Lance concedes, likely to lose titles...

[tough old man]

From the Sports Illustrated article

Armstrong did not really fool us. Come on. How many of you really knew how Armstrong won his titles in the first place? If I'd pinned you in the corner of the world's worst dinner party eight years ago and asked "What makes Lance Armstrong so great?," what would you have said? He moves his left foot forward and then his right foot forward and then his left foot forward and he does it all so fast! So very, very fast!

As time went on, the people who cared realized he had probably been cheating. And the people who just liked Lance Armstrong didn't care.

He made the right decision Thursday. He ended a game he probably deserved to lose. It will be hard for him to vacation in Paris now, but I didn't get the sense he liked those folks much anyway. The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency says Lance Armstrong cheated to win bike races. Armstrong says he is trying to cure cancer. I think a lot of people would rather listen to Armstrong.

[Turdacious]

...the “United States Anti-doping Agency is not a part of the federal government. Although it receives almost 70 percent of its funding from the federal grants, the USADA is a government program masquerading as a non-profit organization. This non-profit status allows it to investigate and prosecute athletes without affording them the constitutional and due process protections required of other federal agencies. This status also allows it to prosecute athletes with a lower burden of proof than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard that would have been required in the previous investigation by the USDOJ. Finally, it allows a situation where the same man, Mr. Travis T. Tygart is allowed to serve as Prosecutor, Jury and Judge in the investigation of Lance Armstrong.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/o ... trong-case

In other news the Judge Dredd movie comes out next month.

All of this makes me want to finally get a LiveStrong bracelet.

[Blaidd Drwg]

...the “United States Anti-doping Agency is not a part of the federal government. Although it receives almost 70 percent of its funding from the federal grants, the USADA is a government program masquerading as a non-profit organization. This non-profit status allows it to investigate and prosecute athletes without affording them the constitutional and due process protections required of other federal agencies. This status also allows it to prosecute athletes with a lower burden of proof than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard that would have been required in the previous investigation by the USDOJ. Finally, it allows a situation where the same man, Mr. Travis T. Tygart is allowed to serve as Prosecutor, Jury and Judge in the investigation of Lance Armstrong.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/o ... trong-case

In other news the Judge Dredd movie comes out next month.

All of this makes me want to finally get a LiveStrong bracelet.

That's a good article

[TerryB]

Can you get a LiveROID bracelet?

[Thatcher II]

Armstrong is the Jon Jones of cycling.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Can you get a LiveROID bracelet?

I should hope so. I'd like one in a mobius strip.

HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.HGH.EPO.TEST.CERA.IGF-1.

[dead man walking]

it allows a situation where the same man, Mr. Travis T. Tygart is allowed to serve as Prosecutor, Jury and Judge in the investigation of Lance Armstrong.

is that true?

i thought armstrong could take usada to the court of arbitration. i.e. someone else would make the ultimate decision. he chose not to. apparently he chose not to because he knew of the evidence against him--both failed tests and credible witnesses.

this is karma. it may take awhile for the consequences of an action fully to be realized. the agent of the consequences may be a dick. but lance set all this in motion years ago and now it comes to rest on his head.

[Turdacious]

it allows a situation where the same man, Mr. Travis T. Tygart is allowed to serve as Prosecutor, Jury and Judge in the investigation of Lance Armstrong.

is that true?

i thought armstrong could take usada to the court of arbitration. i.e. someone else would make the ultimate decision. he chose not to. apparently he chose not to because he knew of the evidence against him--both failed tests and credible witnesses.

this is karma. it may take awhile for the consequences of an action fully to be realized. the agent of the consequences may be a dick. but lance set all this in motion years ago and now it comes to rest on his head.

What chance does Lance have against unscrupulous, deep pocketed prosecutors who have perverted the judicial process?

This is where BD is unfortunately mistaken IMO-- Pound and Tygert win and will continue to attempt to destroy any athlete with a Subway commercial who weighs as much as a duck.

