Not too early to call it....

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

Webb was squashed because running as a Dixiecrat in 2015 doesn't appeal to anyone. The idea that there's this silent base of working-class white guys who just wish they had an old white Democrat to vote for is false.

Last I checked old white Democrats were the only choices they were getting.

I thought I posted this but apparently it did not go through--Hillary is one year younger than Jim Webb and Webb is a far healthier human in body and spirit than that evil thing.

[The Ginger Beard Man]

Webb was squashed because running as a Dixiecrat in 2015 doesn't appeal to anyone. The idea that there's this silent base of working-class white guys who just wish they had an old white Democrat to vote for is false.

Last I checked old white Democrats were the only choices they were getting.

I thought I posted this but apparently it did not go through--Hillary is one year younger than Jim Webb and Webb is a far healthier human in body and spirit than that evil thing.

Bernie is an old white non-democrat.
Or is he a Jew first, and therefore not white?

[dead man walking]

bernie is a secular jew.

polish relatives killed during the holocaust

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

bernie is a secular jew.

polish relatives killed during the holocaust

He is a 'secular jew who happens to be a good 6 years older than Jimmy Webb.

[dead man walking]

perhaps, but he ran a much better campaign than webb, which is why he is still in the race.

age is not the issue.

however much you like webb, there aren't enough guys like you.

did you donate to his campaign

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

perhaps, but he ran a much better campaign than webb, which is why he is still in the race.

age is not the issue.

however much you like webb, there aren't enough guys like you.

did you donate to his campaign

See? This is why we need a guy like Cleaner back in here (not intending to put him on the spot in any way)....you're all about the sound bytes and sizzle and let's face it "Feeling the Bern" has sizzle in a Kohl's or Target shopping spree kinda way.

Absolutely fucking fuckity fuck no.....I will *never* donate dollars to a politician. I did provide security to Rudy G. a couple of times off duty when he was running against the Dink, though.

[dead man walking]

you're missing the point: campaigning is theatre. politicians are actors.

so if webb can't attract support, he's irrelevant, no matter how intelligent or noble he is.

and if you don't contribute to or participate in the electoral politics, then you basically have agreed to accept what you get.

[DrDonkeyLove]

you're missing the point: campaigning is theatre. politicians are actors.

so if webb can't attract support, he's irrelevant, no matter how intelligent or noble he is.

and if you don't contribute to or participate in the electoral politics, then you basically have agreed to accept what you get.

And what horrible actors we've selected.

When it comes to participation in Prez politics, if you live in a hard red or blue state, you are irrelevant. I live in NY where the nominee could be a most deceitful and evil witch whose cackle could freeze the bowels of Satan himself and she'd win the state. Coincidentally, this is exactly who they'll nominate and she will win the state.

My vote for a maniac with a red panda glued to his head will be a waste of time.

[dead man walking]

you're missing the point: campaigning is theatre. politicians are actors.

so if webb can't attract support, he's irrelevant, no matter how intelligent or noble he is.

and if you don't contribute to or participate in the electoral politics, then you basically have agreed to accept what you get.

And what horrible actors we've selected.

When it comes to participation in Prez politics, if you live in a hard red or blue state, you are irrelevant. I live in NY where the nominee could be a most deceitful and evil witch whose cackle could freeze the bowels of Satan himself and she'd win the state. Coincidentally, this is exactly who they'll nominate and she will win the state.

My vote for a maniac with a red panda glued to his head will be a waste of time.

fair point.

the collective "we" have chosen a lot of bad actors. (trump, for all his supposed candor, may be the most accomplished actor of all. he's a reality tv star, the kardashian of prez politics.)

is an individual able to make a difference? yes, if he or she wants to work feverishly at it. most of us eat what is served.

vt is so small and largely without vitriol in its politics that it feels like real democracy. of course, my vote doesn't mean squat in a national election, and the state's finances are fucked,

a vote for a trump, with that bleached merkin on his head, may not be material one way or the other.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

you're missing the point: campaigning is theatre. politicians are actors.

so if webb can't attract support, he's irrelevant, no matter how intelligent or noble he is.

and if you don't contribute to or participate in the electoral politics, then you basically have agreed to accept what you get.

