IGX

protobuilder wrote:I know most of you faggots are over 50 and don't appreciate metal but here you go.

I was thinking Flo as soon as I saw the title of this thread.

Another great metal drummer, one of my favorites, is George Kollias of Nile. I think he's one of the most technically proficient drummers there is.

Nick Mason

Forget about Metal Protofavg.

Something completely different from heavy metal. Jazz-ish. The drums in this song are excellent.

Mickey O'neil wrote:Nick Mason

About time he was mentioned in this thread. One of the best in his time but he became a lazy git and was useless by 86 to the point that they needed another drummer and a percussionist on the Delecate Sound of Thunder tour. I have a very good friend who worked personal security for Gilmour on that tour and he said the mics on Mason's kit were not even run into the main board, just to the stage board and Mason's own monitors so he could hear himself play with his old band. Gilmour brought him along out of friendship and the cache of having 3 members of the Floyd so they could be billed as Pink Floyd and not Daivd Gilmour and Rick Wright of Pink Floyd.

The clips from Live at Pomnpeii are awesome and you can see where a young Neil Peart got his major non Keith Moon influences and choice in facial hair and hairstyle (They look like brothers).

Other bad mofos (And I never judge by drum solos as drum solos are very Ghey)
Neil Peart OF COARSE
Ginger Baker- Cream, Blind Faith.
Dave Lombardo- Slayer (South of Heaven has some of his best work)
Filthy Phil Taylor- The real Mororhead drummer.
Matt Cameron- Soundgarden
Tim "Herb" Alexander- Primus
Keth Moon - The Who
Steve White - The Style Councel, Paul Weller
John Bonham - If I have to tell you, killl yourself.
Jason Bonham - Black Country Communion
Ansley Dunbar- Zappa
Mick Fleetwood - Fleetwood Mac
Gene Hogglbloom- Dark Angel
Matt Sorum - The Cult
Stephen Perkins - Jane's Addiction
Simon Kirk - Bad Company
Dave Grohl - Them Crooked Vultures
Topper Headon - The Clash
Paul Cook - The Sex Pistols
Paul Bosotph - Exodus
John Densmore - The Doors
Ringo Starr- The Beatles (He did exactly what was needed for the music and never got inot the "My bass drum is bigger." shit.)
Cosmo- Creedence Clearwater Revival
Nico McBrain - Iron Maidan
Carmine Appice - Beck,Bogart, Appice
Stuart Copeland - The Police

I guess we're just naming any old drummer now? I have a friend who's pretty good at drums - why hasn't he been mentioned?

Nick Mason is nobody special. He barely wrote any of their material, his beats are unmemorable, and the songs don't even lend themselves to good drum work. There's a reason drummers don't like playing Pink Floyd songs.

Neil

DARTH wrote: (And I never judge by drum solos as drum solos are very Ghey)

Are you batshit crazy? Wait, don't answer that. ;-)

Please see that Buddy Rich solo I posted and watch in awe. NO ONE can duplicate what Buddy did in that 3+ minutes. Even in death, the Jew from Brooklyn FTW in the drum wars.

All due respect to Buddy Rich, who was a very talented drummr and an important part of the chain of the development of modern set drumming, he still played old folks music and 99%of all drum solos, no mater who is playing, suck and are beat off fest. Much like unaccompanied guitar solos I'm a guitarist but hate 80% of those.

Now Kreator, is this s thread that encompasses many factors, like how good the music they played on was in the first place? Technique, Style, Impact on those who came after ect? or are we just going on pure technique?

If it's pure technique than this would be a thread without most rock or metal drummers and nothing but jazz and Jazz Fussion drummers would be listed.

Yes I have played with drummers who find Pink Floyd borring, they are usually tech heads with all the feel of a $5 Whore. They can't hold back for the good of the song and they tend to be as subtle as a tweaked out elephant in a china shop. I always fired them PDQ for being uniteresting technicians over musicians.