[Blaidd Drwg]

The prudes always win in the eyes of the idiots. To those who understand what they care about, LA won this round via self immolation.

[Turdacious]

The prudes always win in the eyes of the idiots. To those who understand what they care about, LA won this round via self immolation.

Lance is screwed either way-- fighting the screwed up system incurs significant legal fees.

[WildGorillaMan]

Yeah this was a smart move on Lance's part. I'm cracking up at all the faggots talking about throwing away their yellow wristbands.

They were faggots for wearing them in the first place.

[Blaidd Drwg]

The prudes always win in the eyes of the idiots. To those who understand what they care about, LA won this round via self immolation.

Lance is screwed either way-- fighting the screwed up system incurs significant legal fees.

True, but he ran that risk like everyone else when he took EPO. I don't disagree, the game is rigged and it's a witch hunt

...but Lance is definitely a witch, bless his black heart.

[FRKCTL]

Lance is taking the gamble that UCI will stick with him. So far they have because their position is USADA has no legal standing to officially strip Lance of anything. The only thing USADA can do is ban him. With only hearsay testimony and no smoking vial of pee they are only ruining their own credibility with other coaches and athletes. Now the precedent is it doesn't matter if you do pass drug tests and are clean, anyone with an axe to grind can ring up the pee police and possibly ruin your life.

[Blaidd Drwg]

This is what UCI is worried about unraveling...



T

he whole thing presents a big mess of a problem in that respect. Denying Armstrong wins raises the question of who won the darn thing clean, then?

Let's look back at the TdF podiums from 1996 (Bjarne Riis' now-sullied win) to 2010, which has since been negated.

1996
1. Bjarne Riis – Known by many in the peloton as “Mr. 60%,” Riis admitted in a 2008 autobiography to have doped his way to the win. Since the confession came 12 years after the fact, the win is still treated as such in the record books.
2. Jan Ullrich – Once briefly suspended for the recreational use of ecstasy, Ullrich was later implicated in the 2006 Operación Puerto scandal and was barred from starting the Tour that year. Ullrich was also the subject of many allegations leveled by former teammates and former staff members in what became known as the “Telekom Affair.” He retired after police claimed to have definitive DNA evidence linking him to blood seized in the Puerto case
3. Richard Virenque – Implicated in the 1998 Festina Affair, Virenque was suspended for six months, but denied involvement in doping until a public confession in 2000.

1997
1. Ullrich (See above)
2. Virenque (See above)
3. Marco Pantani – Although he never tested directly positive for doping, Pantani was ejected from the 1999 Giro d’Italia for having a higher-than-allowable hematocrit level as he was leading the race, just one day before the final stage. The decision eventually destroyed his career and he died of a cocaine overdose in 2004.

1998
1. Pantani (See above)
2. Ullrich (See above)
3. Bobby Julich – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.

1999
1. Lance Armstrong – Armstrong has been the subject of numerous allegations since his first Tour win in 1999. He has always denied those and continues to do so. Armstrong is currently the subject of a federal investigation into doping practices and associated financial issues in the United States. A 2005 re-test of samples from the 1999 showed 16 samples to be positive for EPO. Six of those reportedly belonged to Armstrong. Due to several breaches of laboratory protocols and rules governing the handling of samples, the UCI cleared Armstrong of any wrong doing. Armstrong also tested positive for corticosteroids at the 1999, but later produced a prescription for a topical cream containing corticoids.

On August 23, 2012, he opted not to contest a host of charges leveled by USADA, including conspiracy to use and distribute doping products and witness intimidation. USADA says it intends to strip him of all seven of his Tour de France titles and ban him for life.
2. Alex Zülle – A member of the 1998 Festina team, Zülle admitted to having used EPO over several years. He was allowed to race the 1999 Tour. He retired after the 2004 season.
3. Fernando Escartin – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.

2000
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Ullrich (See above)
3. Joseba Beloki – Implicated in the 2006 Operación Puerto case. He was later cleared by Spanish authorities.

