IGX

Blaidd Drwg wrote: Perhaps this one. Tell us all why the State has the Right and Duty tell me what I can ingest?

dead man walking wrote:

Blaidd Drwg wrote: Perhaps this one. Tell us all why the State has the Right and Duty tell me what I can ingest?

does the state have a right and duty to regulate what is sold to others for ingesting? that is, the duty to protect the public's health.

like pesticides on vegetables?
drugs that may be harmful?
or tobacco?

so if you want to drink malathion, drink away, but no one should be selling it for human consumption. if you want to smoke, it comes with warnings and buyers are limited to adults.

dead man walking wrote:if society can rule against the sale of dangerous substances, can a sports body do the same for its competitions?

so substances (like peds), if dangerous, could reasonably be prohibited, even if users were not subject to criminal penalties?

have i gone wrong in my thinking?

First you have a logical fallacy. Drugs are not "dangerous" in any real sense....

Associated Press

July 13, 2012, 3:20 p.m.

ANNONAY, France — David Millar, who describes himself as a reformed "ex-doper," won the longest stage of the Tour de France on Friday while British countryman Bradley Wiggins kept the yellow jersey as the race left the Alps.

Millar led a five-man breakaway in the 12th stage and said he hopes his ride helps fans believe that cyclists can win cleanly. . . .

After the finish, an exhausted Millar lay on the ground. Microphones and cameras hovered over him as he breathed heavily and put his forearm on his forehead.

Millar, while riding for French team Cofidis, was banned from cycling for two years in 2004 after admitting to use of banned blood booster EPO -- once the drug of choice for cycling cheats.

"I'm an ex-doper and I'm clean now, and I want to show everyone that it's possible to win clean on the Tour," Millar said.

dead man walking wrote:you're pissing on a heartwarming tale of redemption

syaigh wrote:Ever since I had the babies I have a hard time controlling my bladder.

Gorbachev wrote:

First you have a logical fallacy. Drugs are not "dangerous" in any real sense....

I guess Marion Jones, Marco Pantani and the others were just super-unlucky athletes then... Thanks for the amazing insight. You so wise. Me so horny.

dead man walking wrote:

Associated Press

July 13, 2012, 3:20 p.m.

ANNONAY, France — David Millar, who describes himself as a reformed "ex-doper," won the longest stage of the Tour de France on Friday while British countryman Bradley Wiggins kept the yellow jersey as the race left the Alps.

Millar led a five-man breakaway in the 12th stage and said he hopes his ride helps fans believe that cyclists can win cleanly. . . .

After the finish, an exhausted Millar lay on the ground. Microphones and cameras hovered over him as he breathed heavily and put his forearm on his forehead.

Millar, while riding for French team Cofidis, was banned from cycling for two years in 2004 after admitting to use of banned blood booster EPO -- once the drug of choice for cycling cheats.

"I'm an ex-doper and I'm clean now, and I want to show everyone that it's possible to win clean on the Tour," Millar said.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

dead man walking wrote:if society can rule against the sale of dangerous substances, can a sports body do the same for its competitions?

so substances (like peds), if dangerous, could reasonably be prohibited, even if users were not subject to criminal penalties?

have i gone wrong in my thinking?

First you have a logical fallacy. Drugs are not "dangerous" in any real sense, not in a statistically supportable way that automotive travel is or smoking or malnutrition,obesity, etc. PEDs used to excess without a Dr's supervision can be "dangerous" but like the issue of opiates etc, the risk is wildly overstated when administered by a med professional or an informed user. There are far more functional junkies in this country than anyone realizes.

Secondly a society may choose to any number of things, but it should not be permitted to do so. The war on drugs is the perfect example of a total misunderstanding of a nonexistent problem. As a matter of expediency, decriminalization/removal of penalties will result in less harm. A harm reduction model is infinitely superior to the current system...in both sport and society. If like minded persons want to police themselves (let's say usapl) that's fine, but to give an outside body legal authority after the fact is downright idiotic. i suggest we abandon the farce.

Yes. Sports can choose to prohibit PED's. but it is not to preserve health. In fact, to attempt sports like SM or Pro Cycling without ergogenics is downright unhealthy and for most people fruitless....Now,amatuers like us can enjoy the waste of time, but to play in the big leagues without "help" just shows that the person is not really doing what is needed to win.

Drug testing's only purpose is to address a perceived issue of "fairness" but in the case of sports where strength and endurance are premium qualities, fairness is moot. Access to the drugs is universal and the talent pool is freakishly deep.These are outliers among outliers. At the end of the day the war on steroids works as well as the one on Pot.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

dead man walking wrote:

Associated Press

July 13, 2012, 3:20 p.m.

ANNONAY, France — David Millar, who describes himself as a reformed "ex-doper," won the longest stage of the Tour de France on Friday while British countryman Bradley Wiggins kept the yellow jersey as the race left the Alps.

