Q Anon is a New American Religion

[Bram]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ng/610567/

I am sharing this with Benny in mind, because he has shared his support for Pizza Gate related material.

That said, Benny, I like you, and I also like everyone here. I'm sharing this in the hopes of having a good discussion going and not to give you a hard time.

The Atlantic has another related article, but since I haven't read that one yet, I'll refrain from sharing until I do.

[DikTracy6000]

I thought the Q had gone away last year, or thereabouts. We have a crazy guy on another forum I'm on, that's always dropping ambiguous Q-isms about the impending destruction of whomever he thinks is destroying the country. Always has some nebulous date(s) when the next shoe will drop, it hasn't ever happened. He's left in shame several times because he's been constantly jumping the shark with his nonsense. He's been calling for the jailing of Comey, Clapper, Brennan, and HRC since 2016, saying it was imminent. Q-anon is a master riddler that keeps his conspiracy-fueled, flock stirred up all the time. Then he flat out disappears for months on end.

[Bram]

My dad was a 9/11 Truther and I just kinda dismissed it, but there was one occasion where he started yelling at some of my elderly personal training clients because they didn't believe him (he brought it up to everyone).

Then today after sharing this, I got a text from a friend who thinks Bill Gates is evil and was showing me a conspiracy video that he hasn't vaccinated his kids. An hour before, on Facebook, this lady was posting memes about the same thing, and declaring her knowledge about the truth when challenged on it.

Touting a meme as proof, or equal in your mind to in-depth journalism, is a very unusual state of affairs.

[Fat Cat]

Personally, and without reference to any specific conspiracy, the world is so vast and there are so many forces that are shaping our lives that we have no ability to control, that people grasp for theories and belief systems that help them grapple with their feelings of helplessness.

That said, if you believe that you have the full story regarding the Kennedy assassinations, 9/11, the Epstein "suicide", and a host of other extremely implausible events, you're probably should stick to shoes with velcro straps. I prefer to remain in the position of "not knowing" rather than to pretend that I have it all figured out, but for many people, that's too uncomfortable a position to sustain.

[nafod]

I prefer to remain in the position of "not knowing" rather than to pretend that I have it all figured out, but for many people, that's too uncomfortable a position to sustain.

I'm with you in general.

As B16 likes to point out, I am a Bayesian. Therefore I place probability distributions on explanations, ranging from "seems reasonable and best matches the data although no explanation perfectly matches" to "extraordinarily unlikely bullshit".

[Shapecharge]

Well said Mak. Relative to the concept of the "deep state" certainly any reasonable person could see the possibility of a group of entrenched, like-minded professionals acting in such a way that would counteract or undermine policies, initiatives, or directives created by elected or appointed officials that were deemed to not be valid by said professionals.

[Fat Cat]

Well said Mak. Relative to the concept of the "deep state" certainly any reasonable person could see the possibility of a group of entrenched, like-minded professionals acting in such a way that would counteract or undermine policies, initiatives, or directives created by elected or appointed officials that were deemed to not be valid by said professionals.

The Derp State, IMHO, is not even a conspiracy theory it's a statement of fact. Administrations come and go, but the ship sails on, helmed by mid-level officials which are not answerable to the public or even their elected representatives.

Consider a modern hot-button topic, saaaaaaaaay immigration. Do you remember the election where we decided how many immigrants was a sustainable number? Do you recall the open, democratic discourse that established those policies, based on hard data debated in the public forum? You know, the one where we all understood the important factors and then made a decision for the collective good? Because I don't. Those decisions were made by un-elected mid-level agency people who answer to forces well outside the public eye and which might as well be collectively called the Deep State, in that they are hidden, un-elected, and un-beholden to you or I. Think about agency manipulation in the lead up to the Iraq War as another prime example.

[motherjuggs&speed]

That Atlantic article is rubbish, written by someone both clueless and with an agenda. I read The Atlantic regularly, maybe just to get my BP up. Q was/is trollage that some idiots, both foilhat guys and media figures, take seriously.

[nafod]

Well said Mak. Relative to the concept of the "deep state" certainly any reasonable person could see the possibility of a group of entrenched, like-minded professionals acting in such a way that would counteract or undermine policies, initiatives, or directives created by elected or appointed officials that were deemed to not be valid by said professionals.

The Derp State, IMHO, is not even a conspiracy theory it's a statement of fact. Administrations come and go, but the ship sails on, helmed by mid-level officials which are not answerable to the public or even their elected representatives.

It's just the technocrats who do their job, and are typically members of the public themselves. They are experts in stuff like making trains run on time, keeping the power grid working, getting your passports created, processing taxes, administering contracts, and a bazillion other things that need doing.

I've been on both sides. You get the CO or political appointee who rolls in with lots of big talk and looking to make their mark in the short period they have, while you've been getting it done just fine without them. Some guy who takes over FEMA that raised horses for a living 24 hours prior. Most of the ambassadors are just big donors. You think they actually run the embassy?

I've been the guy who shows up for a couple of years and wants to make a dramatic change that the organization doesn't necessarily agree with. They slow roll you, because they think they are doing what needs to be done just fine. A mix of passion for the job, guarding selfish interests, etc. Big ship, little rudder, you make the changes you can make. Sell the program you want, convince old guys to retire, promote future leaders, shoot a few in the head as a public example. Try to convince the next guy that your plan was great, but he likely shows up with his own ideas. And so it goes.

I am sure the same thing happened in Indian tribes when the new leader was like,"We're going to switch from fishing to farming." Call it the Deep State if you want, it is human nature.

