Decided to try for PA or NP program--in the military

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:19 pm

I am finishing up my paramedic license by this summer and after some discussions with the head instructor of the program decided to attempt this in Fall 2013. My reasoning includes the standard : increased scope of practice, far better pay, actually using my BA even if it is just as a stepping stone, and wider field to work in.

At this point I will be getting the remaining prereqs out of the way that most PA programs require: organic chems and microbiology all with labs. I am currently looking at 2 campus programs (location would allow the inlaws to help with housing and such while in school): Mercer and Emory as well as researching various online/satellite options. Seeing as I have never applied to grad schools and there are a number of docs, medical professionals, and post grads on the board, I was wondering if any of you have any advice for making this a smooth process with a likelihood of me getting in and making the most out of this. I mean, GPA is over 3.5 right now and the remaining prereqs will only bolster that and I already have far more documented clinical/patient contact hours than the required number. I will be attempting to get hired on at the local ER once I get my medic license so that I have experience in psych, EMS, and ER for my resume.

Thank you in advance for any advices. Hecklers go fuck yourselves.

syaigh · Post by **syaigh** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:22 pm

Sounds like a sound plan. Good luck with it.

Visit the schools you're planning on attending and get as many contacts as possible. A recommendation from an individual familiar to the program you're interested in can't hurt and I have to think your experience as a paramedic would be quite advantageous.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:21 pm

In case you were interested in another option, the info on all the schools for becoming a licensed ND are here: http://www.aanmc.org/ If you care to discuss it further, message me.

I don't know if MCATs are required for PA school, at this point I would say that sounds like it should be your main concern (if it is required).

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:52 pm

What a duck says wrote:In case you were interested in another option, the info on all the schools for becoming a licensed ND are here: http://www.aanmc.org/ If you care to discuss it further, message me.

I don't know if MCATs are required for PA school, at this point I would say that sounds like it should be your main concern (if it is required).

What is your scope of practice as an ND?
If it takes 4 years to complete the degree+residency training, why not go to a regular medical or PT school?

Also, from the site:

While earning their degree, doctors of naturopathic medicine learn virtually all the modalities of proven natural therapies...

Clinical Nutrition
Botanical Medicine
Homeopathy
Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine
Lifestyle Counseling
Massage
Physical Medicine
Hydrotherapy

wut?

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:44 pm

Damien wrote:
What a duck says wrote:In case you were interested in another option, the info on all the schools for becoming a licensed ND are here: http://www.aanmc.org/ If you care to discuss it further, message me.

I don't know if MCATs are required for PA school, at this point I would say that sounds like it should be your main concern (if it is required).
What is your scope of practice as an ND?
If it takes 4 years to complete the degree+residency training, why not go to a regular medical or PT school?

Also, from the site:
While earning their degree, doctors of naturopathic medicine learn virtually all the modalities of proven natural therapies...

Clinical Nutrition
Botanical Medicine
Homeopathy
Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine
Lifestyle Counseling
Massage
Physical Medicine
Hydrotherapy
wut?

Scope depends on the state. In AZ where the scope is the largest in the country, I can do everything short of major surgery and oxycodone & up (not that minor surgery or delivering babies is something I care to do, but I could). I'm not getting into discussions of modalities on here, that's why I told Dunn to message me if he cared to, otherwise I was done mentioning/discussing it.

Not all NDs use all the modalities they learn in school either once they are out in practice. I was just informing him of another option. One guy who wanted to go to PA school and one woman who wanted to become a pharmacist both changed their minds once I told them about this option. I also have a good buddy ND who wants to go back to MD school and go into emergency medicine. Different strokes.

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:31 pm

My only issue with the ND path, which I find very interesting, is the time frame of 4 yrs versus the 2 yrs for most PA programs. The sooner I can get through this the sooner my wife and I can do the whole family thing.

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:40 pm

Does this mean you can prescribe test?

