IGX

Hopefully I'm not the only one here that watched the two F-22 Raptor pilots, one captain and one major, on 60 Minutes last night? If so, then go to CBS.com and watch it then comment. They disobeyed a standing order not to comment publicly on the oxygen problem with the airplane. And just so you know, these aren't some disgruntled malcontents...one has a DFC. They are refusing to fly the plane. And they're not the only ones...just the only ones commenting publicly. There's supposedly been 11 "incidents" in the past 7 months. The major spoke of a persistent cough the pilots have that they all call the "raptor cough." There was a small piece of rhetoric I found interesting. Supposedly the Air Force's comment on the pilots refusal to fly has been something along the lines of..."military flying is inherently risky and dangerous." The major's response was yes, he understood and accepted that risk relative to his ability to assess that risk. He has no control over the oxygen delivery system. So they don't know if it's contaminated or what so they put a charcoal filter into the system only to find out later that the pilots are now caughing up black phlem...charcoal filter was breaking down and they were breathing particulate charcoal. The Air Force doesnt' want to ground the plane a second time because of the perceived PR backlash. Interesting stuff. They've got NASA and the Navy's diving research facility helping to try to solve the problem.

Didn't see it. I know the USAF engineers have been tearing this issue apart and haven't been able to find anything.

So 60 Minutes is still on TV? Have to watch the episode.

We had OBOGS in the Hornet. The pros were that since we didn't need LOX, and also that we didn't need a huffer start, we could land at almost any airport in the country, rather than just military bases. This allowed us the distinct pleasure of landing in Love Field with big tittied women in tight shorts parking us. Then they would let us use a convertible Mustang for the evening.

But I digress. The bad part was, like the Raptor guys, we had no fucking idea what we were breathing. It was a standing joke that the only system on the hornet that we couldn't describe was our breathing system.

Never had black phlegm, that I can remember. But there were days when you'd swear you were breathing JP-8

Matt, break that shit down a little bit more please. So your system on the 18 was similar? They showed a graphic on how the system works...it takes jet intake air and re-routes it through a system to the mask?

That's spot on, Shape. Of course, ours was 15 years ago so I'd like to think that they've come a long way since then, but....

It used to be that you breathed liquid Oxygen (LOX). This had some disadvantages. One, you had to fill up your LOX bottle, so it was another failure mode that maintenance had to continuously worry about. Second, and really kinda remote-but-serious was that pure oxygen is not good if there's a fire. Of course, rarely were there cockpit fires but Vietnam guys did like to smoke in the jet and they had to be careful. Of course they scared us in flight school about Vaseline on your lips catching fire spontaneously but I think that was rumor mill (we didn't have Snopes or Spells back then).

So OBOGS was the shit. Somehow it took intake air, sent it through a black box that filtered, concentrated, and whatever else to the air, and sent it to the masks. Seriously, I have no idea how it worked. No one did.

The U.S. Navy had a similar problem with its F-18s. There were 64 incidents from 2002 to 2009, resulting in two deaths. The navy found that the problem was carbon monoxide getting sucked into the aircraft air system (which the navy modified, eliminating the problem). The air force looked into the navy experience to see if there is anything similar going on with the F-22s. No luck. The air force has looked into a lot of potential causes, without a lot of success.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 20503.aspx

What about charcoal filtering anything? Like water and furnace filters for instance? Been wondering about that for a long time. Who knows maybe they'll realize one day that military pilots will accept the fact tha perfect spheres like bowling balls why and how really do fly!!

BucketHead wrote:So OBOGS was the shit. Somehow it took intake air, sent it through a black box that filtered, concentrated, and whatever else to the air, and sent it to the masks. Seriously, I have no idea how it worked. No one did.

Did they pine scent it or anything? Maybe a whiff of camomille before a night carrier landing?

Similar but different, I flew around with a 1 megawatt radar directly overhead. You could hold a pencil lightly against the metal fuselage and watch a miniature spark-fest every time the radar swept overhead. They started putting gold-plated windows on the plane, but it wasn't for the crew, it was for the electronics.

I'm a fighter pilot.

What's your question?

Have you ever ejected from a still flying plane?

protobuilder wrote:I'm a fighter pilot.

What's your question?

Is there anything we could say that would make you leave IGx permanently and / or top yourself?

