Can a 58 y.o. learn to play guitar?

[beefheart]

I've heard an electric is easier than acoustic.

I'm thinking an Epiphone SG or a Squier Strat.

[Thatcher II]

Yes.

Buy a nylon string acoustic with low action. Hours of pleasure without sore fingers. Then go steel if you can play and still like it.

Find a teacher who shows you shit you like.

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

Yes.

Buy a nylon string acoustic with low action.

yes and yes. Electric isn't "easier" than acoustic, but steel string acoustics tend to have a higher action and higher-gauge strings than electric = they can beat your hands up some if you're not used to it.

[DARTH]

Unless you like acoustic, or want to take some long path, go right for the electric. The Squire if you have big hands (25.5"sacle neck) or the SG if you have smaller hands (24.75" scale neck) as far as feel goes.

Squier will have a brighter, more twangish sound, SG will have a more punchy but moanish and smother sound (of coarse I've seen the opposite sometimes but generally this is how it goes.)

By a tuner and an amp. The net has so many free lessons, theory and how to plays for your favourite songs.

I've found all kinds of obscure shit I like this way.

Enjoy!

[beefheart]

Darf echoes most of the advice I 've gotten so far; but I have primarily talked to younger, hard rock oriented guys.

What about something like this:



--part of the appeal is the mental image of me in my mancave with a little amp.

[DARTH]

If you want accustic than that's a nice student set up, but I find that many who want to play electric but go with that pretty much old school (and anti rock guitar BTW, that's what the jazz and folk cocks who used to teach guitar would say to get kids to play accustics) advice to play acoustic first usually play a few weeks and then they stop and they have a peoce of musical furniture.

I did start on acoustic, because I had no money when I was 15 and I ditched that fucker as quick as I could bang enough nails to get the money for a shitty electric. I hardly ever play accustic, I just use a clean channel on my amp and a graphic EQ and get the same sound but with sustain.

[Thatcher II]

Don't do it. The hardest sort of guitar on your hands is a steel string acoustic. Either go nylon (my recommendation) or electric. In both cases go for low action. Insist on it. But a steel acoustic is a bad idea. No good will come of it, I warn thee.

BTW Darf, when you hear Friday Night in San Francisco you might lose the "electric or nothing" attitude I had when I was 15 :)

[Gav]

Beefy, do yourself a favour and get the book 'guitar principles' by Jamie Andreas. It will make your journey miles easier. The principles can be applied to any guitar music/book. Don't get freaked out though, Jamie is a girl who used to be a boy.

[DARTH]

Gotby, when I was younger I played out live with bands. Even got blown for it a few times.

And unless he has pussyitus, his fingers will get used to steel strings. Nylon is fine for classical and flamenco but it's jack shit for much else and the boards are too fucking flat for the kind of open chord strumming stuff in most American music.

The guy already said his thoughts were between an SG and a strat, that's electric.

My grandfather used to make me listen to Segovia, incredible talent but you can't fuck to it.

[beefheart]

I talked to two different guys my age who both recommended acoustic and nylon strings, both of them took up guitar later in life.

The relatively clean-cut guitarist in this Christian/Deathcore conglomeration --[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qjtg27vvEU[/youtube] -- recommended going electric and the Strat over the SG as it would be 'blusier.' he wouldn't steer me wrong-- its Christian/Deathcore. But I got a similar recommendation from a guy in his sixties, who mostly plays bluegrass now but rocked it in the sixties and seventies.

My attachment to the SG is purely sentimental, I had a great friend/former brother-in-law who was the best musician I ever knew. He loved his SG and could tear up anything from Jerry Reed and George Jones to Fairport Convention to Sparks on it. He could play the Stones and Who standing on his head. I miss him.

Mrs. Beef wants me to talk to one of her co-workers husband's who gives lessons. The coward's way out.

[Thatcher II]

Gotby, when I was younger I played out live with bands. Even got blown for it a few times.

And unless he has pussyitus, his fingers will get used to steel strings. Nylon is fine for classical and flamenco but it's jack shit for much else and the boards are too fucking flat for the kind of open chord strumming stuff in most American music.

The guy already said his thoughts were between an SG and a strat, that's electric.

My grandfather used to make me listen to Segovia, incredible talent but you can't fuck to it.

What is "American music"?

You can play anything on nylon. Strumming, dampening, picking. Try Sultans of Swing. Have a listen to Rodrigo Y Gabriella doing Metallica's One. Not sure if they're big in the US but they did a very popular recording in Manchester that you'll find on YouTube.

Nylon is the original and still best guitar sound IMO. A nylon with pickup amp and distortion rocks. Knock off distortion and you'll have much better tone than steel.

As an aside, did you ever listen to Chris Whitley? He's dead now. Very good player. Great acoustic stuff and played a banjo as well. Check out "Wild Country" and "Ballpeen Hammer". You will like. I'm sorry I only discovered him when he was dead.