Pinky · Post by **Pinky** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:43 pm

Based on the little I know, a PA makes you a less expensive substitute for a general practice MD. That will likely put you in high demand.

You get a thumbs up from the labor economist.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:57 pm

Pinky wrote:Based on the little I know, a PA makes you a less expensive substitute for a general practice MD. That will likely put you in high demand.

This is absolutely true and the way insurance companies are going it will probably continue to grow. I see it at the medical office where I work.

I have thought about going back to become a cardiac PA. There is a good program very close to me (also in Penn.), but I really don't feel like going back to school at my age and already having a master's degree.

Worry about your pre-reqs and MCATs or whatever tests the program requires and the rest should go fine.

buckethead · Post by **buckethead** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:11 pm

Check with Kraj on if this is a worthy profession

CharlieBob · Post by **CharlieBob** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:26 pm

PA schools require the GRE, not MCAT.

If the only thing steering you towards PA vs other medical professions is the shorter time frame so you can start having a family then one thing to consider is a Military Scholarship. You can get one for MD/DO, nursing, or PA school and allows you to get paid an income through school vs going into debt, allowing you to start a family much quicker. Granted there is the military service after school, but depending on the length of the program and your personality that may or may not be a bad thing.

For the record this is exactly what I am doing. Almost done with my second year of medical school, was able to qualify and buy a house and am making enough such that my wife is only working part time while she incubates our first little one. Once it pops out she will stay home full time, money will be a little tight until residency but not impossible.

Granted the military is not for everyone, but it is an option to consider :)

Holland Oates · Post by **Holland Oates** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:33 pm

PA program is good. I considered the military option before the railroad called. Fort Sam Houston is awesome.

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:52 pm

protobuilder wrote:Does this mean you can prescribe test?

Yes. Yes I can.

EDIT: Don't consider the ND path if you want to have a job working for someone else. Jobs specifically for NDs are few and far between, you have to plan on being in practice for yourself (aka small business owner), which is definitely not for everyone.

SAR · Post by **SAR** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:00 pm

PAs are great. We're hiring 2 as we speak. They will: do procedures (lines, chest tubes, bronchs, etc) assist in surgery, join us in trauma evals in the ER, round in the ICU and floor, etc.

Certainly a good option as a career and much in demand

Mountebank · Post by **Mountebank** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:14 pm

If I could go back I probably would have done the military+school route. Fucking student loans of $100K+ suck.

Polo Tomasi · Post by **Polo Tomasi** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:28 pm

Good points all around, esp WGM.
For the record, I am a liscenced PA, and work part time at it. Another benefit of that route is that if you want to try a different field, you just find the job. I know, easier said than done, but at least you don't have to do a residency.
And from what I hear, salaries will be going up nationally.

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:27 pm

I am on the fence as to the military program. It sounds pretty decent but I am not a huge fan of the idea of deployments. The other option is to take out more loans and hoping we can squeeze by until I get finished.

Lots to consider and thanks for your input. Please continue.

Alfred_E._Neuman · Post by **Alfred_E._Neuman** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:42 pm

Good luck. I've been tossing around the idea of going back to school myself.

Just remember, if you go to Emory I live a couple of miles from their campus. We'll have to head to the best pub in the southeast and do some damage to their taps.

Crust Bucket · Post by **Crust Bucket** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:14 pm

Good luck with it Dunn!
Can't imagine what it would be like these days to go back to school with the loans and shit. I'm glad I'm done with it but kudos to you for looking to make a better life for you and your family.

The Crawdaddy · Post by **The Crawdaddy** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:33 pm

Dunn wrote:I am on the fence as to the military program. It sounds pretty decent but I am not a huge fan of the idea of deployments. The other option is to take out more loans and hoping we can squeeze by until I get finished.

Lots to consider and thanks for your input. Please continue.