Beer Jew wrote:Have you ever ejected from a still flying plane?

Good question. And the answer is, no, but I mean to.

Cool bro. Yo take some pictures if you do. Try to get some hot ass chicks in the picture if you can.

60 Minutes piece was interesting. I have a hard time believing the plane isnt grounded until the problem is solved. Going hypoxic while flying doesnt seem like a great idea. Several pilots were having problems/effects after flights. Dizziness, memory loss ect. One said he had no recollection of landing his plane...

protobuilder wrote:I'm a fighter pilot.

What's your question?

Obviously this is a term for some sick gay man-on-man act involving shit or you shitting on each other. Jesus Frodo, do you have any boundaries?

Listen up dirty bitches, don't be hijackin' my thread with Frodo hate...he's sick and disturbed and needs our help.

Shapecharge wrote:Hopefully I'm not the only one here that watched the two F-22 Raptor pilots, one captain and one major, on 60 Minutes last night? If so, then go to CBS.com and watch it then comment. They disobeyed a standing order not to comment publicly on the oxygen problem with the airplane. And just so you know, these aren't some disgruntled malcontents...one has a DFC. They are refusing to fly the plane. And they're not the only ones...just the only ones commenting publicly. There's supposedly been 11 "incidents" in the past 7 months. The major spoke of a persistent cough the pilots have that they all call the "raptor cough." There was a small piece of rhetoric I found interesting. Supposedly the Air Force's comment on the pilots refusal to fly has been something along the lines of..."military flying is inherently risky and dangerous." The major's response was yes, he understood and accepted that risk relative to his ability to assess that risk. He has no control over the oxygen delivery system. So they don't know if it's contaminated or what so they put a charcoal filter into the system only to find out later that the pilots are now caughing up black phlem...charcoal filter was breaking down and they were breathing particulate charcoal. The Air Force doesnt' want to ground the plane a second time because of the perceived PR backlash. Interesting stuff. They've got NASA and the Navy's diving research facility helping to try to solve the problem.

Being Air Force who knows. The humidifier on the golf carts or in the tanning beds could be set too high, or the aroma therapy at the Base Gym Zumba class could have been too musty. Don't know the Raptor issue, but if they went public, they are very pissed. The reality is once a weapons system gets into operational use you can no longer easily fix issues, you either have to update it from yearly programmed Operations and Maintenance Funding or you have to competitively seek funding for an upgrade to the system, competing with every other update on every other platform like yours. You can try to say your problem is a dire emergency and go to the front of that line for upgrade, but doing that is not smiled upon very much in or out of yourown service.


These two guys are junior so they have a purist view, and do not grasp the way it works. They have been very busy flying, purchasing new ribbon racks, and attending Joint Education classes to further their careers. They have not yet danced the Pentagon acquistion tango and are understandably pissed they are flying broken airplanes. They also have nothing to lose in many ways. So they laid their cards on the table and are all in to see if they can get the AF to fix this problem (if there is one).

powerlifter54 wrote: once a weapons system gets into operational use you can no longer easily fix issues,.

Same problems as when a Fire Department buys crappy fire engines.

They have been very busy flying

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lhg ... ed_States)
2 good reasons to listen to the pilots. The best and the brightest and all that right?

protobuilder wrote:I'm a fighter pilot.

What's your question?

Do you feel the need?

Seriously though, that's fucked up. I would think "make sure the pilot can breathe" would be a priority.

Think of the PR problems if one of these guys passes out and his plane turns into a F-22 Lawn Dart.

DARTH wrote:Think of the PR problems if one of these guys passes out and his plane turns into a F-22 Lawn Dart.

You just blame it on pilot error.

When confronting a similiar in seriousness but not of the same system problem a few years ago i was told essentially nobody has crashed yet and you don't have sufficeint data to show a problem. 9 months and 100+inflight failures later they still complained they didn't have the money to address. Publicly exposing the issue and hinting at the probable mishaps about to happen, along with the copy a letter of directions to my wife in event of a crash assignable to the known failed system got the ball rolling. 10 years later many still held a grudge. That is a why a kiss my ass sign up list is critical to doing your job.

Hopefully their actions gets something done.

They already did crash one in Alaska.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501363_162- ... ska-crash/