[DARTH]

Shut the fuck up you troll. He said SG and Strat, not a nylon string guitar.

Some good acts but Sultin of Swing sounds better on a clean electric, you need sustain for that song.

Your fingers should get used to strings in no time (and soaking the tips in pickle juice 5-10 minutes every day or so for a month does quicken that.)

[Thatcher II]

Drath, he's asking if a 58 y.o. can play guitar and just has a loose idea of what he thinks he'd like. I've taught people guitar. A lot make the classic mistake of not buying something that's comfortable to play. There's more chance of sticking with guitar as an instrument if you don't have to dip your sore fingers in pickle juice (or methylated spirits in my day) to "harden them up". You're entitled to make recommendations but there's no need to be such a cunt. You're not the only fucker around who can play a few Ingwe intimidation riffs.

Beefy, go with what you like but make sure it's set up first and foremost for comfort and playability. I still have the first guitar I ever got - a nylon. It was cheap but it was comfortable so I quickly learned a few chords and I was away. Others I know spent more on better guitars with steel strings and high action (distance between strings and fretboard) and they mostly gave up.

[Turdacious]

Drath, he's asking if a 58 y.o. can play guitar and just has a loose idea of what he thinks he'd like. I've taught people guitar.

At arts and crafts time at Dammasch?

[DARTH]

Right here is what I warned about and why a lot of people quit, a lot of these weeny guitar teachers, who center on Folk, Jazz and/or Classical and have never played with a loud amp on stage (and got blown for it) rope people into buying accustic shitboxes in hopes of converting you to their way of thinging or they just cant play and electric worth shit because the distrotion and sustain is hard for them to control at louder than whisper volumes.

If I was a control freak and said to my kids "You will play guitar and be virtuosos!" well they would be doing some classical guitar first because I would be making them. (It can help, Lifeson took classical guitar lessons as a teen) But so many people quit after a month or 2 because they listen to the BS that your hands will hurt so go with this nylon, have to retune every 5 minutes peice of shit that you will never sound remotely like a rocker.

[Bud Charniga's grape ape]

Nylon is the original and still best guitar sound IMO. A nylon with pickup amp and distortion rocks. Knock off distortion and you'll have much better tone than steel.

whoah now. I agree with you that a nylon-string is a good beginner's guitar: they're easy on the hands, and you can get a decent one cheaply.

But "best sound?" For what? Best for punk? Blues? Rockabilly? Not fucking likely. And if you think that your average nylon string guitar sounds better through an amp at concert levels than an electric, well, you've either never played a decent electric through a decent amp, sorry, or you've never turned it up loud enough to matter. Whether you've taught people or not, that shit just isn't true.

[Thatcher II]

Nylon is the original and still best guitar sound IMO. A nylon with pickup amp and distortion rocks. Knock off distortion and you'll have much better tone than steel.

whoah now. I agree with you that a nylon-string is a good beginner's guitar: they're easy on the hands, and you can get a decent one cheaply.

But "best sound?" For what? Best for punk? Blues? Rockabilly? Not fucking likely. And if you think that your average nylon string guitar sounds better through an amp at concert levels than an electric, well, you've either never played a decent electric through a decent amp, sorry, or you've never turned it up loud enough to matter. Whether you've taught people or not, that shit just isn't true.

Largely agreed. You can't play slide on a nylon. You can't do Eddie hammer ons etc. But I'm advising a pure beginner. You can plug in a nylon and play with distortion, delay etc and make a decent sound.
"Best" is necessarily subjective - just my opinion. If you'd asked me when I was 15 I'd have laughed at nylon but that's where I've ended up. And it's where my experience indicates beginners will get the most out of guitar even if they want to play nothing but metal.

[Thatcher II]

Right here is what I warned about and why a lot of people quit, a lot of these weeny guitar teachers, who center on Folk, Jazz and/or Classical and have never played with a loud amp on stage (and got blown for it) rope people into buying accustic shitboxes in hopes of converting you to their way of thinging or they just cant play and electric worth shit because the distrotion and sustain is hard for them to control at louder than whisper volumes.

If I was a control freak and said to my kids "You will play guitar and be virtuosos!" well they would be doing some classical guitar first because I would be making them. (It can help, Lifeson took classical guitar lessons as a teen) But so many people quit after a month or 2 because they listen to the BS that your hands will hurt so go with this nylon, have to retune every 5 minutes peice of shit that you will never sound remotely like a rocker.

I just read this now. It saddens me. You're so sure you know more and have done more with guitars than anyone else. So a thread about a guy taking up guitar becomes about how great you are with all your usual OTT aggression. And you have to put everyone else down.

If the guy wants to play loud electric he'll do that and I wish him well. I'm hardly trying to steer him to play stuff I like the most. The most reward I'm going to get from this is a post from Beef in a few weeks saying he took my advice and is enjoying the experience.

Drath, you need to chill out about stuff. Pull back. Ease up. Have a great day.