The military option has its advantages, but you missed one other detail: you must reconcile the fact that your (real) job is to kill other people and or break their shit. If there's even a small part of you that thinks you might not be able to live with that if you were put in the situation, don't go there. Too many folks have found that out the hard way over the last decade, not a few of whom were close friends.

CharlieBob · Post by **CharlieBob** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:07 pm

The Crawdaddy wrote:
Dunn wrote:I am on the fence as to the military program. It sounds pretty decent but I am not a huge fan of the idea of deployments. The other option is to take out more loans and hoping we can squeeze by until I get finished.

Lots to consider and thanks for your input. Please continue.
The military option has its advantages, but you missed one other detail: you must reconcile the fact that your (real) job is to kill other people and or break their shit. If there's even a small part of you that thinks you might not be able to live with that if you were put in the situation, don't go there. Too many folks have found that out the hard way over the last decade, not a few of whom were close friends.

Other than combat medics health care providers in the military are not killing people or breaking shit. MD/DO, PA, NP are all providing care whether they are state side or down range. Doesn't mean you are totally immune from combat, in today's operational environment with suicide bombers and urban insurgency shit can go down just about anywhere downrange, but the medical officers are subjected to it much less than others.

I agree with the sentiment that if you don't have a desire to serve you should not sign up. A lot of people get blinded by dollar signs and end up disgruntled and bitter down the road, so it does take the right person with the right mindset. Medical training in the military also has its +/- to consider, but expecting to kill/break stuff is not one of them.

As far as deployments, they can happen and should be expected just so you are prepared. It does seem like our major wars abroad are winding down so who knows where we will be in 2-4 years, but if the possibility of a 6 month deployment is totally unbearable then that may be a major deterring factor.

Another forum with lots of good stuff on Military medicine, and all fields of healthcare: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:12 pm

I am pretty okay with the whole going to war idea my main issues being away from family for that long. I know it may sound silly but I have grown up in a military town and seen what long deployments can do to a family. 6 months isn't bad but Ive had buddies go over and stay 1.5 yrs or more. Again, not something I would enjoy but not unbearable by any measure especially if you have an understanding spouse.

My main concern about all of this is being able to afford the education and still be able to keep a roof over our heads. The idea of more loans is distasteful to say the least since I already have about $30k worth from my BA. Gotta weigh my options and talk to some folks.

CharlieBob · Post by **CharlieBob** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:22 pm

Dunn wrote:I am pretty okay with the whole going to war idea my main issues being away from family for that long. I know it may sound silly but I have grown up in a military town and seen what long deployments can do to a family. 6 months isn't bad but Ive had buddies go over and stay 1.5 yrs or more. Again, not something I would enjoy but not unbearable by any measure especially if you have an understanding spouse.

My main concern about all of this is being able to afford the education and still be able to keep a roof over our heads. The idea of more loans is distasteful to say the least since I already have about $30k worth from my BA. Gotta weigh my options and talk to some folks.

I understand completely. If it is any help with the wars winding down they are reducing health care providers deployment time to a max of 9 months in the Army last I heard. During the peak you could get stuck out there for >1 year, though it was not common to be out for that long.

Either way talk to your Mrs., check out the military med section of that other forum I posted, talk to friends/family and you will figure out what is best for you. If you have any questions feel free to shoot me a message.

judobrian · Post by **judobrian** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:33 am

If you go to work as a PA in the ED, you will be able to cover your loans in a reasonable period. You won't be responsible for overhead, nursing salaries, etc. Big advantage over going into an independent primary care practice. We just interviewed 7 PAs (or class of 2012 to-be graduates) for a position in the ED / Fast Track area - lot of demand for skilled PAs out there. I see it as a good upward move for an EMT-P.

Dunn · Post by **Dunn** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:35 pm

Thanks for all the replies and confirmations that this is a good choice. Looking at schools now and options for payment, including military. Gonna make a point to go talk to recruiters from each branch in the next 2 weeks.

IGX

Decided to try for PA or NP program--in the military

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