2001
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Ullrich (See above)
3. Beloki (See above)

2002
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Beloki (See above)
3. Raimondas Rumsas – On the final day of the 2002 Tour, Rumsas’ wife Edita was arrested with a variety of steroids, EPO and growth hormone in her car, but claimed they were for her mother-in-law. Rumsas tested positive for EPO at the 2003 Giro d’Italia and was suspended for two years. Both he and his wife were given four-month suspended prison sentences for the 2002 incident.

2003
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Ullrich (See above)
3. Alexander Vinokourov – Tested positive for homologous blood doping at the 2007 Tour de France. Ultimately suspended for two years.

2004
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Andreas Klöden – Implicated in the Telekom affair. No action taken.
3. Ivan Basso – Implicated in the 2006 Operación Puerto scandal, Basso was barred from starting the Tour that year. He denied involvement in blood doping, but eventually admitted to having intended to dope as an explanation for seized blood bags having been linked to him by use of DNA evidence. He was suspended for two years.

2005
1. Armstrong (See above)
2. Basso (See above)
3. Ullrich (See above)

2006
1. Óscar Pereiro – Named the winner of the 2006 Tour, after disqualification of Floyd Landis for a testosterone positive, Pereiro, a former teammate of Landis’ was among those riders against whom Landis later leveled charges. Pereiro offered a very narrow and carefully worded (some have said “tepid”) defense against those allegations.
2. Klöden (See above)
3. Carlos Sastre – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.

2007
1. Alberto Contador – Implicated in the 2006 Operación Puerto case. He was later cleared by Spanish authorities. Tested positive for clenbuterol in the 2010 Tour and the results of that edition of the Tour were negated. Andy Schleck is now the official winner of the 2010 Tour.
2. Cadel Evans – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.
3. Levi Leipheimer – Leipheimer was suspended for three months for a positive test for ephedrine in 1996. He was accused of doping by his former Gerolsteiner manager Hans-Michael Holczer. Leipheimer denied the allegations and no action has ever resulted.

2008
1. Sastre– No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.
2. Evans– No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.
3. Bernhard Kohl – Kohl finished third in the Tour and also won the climber’s jersey that year. Following the Tour, he was found to have tested positive for CERA. Kohl later confessed and was suspended for two years. He has since retired from the sport. His 2008 Tour results have been stricken from the record books.

2009
1. Contador (See above)
2. Andy Schleck – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.
3. Armstrong (See above)

2010
1. Contador (See above)
2. Schleck– No allegations, no adverse analytical findings.
3. Denis Menchov – No allegations, no adverse analytical findings

[TerryB]

it's almost like it doesn't really matter who bicycles the fastest in France

[dead man walking]

Lance is taking the gamble that UCI will stick with him. So far they have because their position is USADA has no legal standing to officially strip Lance of anything. The only thing USADA can do is ban him. With only hearsay testimony and no smoking vial of pee they are only ruining their own credibility with other coaches and athletes. Now the precedent is it doesn't matter if you do pass drug tests and are clean, anyone with an axe to grind can ring up the pee police and possibly ruin your life.

look at this

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... soundbites

usada says they have physical evidence.

the testimony is from more than a guy with an axe to grind.

as material energes, lance loses the minds of rational viewers, and some hearts as well.

[Blaidd Drwg]

USADA has a pretty fair amount of physical evidence and an extremely low standard of "proof" The decision of the DOJ to back off is clearly political.

Here's a nice bit of write up...

