deadly as all that, it would be impossible for the ROC to have lost so few. Do the chinks have some special magic, or do they maybe undercount, while some others overcount?

According to his own numbers, Taiwan needs a few million more to equal the population of Los Angeles. The comparison is dumb.

I have lived among old people. The more of them die, the sooner, the better.

Fat Cat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:44 am According to his own numbers, Taiwan needs a few million more to equal the population of Los Angeles.

Taiwan has 23.5 million people. Los Angeles has around 4 million.

You are correct, I was wrong. Thank you for the correction. I was thinking of the Greater Los Angeles Area, which is not the same thing, but has a population of ~19 million in 2019:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Los_Angeles