See Peart is pretty technical but he makes it fit the song, the song dictates his technique and not the other way around and he, like Moon had an ability to "frame" the vocals, very rare in a drummer, most dont give a fuck if they can hear the singer and if they do it's usually for ques as to where in the song they are.

Why do only Guitar heads for the most part know who Yngvee Malmsteen is but most who have spun and LP know who Jimmy Page is? Because Yngvee had shit for songs, mostly a bunch of riffs and neoclassical sounding runs and interludes bundled with shit lyrics whereas Page had fucking songs that ment something. Many would consider Malmsteen the better player but if I had to chose between having Page's abilities versus Malmsteen's it's Page hands down. You could play like a mutherfawker and have the ability to write, arrange and collaberate on great songs that people have important memories with. With Malmsteen you could shred but most people who were into you look at you as a phase before getting into better music and most wont look at you at all.

That said every drummer on my list was beyond profficient but their rating is on a total package and not the speed of their paradiddles or double kick technique (Gene from Dark Angel had double kick from Hell, as you hear from him in Dethklock now.)

Dave Grohl
Taylor Hawkins

DARTH wrote:All due respect to Buddy Rich, who was a very talented drummr and an important part of the chain of the development of modern set drumming, he still played old folks music and 99%of all drum solos, no mater who is playing, suck and are beat off fest. Much like unaccompanied guitar solos I'm a guitarist but hate 80% of those.

Now Kreator, is this s thread that encompasses many factors, like how good the music they played on was in the first place? Technique, Style, Impact on those who came after ect? or are we just going on pure technique?

If it's pure technique than this would be a thread without most rock or metal drummers and nothing but jazz and Jazz Fussion drummers would be listed.

Yes I have played with drummers who find Pink Floyd borring, they are usually tech heads with all the feel of a $5 Whore. They can't hold back for the good of the song and they tend to be as subtle as a tweaked out elephant in a china shop. I always fired them PDQ for being uniteresting technicians over musicians.

See Peart is pretty technical but he makes it fit the song, the song dictates his technique and not the other way around and he, like Moon had an ability to "frame" the vocals, very rare in a drummer, most dont give a fuck if they can hear the singer and if they do it's usually for ques as to where in the song they are.

Why do only Guitar heads for the most part know who Yngvee Malmsteen is but most who have spun and LP know who Jimmy Page is? Because Yngvee had shit for songs, mostly a bunch of riffs and neoclassical sounding runs and interludes bundled with shit lyrics whereas Page had fucking songs that ment something. Many would consider Malmsteen the better player but if I had to chose between having Page's abilities versus Malmsteen's it's Page hands down. You could play like a mutherfawker and have the ability to write, arrange and collaberate on great songs that people have important memories with. With Malmsteen you could shred but most people who were into you look at you as a phase before getting into better music and most wont look at you at all.

That said every drummer on my list was beyond profficient but their rating is on a total package and not the speed of their paradiddles or double kick technique (Gene from Dark Angel had double kick from Hell, as you hear from him in Dethklock now.)

Yes I know the difference between technical ability and musicianship.
That's why I didn't bash Keith Moon, Jon Bonham, or Mick Mitchell. Compared to today's drummers they weren't that amazing technically speaking but they were highly innovative, wrote songs, and actually made you remember drum beats to certain songs. Everybody knows the drum beat to "Fire", "Moby Dick", "Whole Lotta Love" or "Baba O'Reilly". How many memorable beats or fills do you think people can name from Pink Floyd?
I'll admit Pink Floyd wasn't quite as popular as LZ, Who, or JHE but they are still one of the most popular rock bands of all time.

So I'm sticking to my point. Nick Mason was neither innovative nor memorable nor technically adept. So I would hardly put him on a list of the greatest drummers of all time.

Wow, you really hate Nick Mason.

I just put him on there because I like the video.

Just realized that I have to see Motorhead live someday.

I would like to see what the street drummers, who use an upturned 5 gallon plastic container as a drum could do with an actual set of drums. I would like to see how a skilled drummer would perform using just a bucket.