[motherjuggs&speed]

I find that view cynical and lazy. Corruption and incompetence have been around forever, but for a while in the US we wanted some measure of honesty and competence and we got it. If we all say "that's just how it is" then yeah, that's how it is.

Twice I put some effort into assembling a run for a local office. I didn't go through with it but still might one day. I respect the dedication of the many people who keep things running but I have contempt for the political deal making process.

[nafod]

I find that view cynical and lazy.

Which view...mine?

[motherjuggs&speed]

Yeah, the part about human nature. It's also human nature to murder, lie, steal, rape, and do all kinds of other things people have been doing since forever. Doesn't mean we should accept them for that reason.

[nafod]

Yeah, the part about human nature. It's also human nature to murder, lie, steal, rape, and do all kinds of other things people have been doing since forever. Doesn't mean we should accept them for that reason.

Well, we don't accept them, which is why we have laws and courts and prisons.

Feel free to pretend people aren't what they actually are, but good luck with that.

You can become a change artist by leading and inspiring and nudging and shoving to get buy-in, understanding the natural inclinations of the hoi polloi. Another alternative is to burn it all down.

Which path were you intending to take as an assemblyman?

I have contempt for the political deal making process...

It's helped make us the greatest country on the planet. The Founding Fathers knew a lot about human nature too.

[Bram]

Personally, and without reference to any specific conspiracy, the world is so vast and there are so many forces that are shaping our lives that we have no ability to control, that people grasp for theories and belief systems that help them grapple with their feelings of helplessness.

That said, if you believe that you have the full story regarding the Kennedy assassinations, 9/11, the Epstein "suicide", and a host of other extremely implausible events, you're probably should stick to shoes with velcro straps. I prefer to remain in the position of "not knowing" rather than to pretend that I have it all figured out, but for many people, that's too uncomfortable a position to sustain.

I think that's an astute observation about human nature, and is also the reason for religious belief - wanting certainty in an uncertain world.

And by no means do I feel I have the full story about any of the things you mentioned. I'm in the "not knowing, frankly don't care much" group. Not because I think they are meaningless subjects, but because I'm dispassionate about them. With my father, he would work himself up again and again with every new 9/11 video he watched. But I had to tell him to stop playing them when I was home unless something was to be done about it: donate money to an investigation, etc.

The thing I find fascinating about the Q Anon stuff is the language used (e.g. "do your research") and how it has permeated that culture, and the equivocating between memes, extremely questionable sources (unnamed doctor at unnamed conference claims Bill Gates didn't vaccinate his kids, article later rescinded by the website it was published on for being untrustworthy), and actual journalism.

Whether you want to call it "fake news" or not, which as far as I can tell just means "news that I don't agree with," journalists have to put their names on what they write and get put through the ringer for plagiarism, falsifying their sources, etc. Anyone can make a meme that says, for example, "Bram is a cyborg." And all of a sudden the onus is on me to prove I'm not a cybernetic organism. What a buncha horseshit.

[Bram]

That Atlantic article is rubbish, written by someone both clueless and with an agenda. I read The Atlantic regularly, maybe just to get my BP up. Q was/is trollage that some idiots, both foilhat guys and media figures, take seriously.

Can I get a more thorough review than "rubbish?"

I found it well-written. That I saw the behavior echoed immediately in my social network (twice within an hour of finishing it), made me find it relevant.

[Fat Cat]

Well, is Bram a cyborg? I'm just asking questions.

[motherjuggs&speed]

Which path were you intending to take as an assemblyman?

I was going to try to do something about the incarceration rate, bail reform, that sort of thing. I don't for a moment believe I would have had much success but I wanted to at least try instead of just posting to boards.

I have contempt for the political deal making process...

It's helped make us the greatest country on the planet. The Founding Fathers knew a lot about human nature too.

The part about compromises between interests in the legislative process is legitimate and what the Framers intended. But nowadays we have things like "sue and settle" where a government agency and an NGO hammer out their own deal and we all have to live by it, without a law being introduced into the legislature for the people's representatives to vote on.

[Bram]

Well, is Bram a cyborg? I'm just asking questions.

The easiest way to know is to cut off my hand and see if there's robotics underneath.

[motherjuggs&speed]

Typical cyborg disinformation. The newer models have bioidentical parts except for the microchips.

[Bram]

Total body dissection is the only remedy then. And then I might have quantum technology. Maybe molecular dissection.

[Turdacious]

Get a room you two.

[Luke]

I tried reading some of the Q stuff and just found it way too cryptic to understand what was being explained in the first place.

There are some odd and very coincidental deaths that are outlined - like Russian nurses out of windows stuff - which I always find intriguing though.

[nafod]

And then I might have quantum technology.

That's all any of us are

[nafod]

There are some odd and very coincidental deaths that are outlined - like Russian nurses out of windows stuff - which I always find intriguing though.

When you look at the number of potential coincidental things to happen each day, which are probably in the trillions, the odds that something will line up into a pattern is pretty much = 1.

I tried reading some of the Q stuff and just found it way too cryptic to understand what was being explained in the first place.

I feel that way about most religious writings.

[Luke]

There are some odd and very coincidental deaths that are outlined - like Russian nurses out of windows stuff - which I always find intriguing though.

When you look at the number of potential coincidental things to happen each day, which are probably in the trillions, the odds that something will line up into a pattern is pretty much = 1.

I tried reading some of the Q stuff and just found it way too cryptic to understand what was being explained in the first place.

I feel that way about most religious writings.

I can't work out why this supposed insider can't just write in plain English.