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To ranchers, the population growth of the Texas-raised antelopes tell the story: From 1979 to 2010, scimitar-horned oryxes increased from 32 to 11,032; addaxes, two to 5,112; and dama gazelles, nine to 894

But Friends of Animals, whose lawsuit prompted the rule change, has a radically different view of conservation.

"The reason these ranchers were given this loophole is because they were working to propagate the species," said Lee Hall, the group's vice president for legal affairs.

Asked about the increased size of the endangered antelope herds, Hall said, "That's true."

"But the question," she said, "is does that count as conservation, to live and thrive as members of a bio-community? It's merely commercial exploitation in a strange, macabre touristy world. We wouldn't call that conservation.

Reid is an architect and developer who led safaris to Africa for five years. The name Morani, which came from Reid's time in Tanzania, is Masai for "hunter and protector."

He and other ranchers argue that they've saved the antelopes because since 2005, they haven't had to abide by the Endangered Species Act, which imposes paperwork and accounting requirements, giving them the incentive to raise the animals for sport hunting.

"The hunting helps provide the revenue that allows us to purchase these species and feed them," Reid said.

The issue that nonhunters don't see, he said, is that the animals' economic value plummets when there are federal controls. If ranchers aren't free to dictate the terms of an antelope hunt, they'll simply shift to other animals.

And that's the core of the ranchers' argument: The value of the animals, which hunters prize for their rarity and beautiful horns, increased because they were not restricted by the Endangered Species Act. As a result, the market incentive enlarged the herd.

"The rule change has damaged the species," said Charly Seale, the executive director of the Exotic Wildlife Association in Ingram, which represents breeders and ranchers with exotic livestock. "Hunting pays for and propagated and promoted these species."

Animal rights activists counter that conservation doesn't mean raising an animal to kill it and put its head on the wall. "A Texas game ranch is not an ecosystem wherein animals are protected," said Priscilla Feral, the president of Friends of Animals, which sued the government to force the rule change on the African antelopes. "They're a commercial product."

And therein lies the philosophical divide over conservation: Ranchers argue that the economics have saved the antelopes, while animal rights activists see sport hunting as destructive, even if it's connected to an increase in the population of endangered animals.

"It's a canned hunt, and to call it an act of conservation is ridiculous," said Feral, who's working to return antelopes to reserves in Senegal. "I'd rather see them extinct in Texas than be shot by trophy hunters. They don't belong in Texas."

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/03/30 ... rylink=cpy

powerlifter54 wrote:i neither hunt nor own guns so this is no timpacting me, but what amazing is that in another article another hugger said she would rather see the animals extinct than be rasied on ranches.

Feral, who's working to return antelopes to reserves in Senegal. "I'd rather see them extinct in Texas than be shot by trophy hunters. They don't belong in Texas."

Blaidd Drwg wrote:Hunting and fishing advocacy are historically the strongest most ideologically consistent conservation movements in the US. That said, there is a big fat difference between preserving a single species and supporting a large biologically diverse habitat. One is the forest you remember as a kid, the other is a zoo.

BigBruvOfEnglandUK wrote:

powerlifter54 wrote:i neither hunt nor own guns so this is no timpacting me, but what amazing is that in another article another hugger said she would rather see the animals extinct than be rasied on ranches.

If you read the article that you posted, properly you will see that what this person actually said was...

Feral, who's working to return antelopes to reserves in Senegal. "I'd rather see them extinct in Texas than be shot by trophy hunters. They don't belong in Texas."

Testiclaw wrote:Still fucking unable to just say, "I fucked up".

Testiclaw wrote:Only when your dumbass is called out on it, and even then you half-ass it anyway.

I've cruised a lot of different forums and discussion sites over the years, and outside of the blatant trolls and paid shills, you have to be the DUMBEST motherfucker I've come across.

you revel in it's anonymity and safety it provides.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:That said, there is a big fat difference between preserving a single species and supporting a large biologically diverse habitat. One is the forest you remember as a kid, the other is a zoo.

"We bought the animals with our own money and they're telling us what to do with them. They are not anybody's animals but ours."

Terry B. wrote:

"We bought the animals with our own money and they're telling us what to do with them. They are not anybody's animals but ours."

Good luck with that argument, dude.

grip junky wrote:I would say that they have become a part of a bioogically diverse habitat on the huge ranches down in tx. For good or bad a lot of animals are making come backs because of sport hunting ranches here and all over Africa. Just about all African hunting is now done on ranches.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

grip junky wrote:I would say that they have become a part of a bioogically diverse habitat on the huge ranches down in tx. For good or bad a lot of animals are making come backs because of sport hunting ranches here and all over Africa. Just about all African hunting is now done on ranches.

Not really. they are zoo animals..not that there is anything wrong with that. Trophy hunting here or in Africa is fine by me but it's not the same thing substantively as preserving habit.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:i fuckin hate whales

grip junky wrote:How does stopping the hunts in Tx have anything to do with Habitiat preservation in Africa?

Blaidd Drwg wrote:and yes..Proto, I hate whales. I would like all native hunting privileges restored and see them hunted to total extinction.

powerlifter54 wrote:

BigBruvOfEnglandUK wrote:

powerlifter54 wrote:i neither hunt nor own guns so this is no timpacting me, but what amazing is that in another article another hugger said she would rather see the animals extinct than be rasied on ranches.

If you read the article that you posted, properly you will see that what this person actually said was...

Feral, who's working to return antelopes to reserves in Senegal. "I'd rather see them extinct in Texas than be shot by trophy hunters. They don't belong in Texas."

and who in Senegal or any other EBF is going to a better job than before on keeping them from becoming extinct?

BigBruvOfEnglandUK wrote:

powerlifter54 wrote:

BigBruvOfEnglandUK wrote:

powerlifter54 wrote:i neither hunt nor own guns so this is no timpacting me, but what amazing is that in another article another hugger said she would rather see the animals extinct than be rasied on ranches.

If you read the article that you posted, properly you will see that what this person actually said was...

Feral, who's working to return antelopes to reserves in Senegal. "I'd rather see them extinct in Texas than be shot by trophy hunters. They don't belong in Texas."

and who in Senegal or any other EBF is going to a better job than before on keeping them from becoming extinct?

I was just pointing out that you fucked up so why are you asking me this question?