Judge for yourselves

kreator wrote:

DARTH wrote:All due respect to Buddy Rich, who was a very talented drummr and an important part of the chain of the development of modern set drumming, he still played old folks music and 99%of all drum solos, no mater who is playing, suck and are beat off fest. Much like unaccompanied guitar solos I'm a guitarist but hate 80% of those.

Now Kreator, is this s thread that encompasses many factors, like how good the music they played on was in the first place? Technique, Style, Impact on those who came after ect? or are we just going on pure technique?

If it's pure technique than this would be a thread without most rock or metal drummers and nothing but jazz and Jazz Fussion drummers would be listed.

Yes I have played with drummers who find Pink Floyd borring, they are usually tech heads with all the feel of a $5 Whore. They can't hold back for the good of the song and they tend to be as subtle as a tweaked out elephant in a china shop. I always fired them PDQ for being uniteresting technicians over musicians.

See Peart is pretty technical but he makes it fit the song, the song dictates his technique and not the other way around and he, like Moon had an ability to "frame" the vocals, very rare in a drummer, most dont give a fuck if they can hear the singer and if they do it's usually for ques as to where in the song they are.

Why do only Guitar heads for the most part know who Yngvee Malmsteen is but most who have spun and LP know who Jimmy Page is? Because Yngvee had shit for songs, mostly a bunch of riffs and neoclassical sounding runs and interludes bundled with shit lyrics whereas Page had fucking songs that ment something. Many would consider Malmsteen the better player but if I had to chose between having Page's abilities versus Malmsteen's it's Page hands down. You could play like a mutherfawker and have the ability to write, arrange and collaberate on great songs that people have important memories with. With Malmsteen you could shred but most people who were into you look at you as a phase before getting into better music and most wont look at you at all.

That said every drummer on my list was beyond profficient but their rating is on a total package and not the speed of their paradiddles or double kick technique (Gene from Dark Angel had double kick from Hell, as you hear from him in Dethklock now.)

Yes I know the difference between technical ability and musicianship.
That's why I didn't bash Keith Moon, Jon Bonham, or Mick Mitchell. Compared to today's drummers they weren't that amazing technically speaking but they were highly innovative, wrote songs, and actually made you remember drum beats to certain songs. Everybody knows the drum beat to "Fire", "Moby Dick", "Whole Lotta Love" or "Baba O'Reilly". How many memorable beats or fills do you think people can name from Pink Floyd?
I'll admit Pink Floyd wasn't quite as popular as LZ, Who, or JHE but they are still one of the most popular rock bands of all time.

So I'm sticking to my point. Nick Mason was neither innovative nor memorable nor technically adept. So I would hardly put him on a list of the greatest drummers of all time.

He was not a laime assed riff drummer he played for the fucking part. Have you ever seen Live at Pompeii? If you know fuck all about playing how ther fuck could you not give him his due for what he did in their early years? Now I did go on about how he became a lazy git and went to shit but in his prime he was fuking great as he did what a drummer is suppossed to do and play for the fucking song. No wI an remeber all kinds of beats and fills and his fills were allways to match the song. Watch Pompeii again and see if you can honestly say what you did. One Of These Days and Echoes fucking swing when he let's loose.

As far as people we knew, Alexandra Osuna was the best fucking drummer I played in a band with. Matt Cameron timing with fucking amazing bits of latin percussion within Jazz/Rock drumming. She fucking hit like a man and had real speed, not blast beat bullshit speed but I am talking keeping 2 counter rythems going with fucking fills. To say she had a gift is to say babe Ruth could hit a baseball.
I never had a better conection with a drummer ever. Never touched her but we musically fucked all the time. One time at practice the Bassist and singer were fucking off with some of our hangout crew so Alex and I start playing off the cuff. We went on for 20 minutes guiding each other intuitivly from riff to riff, breakdowns and etherial part back into the riffs. When we finished the Bassist and singer asked "When the fuck did you two come up with that shit? it must of taken even you (Me) fucking weeks to put it all together and arrang that shit."
"Cliff, we just came up with that shit. Get up and we will try it together." It took forever to get them doing it right.

