IGX

Schlegel wrote:[There's no need for extra pain, and the action as guitars leave the factory not only causes unneeded pain, it causes incorrect intonation.

OMG! A beginner's guitar might have slightly incorrect intonation!! Newsflash, Smeagol: Any beginner's guitar is going to sound like shit b/c they don't know how to play it properly. Segovia might notice it. A n00b will not, nor would it matter b/c even if he had a guitar with the best intonation in the world, he's not going to be able to hear it b/c he sucks, as we all did when we started.

Schlegel wrote: they're not recovering from the pressure damage. You've increased the volume of practice too rapidly. Back off, and then gradually increase practice times. Why give yourself constant tissue and nerve damage?

You are a giant sopping vagina. "pressure damage"?? "tissue and nerve damage"?? LMAO Just play the fucking guitar, lasalle. YOu'll adapt. Contrary to Smeagol, you won't suffer permanently disabling pressure damage, tissue damage, or nerve damage. You'll just get callouses quicker and your fingers will toughen up and you'll be just fine.

Thanks to all for the always entertaining education.

I held off on the tweaks because I wanted to see what the teacher said after seeing me in person. He's recommending we keep it as is for now.

I'm down to one tingling/dead finger 18 hours after practice. Yes, likely pushing too hard.

This shit is difficult. I've got some big-ass fingers and damn there's not much room in those frets. But I'm keeping telling myself that if a moron like Eddie Van Halen can make it sound like that, I should be able to knock out "you really got me" within a year.

I suggest you drop the acoustic and pick up Guitar Hero instead. Why make things harder on yourself?

Maybe if you clicked more links you'd be less ignorant.

Check out SRV's fingertips at the 7:55 mark.

OH fuck! I just remembered that Smeagol is the cancer guy!

Sorry!

I am going to hell anyway but I still try not to be a TOTAL cunt

burn it to stay warm and save yourself years of grief and mediocre guitar playing

protobuilder wrote:OH fuck! I just remembered that Smeagol is the cancer guy!

Sorry!

I am going to hell anyway but I still try not to be a TOTAL cunt

Are you sure spelling his handle wrong and calling him the cancer guy is an improvement?

Some random tips:

Instead of learning ten songs at once in a half-assed fashion, focus on one song and really nail it before moving on to the next one. It'll take a while to really nail the first song, but every song after will be quicker and quicker.

Learn entire songs and not just little riffs/bits from songs. Don't be that asshole who rattles off unrelated riffs in a rapid fire fashion in guitar stores (I have been that asshole).

When learning a song, play along with the recording to help get it down and get all the nuances. Use slowdown software.

Learn to sing while playing ASAP, even if you think you have a shitty voice. I put it off for years, and I regret it. Singing while playing gives a much more 'complete' experience and is a lot of fun.

Good luck, have a blast and rock out with your cock out.

This C Major bullshit is ridiculous. I am not a double jointed circus freak. That is all.

protobuilder wrote:So you didn't take all the great advice to have your guitar tuned, tweaked, rebuilt, filed down, and restrung before learning to play?

Amazingly stupid suggestion really. Thousands and thousands of people have learned to play, and play well, without any fancy crap and without having the action lowered. Ridiculous.

Yes it's normal to have finger pain. You're pressing down hard and often on thin metal wires with your fingertips. It takes awhile but gets easier with time, like anything else.

I bet Sclegel could play circles around you judging by your advice. I heard the same shit my first 2 years from some of my friends who were playing before me. Yeah well my ass was on stage before them because I got smart, got my shit set up right and made way more progress than my contemoraries. Lot's of people have learned to play on shit boxes but those people would have made better progress with a proper set up. You make the point about a beginer's ears not being able to notice much difference but this is exactly how that skill is acheived, by playing a properly set guitar. Lot's of people used shit boxes because they did not have the money for better or the old "I played with action you can drive a truck through, so should you." Fucking bonehead shit. My biggest mistake as a beginer was not learning about set ups and intonation sooner because once I did I took off. Shit you are more likely to play if everything feels better and sounds better. You are rewarded more for your practice.

J. Mascis from Dinosour Jr. almost had to quit playing because he had fucked his fingers up with high action and monster guage strings. I forget his name, but one of the many lead guitarist for KISS had to quit becuase of tendon and nerve damage. It's not a joke. SRV was notorious for huge, thick strings and high action but he built up to that over years of playing since childhood. He was playing for more than 20 years when he switched from 24 3/4 scale Gibson guitars to 25 1/2 scale Fenders and it was a few more years before he started setting his ction high and putting on cables for strings. Keep in mind he played for hours a day and had big hands.