Doping will undoubtedly make you a faster cyclist, no argument there. What doping won’t do though is make you win the Tour de France 7 times in a row. A higher hematocrit doesn’t instill in someone a maniacal drive to not just succeed but dominate. HGH doesn’t help you climb back from the edge of near certain death and come back to the sport you love to not just compete but win. Corticosteroids don’t lift you off the tarmac on Luz Ardiden and propel you to victory. All those things will make you faster, they don’t make you win. Cycling is not some magical sport where as soon as a red blood cell agitating needle touches your vein you’re vaulted into the ranks of legends. Cycling is like every other sport in existence, there are amateurs and professionals. The professionals are so much better than the amateurs that it is literally impossible for us to understand the scope of their competitive level. All of the pharmaceuticals in the world aren’t going to turn me into a professional bike racer let alone a multiple Tour champion. There is a reason there are so few dominant athletes across the sporting spectrum. They all share a insatiable ferocity that equates losing with failure. It is not enough to just win, they must destroy. Jordan, Federer, Woods, Schumacher and Merckx (who tested positive let’s remember) all athletes who relished the opportunity to exhibit the superiority of their talent. The list of sporting legends is short because becoming one is so damn impossible. Doping doesn’t make champions otherwise I would have been on the cover of Wheaties boxes years ago.

Lance not only did something which has never been done in cycling but he also was the reason so many of you probably even know what the sport is right now. And rather than fading into mild obscurity only to emerge selling half decent bikes with his name emblazoned across the down tube like so many other past champions he funneled his fame and efforts into a cause that affects nearly each and every one of us at some level. Does doping change the fact that he beat cancer? Does doping change the fact that he decided he wouldn’t die? Does cancer give a shit if he doped? And before you talk about how his inspiration was fueled by deception lets just remember that World War II was ended by an lifelong alcoholic and a rampant philanderer. They did know a thing or two about great quotes though.

http://rittecycles.com/lance-armstrong/

[dead man walking]

two different things, whether lance is an amazing athlete and whether he is clean as he asserts.

the first is true. the second isn't, as you acknowledge.

the icon that is lance is threatened because of the man who lance is.

[Protobuilder]

USADA has a pretty fair amount of physical evidence and an extremely low standard of "proof" The decision of the DOJ to back off is clearly political.

Here's a nice bit of write up...

Doping will undoubtedly make you a faster cyclist, no argument there. What doping won’t do though is make you win the Tour de France 7 times in a row. A higher hematocrit doesn’t instill in someone a maniacal drive to not just succeed but dominate. HGH doesn’t help you climb back from the edge of near certain death and come back to the sport you love to not just compete but win. Corticosteroids don’t lift you off the tarmac on Luz Ardiden and propel you to victory. All those things will make you faster, they don’t make you win. Cycling is not some magical sport where as soon as a red blood cell agitating needle touches your vein you’re vaulted into the ranks of legends. Cycling is like every other sport in existence, there are amateurs and professionals. The professionals are so much better than the amateurs that it is literally impossible for us to understand the scope of their competitive level. All of the pharmaceuticals in the world aren’t going to turn me into a professional bike racer let alone a multiple Tour champion. There is a reason there are so few dominant athletes across the sporting spectrum. They all share a insatiable ferocity that equates losing with failure. It is not enough to just win, they must destroy. Jordan, Federer, Woods, Schumacher and Merckx (who tested positive let’s remember) all athletes who relished the opportunity to exhibit the superiority of their talent. The list of sporting legends is short because becoming one is so damn impossible. Doping doesn’t make champions otherwise I would have been on the cover of Wheaties boxes years ago.

Lance not only did something which has never been done in cycling but he also was the reason so many of you probably even know what the sport is right now. And rather than fading into mild obscurity only to emerge selling half decent bikes with his name emblazoned across the down tube like so many other past champions he funneled his fame and efforts into a cause that affects nearly each and every one of us at some level. Does doping change the fact that he beat cancer? Does doping change the fact that he decided he wouldn’t die? Does cancer give a shit if he doped? And before you talk about how his inspiration was fueled by deception lets just remember that World War II was ended by an lifelong alcoholic and a rampant philanderer. They did know a thing or two about great quotes though.

http://rittecycles.com/lance-armstrong/

[DARTH]

So they have samples but from how long ago? Was there a trustable guard on the samples from the time taken to today?