Millar led a five-man breakaway in the 12th stage and said he hopes his ride helps fans believe that cyclists can win cleanly. . . .

After the finish, an exhausted Millar lay on the ground. Microphones and cameras hovered over him as he breathed heavily and put his forearm on his forehead.

Millar, while riding for French team Cofidis, was banned from cycling for two years in 2004 after admitting to use of banned blood booster EPO -- once the drug of choice for cycling cheats.

"I'm an ex-doper and I'm clean now, and I want to show everyone that it's possible to win clean on the Tour," Millar said.

Millar has NO HOPE in the tour ...that's why he was allowed in the break in the first place..... (and he's still doping ..teehee..god bless him)

Seriously DMW, you need better back up. Gorby is has never been equal to a that wasn't filling diapers and the minds of youth with communist propaganda.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:You realize you are the only knob on here that believes this is an economic issue? In fact the ease with which you slither over into it being a social issue tells me your own consensual adult drug use undermines your belief in that crap argument.

There is nothing theoretical at all. I simply urge, as much of the first world is beginning to, that it's nonsense to prevent normative, consensual human behavior. Furthet, only in the most deluded moralistic view can this be labeled as "unhealthy" against the backdrop of something like professional sports, which is the very opposite of health.

I wouldn't for a second concede EPO killed Pantani; Professional Cycling, the farce of being "outed" as doing what every other racer does and the ensuing depression killed Pantani.

Blaidd Drwg wrote:

protobuilder wrote:Dick Pound?

Seriously?

No wonder he's pissed.

For realz...who can blame hime?

Me ...I blame him. He should have changed it.

In a new turn in the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency’s case against seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong, the agency is pushing back against an apparent move by the UCI to invoke jurisdiction in the investigation.

The New York Daily News reported on Friday that the UCI had requested that USADA hand over all documents related to the Armstrong investigation. A UCI letter dated July 13 was attached to a brief that USADA filed on Friday in U.S. District Court in Austin, Texas.

In that letter, UCI president Pat McQuaid informed USADA that, “The UCI wants that the whole case file with all the evidence is assessed by an independent panel who shall then decide if the respondents have a case to answer.”

USADA responded with its own letter, also attached to the August 3 brief, in which general counsel Bill Bock wrote that, “Many could legitimately contend that UCI’s involvement in the results management of the case would suffer from a structural concern sometimes referred to colloquially as ‘the fox guarding the henhouse.’

“In numerous instances the inability of a sports organization to effectively police doping within its sport has been noted.”

In the letter, Bock also wrote that the UCI had “adopt(ed) some of the arguments now being advanced by Mr. Armstrong’s lawyers and public relations consultants.”

A significant portion of the evidence cited by USADA in its June 12 charging letter against Armstrong and five others is understood to rely on blood values gathered during the Texan’s most recent comeback, which included third place in the 2009 Tour de France.

When contacted by VeloNews for comment on Friday, USADA chief Travis Tygart’s office responded with this statement:

“The USPS doping conspiracy was going on under the watch of UCI, so of course UCI and the participants in the conspiracy who cheated sport with dangerous performance enhancing drugs to win have a strong incentive to cover up what transpired. The participants in the conspiracy have lashed out in the press, gone to Congress and filed a lawsuit to avoid a public display of the evidence before neutral judges. Efforts to intimidate, scare or pressure us to conceal the truth will not stop us from doing the job we are mandated to do on behalf of clean athletes and the integrity of all sport. The participants of the USPS doping conspiracy made their decisions to use dangerous banned drugs to win and our job is to apply the rules whether someone is famous or anonymous and we will do that on behalf of the millions of people who demand clean sport despite these external pressures.”

Armstrong faces an August 13 deadline to respond to the USADA allegations. At that point, he can accept what could be up to a lifetime ban — the sanction handed three others in the case last month — or request arbitration, as his longtime team manager Johan Bruyneel has done.

On July 10, the Texan filed suit in the Austin District Court seeking to challenge USADA on the constitutionality of the agency’s sanctioning process.

Armstrong declined to enter USADA's arbitration process. "There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, 'Enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," Armstrong said in a statement sent to The Associated Press. He called the USADA investigation an "unconstitutional witch hunt."

"I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999," he said. "The toll this has taken on my family and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today -- finished with this nonsense."

USADA reacted quickly and treated Armstrong's decision as an admission of guilt, hanging the label of drug cheat on an athlete who was a hero to thousands for overcoming life-threatening testicular cancer and for his foundation's support for cancer research.

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency said Thursday night it will strip Lance Armstrong of his unprecedented seven Tour de France titles after he dropped his fight against drug charges that threatened his legacy as one of the greatest cyclists of all time.

Travis Tygart, USADA's chief executive, said Armstrong would also be hit with a lifetime ban on Friday. And under the World Anti-Doping Code, he would lose the bronze medal from the 2000 Olympics, as well as any awards, event titles and cash earnings.