Alas she was a chick and had chick problems so we eneded up with a guy half as good and a quarter as interesting but he was reliable. I swear to God I could have made it with her bashing skins behind me.

Bobby wrote:Just realized that I have to see Motorhead live someday.

Yes you fucking do! You owe it to yourself before Lemmy has a fucking heart attack banging a Whore while whiffing Tweak.

DARTH wrote: Now I did go on about how he became a lazy git and went to shit but in his prime he was fuking great as he did what a drummer is suppossed to do and play for the fucking song. No wI an remeber all kinds of beats and fills and his fills were allways to match the song.

I've also heard that argument made for Phil Rudd (AC\DC). Just because a drummer plays for the song doesn't mean he's one of the greatest drummers of all time.

DARTH wrote:

Bobby wrote:Just realized that I have to see Motorhead live someday.

Yes you fucking do! You owe it to yourself before Lemmy has a fucking heart attack banging a Whore while whiffing Tweak.

I saw them about 8 years ago. Pretty good, but they opened for Dio and Iron Maiden so it's hard to be memorable in that setup. Not to mention the fact that they like turning the treble down and the mid up so you can barely understand the song. But still a good band.

Turdacious wrote:Judge for yourselves

They are two incredibly accomplished drummers so there's really nothing to compare

Here's a great article to go with that video about Neil, he's a huge fan of Buddy

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/po ... rimage/P2/

Hymen Asshole wrote:

Turdacious wrote:Judge for yourselves

They are two incredibly accomplished drummers so there's really nothing to compare

Here's a great article to go with that video about Neil, he's a huge fan of Buddy

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/po ... rimage/P2/[/



I have a dvd with Peart playing Rich, he absolutly loved the guy, Kupra as well. He list seeing Sal Minnio as Gene Kupra and Buddy Rich as his earliest intrest in the drums. And then he discovered The Who and it was on. I have seen clips of him in his pre Rush band J.R. Flood. He played like a cross between Moon, Baker and Dunbar.

Caresses of Steel is where his own style started to shine through, hints on Fly By Night but Steel is the jumping of point.

There is simply a dearth of credit for Neil Peart's capabilities. In reality, the truth can be said for all three individually and for the band as a whole (just a little less so than for Peart as a drummer alone). My biased 2.5 centavos.

The Crawdaddy wrote:There is simply a dearth of credit for Neil Peart's capabilities. In reality, the truth can be said for all three individually and for the band as a whole (just a little less so than for Peart as a drummer alone). My biased 2.5 centavos.

Lifeson does not get the credit he deserves beause Peart and Lee are such monsters and heros of their insturment, both insturments dont have the shear number of heros that the guitar does so to many they stand out more than he.


But it's bulllshit perception and not reality because if you use the metrics of feel, tone, technial ability, personal style and the songs he is one of the best guitarist around and he has outlasted many of his old contemporaries.

All 3 of them probably would have made a mark in music seperatly but the great thing about Rush is it truly is a band that looks at itself as the sum of all 3 and not any one member. Alex and Geddy have been playing with each other since Jr. High. Their styles are like a marrage between the 2, they shaped each other and then Neil haelped them get to a whole nother level.

The mid to late 80s era did loose them alot of fans, many refer to Old Rush and New Rush and by much of those albums I can understand that (But there are things on Signals, Power Windows and Hold Your Fire that are exellent- First Rush song I learned all the way through was Distant Early Warrning) but Presto was a good album as was Roll the Bones and Counterparts is fucking great. The tone alone on that is great. Tesrt For Echos was good too.

Since Neil came out of his mourning they have done work I put right up with Moving Pictures.

I don't see an end untill one of them dies. I hope that is a long time because I think they will be still great in their 80s. Rock and Roll does have to be a young man's only game.

cunch wrote:

Tool is not at all my cup of tea, but that guy is smooth as hell. Nice post.