A couple of weasels and a few pissed off and pissed on 2nd Banannas from his old teams say he did drugs but do they have proof?

We could all decide Gene fucked his Mom, get 10 of together to say he did but it proves nothing other than 10 guys don't like him. (And these 10 get something out of it, either their offenses excussed or the same BS pushed on them.)

If they did not catch him while he was active then this is all bullshit.

Maybe he did and maybe he did not but with this screwed up metric the USADA is pushing one would have to give him the bennifit of the doubt.

The man is a fucking Hero, maybe not the charge the pillbox, risk your life sense but in the "Look what he did, look what he beat, look how he came back, how hard he trained and look how he ruled his sport, did well in others and banged quality tail while doing so" he is.

It's Not About the Bike is a book I will require my children to read and I will use the rest as an example of why manytimes you have to say "Fuck the system!"

[Mickey O'neil]

USADA has a pretty fair amount of physical evidence and an extremely low standard of "proof" The decision of the DOJ to back off is clearly political.

Here's a nice bit of write up...

Doping will undoubtedly make you a faster cyclist, no argument there. What doping won’t do though is make you win the Tour de France 7 times in a row. A higher hematocrit doesn’t instill in someone a maniacal drive to not just succeed but dominate. HGH doesn’t help you climb back from the edge of near certain death and come back to the sport you love to not just compete but win. Corticosteroids don’t lift you off the tarmac on Luz Ardiden and propel you to victory. All those things will make you faster, they don’t make you win. Cycling is not some magical sport where as soon as a red blood cell agitating needle touches your vein you’re vaulted into the ranks of legends. Cycling is like every other sport in existence, there are amateurs and professionals. The professionals are so much better than the amateurs that it is literally impossible for us to understand the scope of their competitive level. All of the pharmaceuticals in the world aren’t going to turn me into a professional bike racer let alone a multiple Tour champion. There is a reason there are so few dominant athletes across the sporting spectrum. They all share a insatiable ferocity that equates losing with failure. It is not enough to just win, they must destroy. Jordan, Federer, Woods, Schumacher and Merckx (who tested positive let’s remember) all athletes who relished the opportunity to exhibit the superiority of their talent. The list of sporting legends is short because becoming one is so damn impossible. Doping doesn’t make champions otherwise I would have been on the cover of Wheaties boxes years ago.

Lance not only did something which has never been done in cycling but he also was the reason so many of you probably even know what the sport is right now. And rather than fading into mild obscurity only to emerge selling half decent bikes with his name emblazoned across the down tube like so many other past champions he funneled his fame and efforts into a cause that affects nearly each and every one of us at some level. Does doping change the fact that he beat cancer? Does doping change the fact that he decided he wouldn’t die? Does cancer give a shit if he doped? And before you talk about how his inspiration was fueled by deception lets just remember that World War II was ended by an lifelong alcoholic and a rampant philanderer. They did know a thing or two about great quotes though.

http://rittecycles.com/lance-armstrong/

Very nice.

[tough old man]

I am wearing my "Livestrong" t shirt all weekend in support of Lance.

[Blaidd Drwg]

Darf and turd's horrible naivte notwithstasnding, there is no doubt in anyone's mind who follows the sport that LA reaped what he sowed, that he doped like everyone else and he is without peer as the greatest tour rider ever. Not the greatest cyclist by a fair margin, that honor belongs to another known doper, Eddie Merckx.

Life is so much easier to understand when you accept that a hero and a heel can be the same guy.

[dead man walking]

well said.

[Turdacious]

Darf and turd's horrible naivte notwithstasnding, there is no doubt in anyone's mind who follows the sport that LA reaped what he sowed, that he doped like everyone else and he is without peer as the greatest tour rider ever. Not the greatest cyclist by a fair margin, that honor belongs to another known doper, Eddie Merckx.

Life is so much easier to understand when you accept that a hero and a heel can be the same guy.

More like there is a difference between 'guilty' and 'proven guilty through proper procedure.'