Now I say this as someone who uses a medium low action and heavier than normal strings, but I had built up to that over years and years. Even though I quit for more than 10 years, I was back to 10.5-48s in standard in a few months.

DARTH wrote:

protobuilder wrote:So you didn't take all the great advice to have your guitar tuned, tweaked, rebuilt, filed down, and restrung before learning to play?

Amazingly stupid suggestion really. Thousands and thousands of people have learned to play, and play well, without any fancy crap and without having the action lowered. Ridiculous.

Yes it's normal to have finger pain. You're pressing down hard and often on thin metal wires with your fingertips. It takes awhile but gets easier with time, like anything else.

I bet Sclegel could play circles around you judging by your advice. I heard the same shit my first 2 years from some of my friends who were playing before me. Yeah well my ass was on stage before them because I got smart, got my shit set up right and made way more progress than my contemoraries. Lot's of people have learned to play on shit boxes but those people would have made better progress with a proper set up. You make the point about a beginer's ears not being able to notice much difference but this is exactly how that skill is acheived, by playing a properly set guitar. Lot's of people used shit boxes because they did not have the money for better or the old "I played with action you can drive a truck through, so should you." Fucking bonehead shit. My biggest mistake as a beginer was not learning about set ups and intonation sooner because once I did I took off. Shit you are more likely to play if everything feels better and sounds better. You are rewarded more for your practice.

J. Mascis from Dinosour Jr. almost had to quit playing because he had fucked his fingers up with high action and monster guage strings. I forget his name, but one of the many lead guitarist for KISS had to quit becuase of tendon and nerve damage. It's not a joke. SRV was notorious for huge, thick strings and high action but he built up to that over years of playing since childhood. He was playing for more than 20 years when he switched from 24 3/4 scale Gibson guitars to 25 1/2 scale Fenders and it was a few more years before he started setting his ction high and putting on cables for strings. Keep in mind he played for hours a day and had big hands.

Now I say this as someone who uses a medium low action and heavier than normal strings, but I had built up to that over years and years. Even though I quit for more than 10 years, I was back to 10.5-48s in standard in a few months.

Sound advice. But what about this fucking C Major? Can it be mastered?

there are some good points on this thread.

The whole just play don't practice thing has worked for lot's of folks but those folks would still be better served if they put in a little practice.


Try endeavouring for the following, not militantly adherence but as a general guide.

1/4 of your guitar time should be scales and chord study and practice.
This helps you train your fingers, ear and fretboard mapping.

1/4 of your time learning cover songs using a combo of guitar tab and playing with the cd.
This helps with the above and gives you something to play with other musicians in the future.

1/4 of your time just playing along with a cd, not so much trying to copy the guitarist note fo note but playing as if you are sitting in with the band and are out to do your own thing with in this context. This helps you be flexable and develope your own style.

1/4 Just fucking around and playing, maybe coming up with your own songs. This, to me is what it's all about, making your own music. You can play Jimmy Page licks all you want but you will never be Jimmy Page. You are You and you can be the best Yoou there is.

So if I have an hour it's 15 minutes of scales and chord progression, 15 of working on a song I am learning, 15 more just playing allong with same song or jamming out on something else and the last 15 letting my fingers drive while your head and soul navigate. I try to follow this model 3 times a week for 1-2 hours and the rest f my guitar and Bass time is just jamming and writting songs. I also will play around while watching TV.

You can also do the Mon 1/2 Scale and chords, 1/2 Playing. Tues Learning a song. Weds Just playing. ThursdayOFF Friday 1/2 scales and chords, 1/2 covers. Sat Scake and chords, Cover, Play. Sun. Play.

No mater what, do warm up for 2-5 minutes with scales and finger drills.

Now again this is an ideal, for me playing wins out. I spend the most actual time doing this but when I do the first 3 before playing I always play better.

Lessons can be helpfull but I also know people who have taken lessons for years and can't play for shit. One buddy was taught the notes to a solo but could not even play the song. I told him it's better to know the chords and be able to play and just use the blues box to solo over it than to know the Maxolydian scale back and forth but not even be able to crank out a AC/DC.

Other than 3 lesson's when I was 6 I did not take formal guitar lessons untill I had been playing more than 5 years and was playing out, other than 4 from a local guy for bong hits. I learned by trial and error, tips here and there from friends, going to see bands rehearse, watching guitarist on TV (I learned alot from Sid in the old Late Night w/ David Lettermen Band) and playing with others. The lessons I took later was for 2 months and was for more dexterity drills and better fretboard mapping.