I am not so sure that Webb could not 'attract support' as much as I am more inclined to believe the media has like the storyline of "Feeling the Bern" and that Hill is already pre-annointed by them (George Stepholomomotomus, anyone?). How ironic that this election has a bunch of stodgy old white establishment politicians on the dem side and mostly young, energetic, and oft people of various shades of color on the Repub side. I truly hope Rubio does not get nominated as the guy for the repubs for two reasons:

1. I generally think he's a sensible man and has the chops for the job; but he needs a little more ageing and a bit of 'meanness' to him. 4 years down the road, he might be ripe for the spot.
2. If (and possibly when) a Repub wins the next election, the media will spend 4 years slaughtering that person and I am not being hyperbolic. I'd really rather see a useless ass like Bernie get the job......he'd be fairly harmless and even as a secular Jew, he's not going to let the Muslims push us around the way The Obama has allowed.

Lastly, WRT 'accepting what I get' that is utter bullshit and one of the primary things that is wrong with politics in America. I am all about less laws, not more, but if we can revamp things to forbid these huge campaign contributions, I'd be all for that. Shit, I would even accept a dollar for dollar deal where every buck you give to your boy's campaign, you have to give a buck to a program to get homeless veterans off the street.

[dead man walking]

you're missing the point: campaigning is theatre. politicians are actors.

so if webb can't attract support, he's irrelevant, no matter how intelligent or noble he is.

and if you don't contribute to or participate in the electoral politics, then you basically have agreed to accept what you get.

I am not so sure that Webb could not 'attract support' as much as I am more inclined to believe the media has like the storyline of "Feeling the Bern" and that Hill is already pre-annointed by them (George Stepholomomotomus, anyone?).

i would simply point to the fact that webb did not attract support. he failed in that regard.

yes, he did have to overcome others' expectations. you're right that some had pre-annointed hillary, and given her wide connections, webb had a tough path. his debate performances were panned--he's not a good actor, apparently.

exactly how "feel the bern" caught on is a bit of a mystery to me. many in vt are amazed he's still in it.

seems to me bernie, who is still a 60s radical, is simply the "occupy" crowd dressed in a candidate's costume. he speaks for many--including you--who hate what money has done to politics. you should vote him. get the money out of politics.

then step 2, you can get the government out of your life. good luck with that, eh.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

HA! I have said here, on Bookface, and in RL that I might vote for him but pretty much for every reason he doesn't stand for. I think getting that old dolt into office might inspire true 'change' in the executive branch.....meaning, I think aside from possibly getting some good discussions on tax reforms and corporate pork (to include the climate change pork, BTW), then we might get somewhere with the prez after this one. This next prez needs to do one thing and one thing only: be ballsy with terrorists. Americans will manage their day to days, per usual.

[Pinky]

I thought this piece from 538 basically summed up Webb's problems. He appeals to people who aren't Democrats anymore. While I can't argue that he's run a very good campaign, I don't think it would have mattered.

Meanwhile, Sanders is also not great on the campaign trail, but he very much appeals to the typical white guy who's stayed with the Democratic party.

[TerryB]

Meanwhile, Sanders is also not great on the campaign trail, but he very much appeals to the typical white guy who's stayed with the Democratic party.

Really? Middle-aged+ white guys are big socialists? That's news.

I figured his base was primarily stupid young people and the unemployed who need someone to blame.

[dead man walking]

i think it's probably fair to say that bernie appeals to long-time dems like union members and also to younger voters anxious and angry about today's seemingly limited economic prospects.

what i think mostly is that voters hear a candidate say something they like and project their beliefs and hopes on this unreal icon created in their imaginations.

it's irrational. like life.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

i think it's probably fair to say that bernie appeals to long-time dems like union members and also to younger voters anxious and angry about today's seemingly limited economic prospects.

what i think mostly is that voters hear a candidate say something they like and project their beliefs and hopes on this unreal icon created in their imaginations.

it's irrational. like life.

You nailed it with the term "seemingly": one of the reasons I am such a colossal asshole regarding 'gimmie, gimmie, gimmie' liberals is I honestly didn't grow-up with much, nor did most of my friends. "Lower Middle Class", if you will. I never went to college and figured shit out by way of fire, maneuver, and heads-down grinding. So did my little bro, who got a Masters degree and worked his way through school from get go to become a physical therapist. FUCK these lazy little shits who think there are 'limited economic prospects'.....I see opportunities for regular Joe's and Jane's to make money all over the place....near daily, in fact. And while I'm at it, for the most part fuck union asshats, too.