[DARTH]

You are a fucking Troll.

No I have not done everything with a guitar but I have done way more than enough to be qualified to talk and I have been around enough to see yet another acoustic guitar teacher push the very opposite of the kind of guitar someone wants.

I think he gets it that if he's a big pussy about his hands he can always ditch the electric and get a nylon string guitar.

[Thatcher II]

You are a fucking Troll.

No I have not done everything with a guitar but I have done way more than enough to be qualified to talk and I have been around enough to see yet another acoustic guitar teacher push the very opposite of the kind of guitar someone wants.

I think he gets it that if he's a big pussy about his hands he can always ditch the electric and get a nylon string guitar.

I'm not a "guitar teacher", you muppet. I've taught a few people over the years. That's all.

I played electric only for about 10 years. It's a lot of fun. But I'm glad I started with nylon because when I went steel and electric I had all the chords and enough satisfaction playing to stick with it. That's all. A different approach to you.

Beefy, last advice from me - buy a capo with the guitar. Putting that on fret 2 will lower the action and make every guitar easier to play at the beginning.

[beefheart]

Went to my local brick and mortar, hometown, third generation music store I talked to the owner who is also the guitar tech. I pretty much asked, how does a stubby fingered, fat old man with no apparent musical talent start out on guitar. He showed me the difference between a classical w/nylon strings and a regular acoustic, folk size and dreadnought.

He thought I would be comfortable w/ a D-size Alvarez which had the slimmest neck, hence easiest finger placement the of half dozen or so guitars I tried, and also the bigger body provided better arm placement for me. He said he had personally modified the bridge, and something else I forgot, to improve the action on this guitar, and finger discomfort wouldn't be a real issue. The price was a little bit more than internet pricing but I have to assume the customer service is a lot better. He said it was all the guitar I would ever need, but would hold its value; if I ever wanted an electric acoustic, electric, or classical, I could trade it in.

So I've signed up for a trial lesson w/ that guitar. He signed me up with an older blues guy as my instructor, he said he would be the best fit for me (they have over ten guitar instructors and their music school is one of the biggest in the area) but maybe that was the guy that had an opening. So we'll see what I think next Tuesday.

I told him I wanted to strum along to John Prine songs.

[DikTracy6000]

Beefy, avoid your contrast showers while you're still plugged in.

[Batboy2/75]

Many people die with their music still in them. Why is this so? Too often it is because they are always getting ready to live. Before they know it, time runs out.

I wouldn't let age get in the way of anything you want to do. Within reason attempt everything. Life is short.

[Thatcher II]

Went to my local brick and mortar, hometown, third generation music store I talked to the owner who is also the guitar tech. I pretty much asked, how does a stubby fingered, fat old man with no apparent musical talent start out on guitar. He showed me the difference between a classical w/nylon strings and a regular acoustic, folk size and dreadnought.

He thought I would be comfortable w/ a D-size Alvarez which had the slimmest neck, hence easiest finger placement the of half dozen or so guitars I tried, and also the bigger body provided better arm placement for me. He said he had personally modified the bridge, and something else I forgot, to improve the action on this guitar, and finger discomfort wouldn't be a real issue. The price was a little bit more than internet pricing but I have to assume the customer service is a lot better. He said it was all the guitar I would ever need, but would hold its value; if I ever wanted an electric acoustic, electric, or classical, I could trade it in.

So I've signed up for a trial lesson w/ that guitar. He signed me up with an older blues guy as my instructor, he said he would be the best fit for me (they have over ten guitar instructors and their music school is one of the biggest in the area) but maybe that was the guy that had an opening. So we'll see what I think next Tuesday.

I told him I wanted to strum along to John Prine songs.

Awesome! So is that a steel string dreadnought size? You're in for a blast. He has probably lowered the saddle and nut or he's altered the angle of the neck with an Allen key. All good and sounds like he is looking after you. You go girl!! Older blues guy, huh? Check out this shit:

http://youtu.be/6G9co9nKwfE

http://youtu.be/HtbsfDiDLTM

http://youtu.be/nlaCZ106b5w


From about 1:50 onwards on the last one is about as clean and fast as I've ever heard on a live guitar. Mind you, I haven't seen Drath, who is so good, grown men suck his dick.

[DARTH]

Many people die with their music still in them. Why is this so? Too often it is because they are always getting ready to live. Before they know it, time runs out.

I wouldn't let age get in the way of anything you want to do. Within reason attempt everything. Life is short.

Exactly and music is not an athletic event, it's a spiritual exercise in many ways.

Technique is less important than sincerity, way less important.

Learn some open chords (many, many songs truley only use 3) some Root 5th chords (aka the power chord) some 7th chords, the basic pentatonic scale (the root of much of western music, the scale of the blues) in the "box" positions and you are on to a good start. Maybe learn your root, 5th and octaves?

But Beefy is getting lessons from a blues guy and it seems to fit his taste. He should do fine.