On thing I have been playing with now is an idea I got from a Steve Vai interview. He said you should sing the notes while playing scales, modes and chords. He says it helps your ear training and helps you to internalize the notes. This also goes with the point one of the guys said about singing and playing. I took along time before I could sing and play. It came not from practice but when your band rehearses as much as we did, you get a seperation of mind, where your playing, feeling it but also part of you is observing shit around you or thinking about something else. I just found myself singing along to the singer and then started doing back ups. I could not do this when I started again but the Vai idea is helping me to get it back. Not a great singer but I have a few voices that works with in a range so even though I prefer someone else sing lead I like being able to present a song I wrote to a band in as a complete manner as possable and I won't let lack of a dedicated singer stop me from getting a band/project off the ground.

Take all this in account that I played an accustic my first year and never looked back when I got an electric. When asked if I play lead or rythem i always reply "Electric". So we are playing similar insturments but not the same. I find accustics boring, I have a clean channel on my amp. I can do everything an accustic can and a ton of shit an accustic can never do. POWER!

lasalle wrote:

DARTH wrote:

protobuilder wrote:So you didn't take all the great advice to have your guitar tuned, tweaked, rebuilt, filed down, and restrung before learning to play?

Amazingly stupid suggestion really. Thousands and thousands of people have learned to play, and play well, without any fancy crap and without having the action lowered. Ridiculous.

Yes it's normal to have finger pain. You're pressing down hard and often on thin metal wires with your fingertips. It takes awhile but gets easier with time, like anything else.

I bet Sclegel could play circles around you judging by your advice. I heard the same shit my first 2 years from some of my friends who were playing before me. Yeah well my ass was on stage before them because I got smart, got my shit set up right and made way more progress than my contemoraries. Lot's of people have learned to play on shit boxes but those people would have made better progress with a proper set up. You make the point about a beginer's ears not being able to notice much difference but this is exactly how that skill is acheived, by playing a properly set guitar. Lot's of people used shit boxes because they did not have the money for better or the old "I played with action you can drive a truck through, so should you." Fucking bonehead shit. My biggest mistake as a beginer was not learning about set ups and intonation sooner because once I did I took off. Shit you are more likely to play if everything feels better and sounds better. You are rewarded more for your practice.

J. Mascis from Dinosour Jr. almost had to quit playing because he had fucked his fingers up with high action and monster guage strings. I forget his name, but one of the many lead guitarist for KISS had to quit becuase of tendon and nerve damage. It's not a joke. SRV was notorious for huge, thick strings and high action but he built up to that over years of playing since childhood. He was playing for more than 20 years when he switched from 24 3/4 scale Gibson guitars to 25 1/2 scale Fenders and it was a few more years before he started setting his ction high and putting on cables for strings. Keep in mind he played for hours a day and had big hands.

Now I say this as someone who uses a medium low action and heavier than normal strings, but I had built up to that over years and years. Even though I quit for more than 10 years, I was back to 10.5-48s in standard in a few months.

Sound advice. But what about this fucking C Major? Can it be mastered?

Sure, it's called practice but you want to go for proficientcy first and mastery is a matter of opinion. People who hear me say I am really good but I do not claim to have masterd a thing. To me Joe Bonamassa,Brian Setzer, Joe Satriani, Eric Clapton, Mark Knophler,Tommy Emmnauel, Steve Vai and Steve Craddock are guitar masters. Many of my favorite players I would not consider masters of guitar, but they all have a sound and feel. Paul Weller, David Gilmour, Lee Ving, Kim Thayel,ect.

Just try to enjoy the little progressions you make. Run the scale a few times, then bang out some chords, go Punk rock a minute or two and then come back to the scale. This keeps shit FUN. Unless you are in a band, playing should be 90% Fun and 10% being able to be disciplined enough to do the less than fun things. Me I'm trying to make a go of it again so I do alot more of the less than fun stuff. I don't just want to be as good as I was years ago when I was leading a band, I want to be better, far better like as in the 10 year lay off never happend. Probably about 1/2 as good as I was now in about 6-8 months.

Keep at it.

DARTH: you are too old to be still trying to start your own band

DARTH wrote: Sure, it's called practice but you want to go for proficientcy first and mastery is a matter of opinion. People who hear me say I am really good but I do not claim to have masterd a thing.

If you love to play, this is a nice problem to have.

protobuilder wrote:DARTH: you are too old to be still trying to start your own band

Bullshit, it's actually better for alot of reasons.

1- Older, more muture, more life behind me to put into the music. I also see the past more clearly and have had alot of time to see what I did right and what I did wrong. I am more willing to cover areas I would not have before. I am more honest about my shortcomings.