[dead man walking]

considering you didn't grow up in a great and inspiring america city, unlike some of us, you seem to have done pretty good.

i see rural poor. they can be infuriating, but a lot of them are simply unequipped.

you know what the local girls say when their having sex: easy pop, you're crushing my smokes.

[milosz]

I see opportunities for regular Joe's and Jane's to make money all over the place....near daily, in fact.

You seem to confuse anecdotes with data.



Forty years of stagnant wages for the vast majority of the populace while real world inflation (housing, etc.) has been obscene.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

considering you didn't grow up in a great and inspiring america city, unlike some of us, you seem to have done pretty good.

i see rural poor. they can be infuriating, but a lot of them are simply unequipped.

you know what the local girls say when their having sex: easy pop, you're crushing my smokes.

LOL...I appreciate the depth of snark of your first sentence. Now go punch a side of beef.

After the Marines, then after the NYPD, as a civilian, I lived in North Carolina, Texas, and Minnesota. People need to be willing to do what they gotta do, vs. sit around and whine about their 'situation'.

Honestly, "unequipped" is meaningless. Fuckers can manage a McDonald's in less than 4 years without any formal education and make more money than most cops or firefighters with triple that level of experience.

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

I see opportunities for regular Joe's and Jane's to make money all over the place....near daily, in fact.

You seem to confuse anecdotes with data.



Forty years of stagnant wages for the vast majority of the populace while real world inflation (housing, etc.) has been obscene.

You seem to confuse the real wold with Excel. Given I am 48, I fit well in your little timeframe.

Let's assume for a second your graph is correct. Still, the vast majority of people manage to get by without handouts, without mom's and/or dad's help, and without doing crime 'to get by'.

Now me, or people like me, could sit there and whine or brood, choosing to be the person who can just fucking get shit done is the far better option. I'm in no way perfect, buy I will never cost you, as a taxpayer, anything.

[milosz]

According to Glassfoor, Mickey D's managers (even assuming there's an actual four year path to management) are salaried at mid-$40k pay - median pay for pigs is $10k more for fewer hours and lucrative side-jobs for which local businesses are shaken down to hire cops (security, traffic direction).

[dead man walking]

you may be right about there being no such thing as unequipped, except in rare circumstances. perhaps unequipped and profoundly fucked up as a result of a gruesome childhood are different. i gotta think about this.

now vote for bernie.

i don't know what i'll do. i have voted for a couple r's in my lifetime, but this crop is ugly.

[milosz]

You seem to confuse the real wold with Excel.

Ohhh... you're one of those people.

Still, the vast majority of people manage to get by without handouts, without mom's and/or dad's help, and without doing crime 'to get by'.

I don't know how this is supposed to be relevant. You're so hostile to facts and tied up in your own bravado of 'getting by' and 'bootstrapping' that you actively support people acting against your economic interests. Good job!

[The Venerable Bogatir X]

You seem to confuse the real wold with Excel.

Ohhh... you're one of those people.

Still, the vast majority of people manage to get by without handouts, without mom's and/or dad's help, and without doing crime 'to get by'.

I don't know how this is supposed to be relevant. You're so hostile to facts and tied up in your own bravado of 'getting by' and 'bootstrapping' that you actively support people acting against your economic interests. Good job!

Really?

What gives you this perspective? Are you a 30 y/o auditor or something?

I have nothing against 'data' but will always challenge its source and you should consider doing the same.

And, while I'm not "hostile", I am not exactly feeling sorry for millennials--in terms of 'having things' they all have it pretty good. In terms of having 'chops', there is seemingly a cause for concern (no matter how many Affliction shirts they own), save our young veterans, of course.

How many Affliction shirts you got, Holmes?

[TerryB]

So much whining amongst the Bernie supporters.

You know who had it rough? The settlers. They had it rough. They had "limited economic prospects." They wound up building something pretty cool because God favored them over the native savages.

All these little Bernie supporters need is a little more real life and little less government assistance.