2- More disciplined.

3- You put up with less bullshit when your older, so you wont waste time hoping your singer get's his problems together.

4- Music is something you can get better at as you age.

5- You have more resources. I can jam in my house so I don't need a seperate rehearsal space.

6. You can make your own LPs and put it out over the net. You can genrate intrest for shows via the internet. Unlike the old model of get in a van and tour your ass off to generate buzz, now you generate buzz with your music online and at local shows and then you can book gigs elsewhere, with none of the starving musician shit.

7- The music of my roots is on the upswing. Much like many Rock, Grunge and Metal musicians were influenced by old punk, which made a comeback when they were active, you now have an intrest in Thrash metal. Now this can help if I chose to play pure Thrash (Nope) or it makes those elements of it still present with my classic rock, acid jazz, blues, brit pop, ska and soul influences more palapable to non Thrash heads than when I was young.

8- Because it's one of my few short falls I can do something about.
Can't serve in combat arms, because of astma and an eye and now age as well. Not my fault.
But with music, I walked away after my band imploded and I could not get the right mix of people in Va.My fault.I gave up.
It worked out because I dove head first back into martial arts, something that became 2nd and 3rd to music when I was active. This allowed me to build a good base of proficientcy when my body was still able to handle that part of the journey. Now I can advance without being so hard on myself in training.
Now I know it's been a missing element to my life. It's Ying to MA's Yang. As an instructor you have to spend more time with the darker elements of the arts. You spend alot of time working on ways of doing bad shit to stop bad shit. Well I'm more than a fucking sword and I turned myself into a sword in the first place to defend the better parts of my nature and life. I don't want my kids to just see a guy who's either working, training for violence and studing warfare. I want to see all that and to see me make music and art as well as appriciate this from others.

Shit my kids will be trained potential killers when they leave my home. But I alos want them to be able to play an insturment or two and have an eye, ear, and nose for good art, music, literature and food.

Now I got to fuck off here, go get my kids from school aand get in some playing before teaching kids and adults to hurt assholes tonight.

DARTH wrote:Now I got to fuck off here, go get my kids from school aand get in some playing before teaching kids and adults to hurt assholes tonight.

You doing a clinic at Shape's place?

Darth, stop with the 1/4 this and 1/4 that. Playing guitar NEEDS to be fun. You need it to not physically hurt and to be something you like. For some, that's "making progress" in a traditional sense: this week it's pentatonic next week phrygian etc etc. My attitude - and I had a lot of natural talent, was FUCK theory. I play by ear. I play what I like ONLY. Sometimes, that's play rewind play rewind and 4 hours to figure out a DiMeola run. Mostly it's 4 hours of shit I like. I can play one piece for 6 months and enjoy it and not "make progress" to you. But that's ok because I'm NEVER going to turn guitar into work. I'm never going to have "had enough". I'll play when I can and when I like. I've been in bands, been told to "go pro" by tossers at parties who don't know anything. Just keep it fun. If you get and keep a passion, you'll do well. It's like fitness - consistency beats everything. Without playing, you're fucked. I will play right up to my death / murder / senility. And "In The Mood" (I'll record it Django style) will play me out to my cremation. Guitar is cheap therapy, chicks, escape, creative, showing off, personal, accomplishment, anarchic and for me, constant. It's a medium for expression, journey and fulfilment that should be like a boat ride where experienced players might give you an initial "push" into the water but should just then stand back and let you do your thing at your pace. Otherwise, it becomes a "have to". A task. And it is put aside.

Lots of good advice and encouragement here. Thanks.

For your troubles:

So I'm a few lessons in. Having a good time, making ridiculously slow progress but sticking with it.

I've finally been given two songs to work instead of just chords: House of the rising sun (teacher's choice) and Can't explain by the Who (my choice). So the question is: at this stage do you recommend a pick or just finger picking? Both?

"Just finger picking" is a bit misleading. It's harder to fingerpick than to strum. Do you mean pick out notes with the plectrum (I'm thinking House of the Rising Sun in particular)? I really don't think you're going to prejudice yourself here. Just do what you want to do at this moment. If using a pick gives you a nicer sound for you and a better buzz from playing then just go with it. Or vice versa. I was a metal head for a long time and then went back to fingerpicking then plec then back fingerpicking. Whatever way you go, the other way is still there for you. Don't believe a teacher who says you have to do shit now or ever. You don't. Your priority is to keep enjoying it every time you pick up the guitar and then you'll still be playing in 10 years' time.